The last statement in Hebrews 1:2... ‘and through whom he also made the ages’... certainly that seems like an ADDITION to support trinity.

It is a linguistically DISCONNECTED statement. It’s like saying:

• - ‘As your God, I’ve been speaking to you guys for ages but you’ve not been listening - so I’m sending a human ambassador to speak my words - he will BE my word to you.., he will say and do exactly what I command him to do - a PERFECT SON - ‘listen to him because I am well pleased with him. He has become to me, a Son, and I to him, a Father’. And, oh, by the way, it was him who spilt the goats milk that Mary was going to use to make cheese with’

What is the link between the two blocks of statements... NONE!!!

And I see the same thing in Hebrews 1:2. I see NO LINK not any purpose for it EXCEPT as AN ILLEGAL SPURIOUS ADDITION to try to support a trinity ideology.

And why, if trinity is true, are there so many FALSE IDEOLOGIES surrounding its belief?

Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of presentation:

Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God (the Father) Created the heaven (Hebrew - Air) and the Earth (Hebrew -Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

God doesn't tell us exactly in the Bible that He created/made everything from nothing (ex-nihilo). Here’s what He told us which agrees with Albert Einstein's discoveries 2k years later:

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God (the Father), so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Albert Einstein learned that energy and matter are opposite sides of the same coin. God simply flipped energy into matter in the beginning - BUT WITHOUT FORM AND VOID.

The Son of God who was at the bosom of the invisible Almighty God Father before the Making of our Physical Worlds in the Beginning, came forth into the Physical World from the invisible Spirit of his Father, when God, the Father, commanded and spoke the first Word in the Beginning and said, “Let there be Light; and there was light” (Gen 1:3).

God knew that in order for Darkness or Death to be defeated, He would have to send his only begotten Son into our physical world to give light/life and to mold the FORMLESS Earth / Ground (like Dust)... and destroy the darkness/death which was upon everything God had created APART from his invisible spiritual realm.

The emergence of the True Light was when YHWH, the Son of God, came forth or begotten from the invisible Spirit of God into the physical world - when He commanded and spoke the first Word in the beginning and said… Let there be light; and there was light. (Gen 1:3)… before anything is made that was made… before the world was.

WHERE did this invisible energy come from?. Based on the cited Scripture below is the answer, for it tells us where God lives:

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Then, on the 3rd Day, YHWH or Jesus, the Son of God, took some of this physical matters - air, dust, and water - and flipped it again into Energy, at the Big Bang, which cooled and became our Cosmos.

That's the way the Supreme Intelligence of Creation makes our worlds.

God bless

Ephesians 1:9 " And to make ALL MEN see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, WHO CREATED ALL THINGS BY Jesus Christ."

God speaks and that force that causes the light to come into existence is in the bosom of the Father, therefore; it is a part of God, but not God.

it is important to understand that the culmination of Gods plan (WORD) is the reconciliation of ALL MEN as demonstrated by;

1 Co 15:25 " For he must reign, till he hath put ALL ENEMIES under his feet. 26- THE LAST ENEMY THAT SHALL BE DESTROYED IS DEATH."

At the culmination of the reconciliation there is not one that is DEAD as ALL have been MADE ALIVE in Christ. Thus death is no longer an enemy and has been destroyed.
I'm sure there is not a single true Christian that would in any way suggest that your salvation was of your choosing? As we all know it was God who showed mercy and
gave us the faith to believe and then sealed us with the Holy Ghost which also enlivened (Quickened) us. So it is he who decides although he will let you think you had something to do with it, you really did not.
That said is there anyone that can say that someone else does not DESERVE that same grace that was shown to you? After all GOD IS LOVE.

1 Co 15:22 "For as in Adam ALL DIE, even so IN CHRIST shall ALL BE MADE ALIVE." This is when death is no longer an enemy of the Lords.
1 Co 15:23 "But EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER.............. This would be the election process in time that God chooses to show mercy to ALL MEN eventually and they become quickened as you were.

I think we can all relate to the fact that persecution arises from man and is inflicted upon us? We require this in order to become more like our Father and grow in LOVE.
This is why men are slowly elected because those vessels fitted to dishonor are necessary for your perfecting. And you also partook, as Paul, of this same dishonor. This is the MYSTERY OF INIQUITY. (i.e. why iniquity exists.)

Now why would God go thorough such trouble? Could it be possible that the WORD of GOD that resides in the bosom of the Father was comprised of more than
one spirit? We can all agree that the spirit of the Lord Jesus came out from the Father, but what about yours? Does he not call us his brethren? How can that be unless he knew us before we were placed in our earthen vessels? And why would he LOVE US and die for us if he did not know us before? Or could it be that we always existed as part of God, with him, similar to the RIB of Adam that was used to make his mate Eve. The rib contained all the genetic material necessary to make the body of Eve. As the Spiritual rib of God would contain all the spirits used to make living souls (men).

Ephesians 1:4 " According as HE HATH CHOSEN US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."
Psalms 22:22 " I will declare thy name UNTO MY BRETHREN: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee."
Psalms 82:6 " I have said ye are gods and ALL OF YOU ARE CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH."

Who composes US? Is it ALL that have become man? Or ALL except Jesus?

Hebrews 2:17 " Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto HIS BRETHREN, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God.

Is it possible that the spirit of the Man Jesus was NOT THE ONLY SPIRIT IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER?
To be clear Jesus was the only man born of a woman without the curses of Eden, therefore the rest of us brethren were separated from God spiritually around our birth into this world. He was not, as he always knew who his true Father was, we never did until he told us and God eventually showed us.

This mystery has been hidden from the world in God since the beginning of the creation as stated at the top of the post. So why would it ever be revealed unless he wanted you to know who you once were? A part of the WORD of God that caused what came into being as he spoke the words. This may upset some but be reminded that the one who is preferred above all HIS FELLOWS is always the ONE THAT GETS THE CREDIT as he is the one in charge and over all the rest before man, and as Sons. His position to God never changed but he did. As he BECAME A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT which he was not prior to his becoming a man. He was one of US, And it was his joy to fulfill his Fathers will to bring the rest of his brethren to the same glory he achieved. But EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER and only God knows the order.

Alright, like I once told you Samson2020, you heavy man!

Samson2020 said:

Ephesians 1:9 " And to make ALL MEN see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, WHO CREATED ALL THINGS BY Jesus Christ."

God speaks and that force that causes the light to come into existence is in the bosom of the Father, therefore; it is a part of God, but not God.

it is important to understand that the culmination of Gods plan (WORD) is the reconciliation of ALL MEN as demonstrated by;

1 Co 15:25 " For he must reign, till he hath put ALL ENEMIES under his feet. 26- THE LAST ENEMY THAT SHALL BE DESTROYED IS DEATH."

Click to expand...

Note: Insertions are mine for presentation.

As I have posted before, the Son of God was at the bosom of the invisible Almighty God Father (Jhn 1:18) before the Making of our Physical Worlds in the Beginning - LITERALLY speaking. YHWH or Jesus, the Son of God, came forth/begotten into the Physical World from the invisible Spirit of the Father, when God commanded and spoke the "Word" in the Beginning and said, “Let there be Light; and there was light” (Gen 1:3).

The Light which came into the physical world on the first Day was Jesus himself, the True Light that shineth in Heaven in the beginning (Jhn 1:9-10). Jesus provided the Light for in the first 3 Days of Genesis (Alpha) and will also be the one to provide the Light in the End (Omega) - Rev 21:23. His Image as our Only Physical God is Brighter than the Noonday Sun- Act 22:6

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses (eye witnesses), saith the LORD (YHWH), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was No God Formed, neither shall there be after me.

To be witnessed is to be seen or experience physically by others. He was Not Created, since, He was already God himself from the Beginning; from Everlasting. Thus, YHWH or Jesus, the Son, became known as the Express Image of the invisible Almighty God Father, bodily or physically - the first born of every Creature …. the only God ever physically formed for us to see and witness. Before him there was none, neither there shall be after him.

Note: The Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit- the Spirit of Love - without any physical shape or form that no man hath seen at any time and changes not.

God bless

Seve said:

YHWH or Jesus, the Son, became known as the Express Image of the invisible Almighty God Father, bodily or physically

Click to expand...

So then you suggest that he was more than a man while on earth?

Note: Insertions are mine for presentation:

Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God Created the heaven (Hebrew - Air) and the Earth (Hebrew -Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements.The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Scriptures were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

Thus, Genesis 1:1 begins by telling us that the 3 elements created BEFORE the first Day - It was Air, Dust, and Water. YHWH, the Son of God, took some of the air, dust, and water and made the firmament of heaven of Adam's World on the 2nd Day. And at the beginning of the 3rd Day, Jesus took these three matters and changed it again into energy by causing a Singularity. Exactly as YHWH or Jesus knew it would, matter inflated from the Black hole made by the first of the first Huge Stars to implode and become a Singularity which produced other Universes.

Millions of years later, the Universe had cooled enough to become visible. Genesis 2:4 gives us the Day this Big Bang happened. It was the 3rd Day the SAME Day the first Earth was made, which was the 3rd Day according to Genesis 1:9-10.

God also got the FACT right that Stars didn't shine until the 4th Day, which was millions of years AFTER the Big Bang. This is a recent scientific discovery. There is NO way any ancient man Moses could have possibly known this.

It's proof of our Awesome God.

JustAskin said:

Heb 1:2 has at the end of these days spoken to us through a Son, who is the pre-destined Lord of the universe, and through whom He made the Ages.

How is it said that ‘Jesus created all things’ yet here it says ‘the Father created all things’.

And elsewhere it says that [the created world] was created BY HIM and FOR HIM?

And furthermore, there are absolute statements that ‘God’ and the Father, created all things...

Does linguistics and common sense not determine that all these CANNOT all be true. That the common theme is that it is THE FATHER who created all things.

After all, what does ‘FATHER’ mean:

• ‘He who CREATES’
• ‘He who BRINGS INTO BEING’
• ...

Which part of the definition of ‘Son’ implies ‘creator’?

And if the world was created ‘FOR HIM’, how could it be created ‘BY HIM’...!!!

And isn’t it reality that Jesus BECOMES king over Creation at the end of time, ruling on the throne of his forefather, King David!

For sure, no one ACQUIRES what he himself CREATES... it is HIS to give to whom he pleases....

Oh dear, where have you heard those words spoken before??? (hint: temptation!!)

Can I ask you to comment on the LOGISTICS of who the creator is... in line with trinity ideology and in line with REALITY and truth, and to avoid simply posting verses with no linking context nor explanations.

Click to expand...

The trick is not that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. The trick is that God humbled Himself and became obedient unto death.

Marilynn said:

The trick is that God humbled Himself and became obedient unto death.

Click to expand...

God cannot die. The law was written for a man to fulfill thats why he sent his SON to do it as a MAN. In that scenario you present God only changed his name to Jesus and had a split personality the whole ministry. The Father is greater than I but I'm really speaking of myself???? He became obedient unto death. Obedient to himself???? MY Go MY God why hast THOU forsaken me? O wait I forsook myself??? The LORD said to my Lord...... wait David must have had double vision that day??? According to the Bible if we believe in our heart that GOD hath raised Jesus from the dead then we shall be saved. Your presentation is completely opposite of this main stay of salvation and antichrist speech according to 1 John 4:2-3 You should read the first 3 or so verses of each New Testament book and SEE that the authors separated God from his Son every single time, thus they knew he (Jesus) was NOT GOD his Father.
Just don't float. Especially in light of the fact that no man hath seen God, but they did see Jesus who according to Peter and John was a man. And in presenting him as anything more than a humble servant MAN that fulfilled the Law cheapens and degrades the impossibility of fulfilling the Law by any other MAN than himself.
For by MAN came death, by MAN also came the resurrection of the dead.
Acts 2:22 "...... Jesus of Nazareth A MAN approved of God..............."

Samson2020 said:

God cannot die. The law was written for a man to fulfill thats why he sent his SON to do it as a MAN. In that scenario you present God only changed his name to Jesus and had a split personality the whole ministry. The Father is greater than I but I'm really speaking of myself???? He became obedient unto death. Obedient to himself???? MY Go MY God why hast THOU forsaken me? O wait I forsook myself??? The LORD said to my Lord...... wait David must have had double vision that day??? According to the Bible if we believe in our heart that GOD hath raised Jesus from the dead then we shall be saved. Your presentation is completely opposite of this main stay of salvation and antichrist speech according to 1 John 4:2-3 You should read the first 3 or so verses of each New Testament book and SEE that the authors separated God from his Son every single time, thus they knew he (Jesus) was NOT GOD his Father.
Just don't float. Especially in light of the fact that no man hath seen God, but they did see Jesus who according to Peter and John was a man. And in presenting him as anything more than a humble servant MAN that fulfilled the Law cheapens and degrades the impossibility of fulfilling the Law by any other MAN than himself.
For by MAN came death, by MAN also came the resurrection of the dead.
Acts 2:22 "...... Jesus of Nazareth A MAN approved of God..............."

Click to expand...

Neighbor, everyone one of us can see perfectly well, every single verse that makes you think Jesus is a mere man. (And even your logic.) The great mystery is, your inability to see at all, a single one of the verses, that make us think/know He is God.

Marilynn said:

Neighbor, everyone one of us can see perfectly well, every single verse that makes you think Jesus is a mere man. (And even your logic.) The great mystery is, your inability to see at all, a single one of the verses, that make us think/know He is God.

Click to expand...

All I can say is that He never said he was God, but he did say he was the SON OF GOD. I will believe him and not you. Thanks anyway for your unsupported theology.

Samson2020 said:

So in saying this he was obedient to himself and when he hung on the cross and cried out MY God MY God why hast thou forsaken me? He was talking to himself?
When he told Mary that he was ascending to HIS FATHER and OUR FATHER and HIS GOD and OUR GOD, he was ascending to himself?
He would have therefore raised himself from the dead as well according to your thesis? And obedient unto himself and not his Father???????

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN APPROVED OF GOD among you......
John 1:18 NO MAN hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, hath declared him.

In saying what you say it makes Jesus more than just a man (last Adam, perfect man) he, as a man never saw God himself according to these 2 verses, but by faith obeyed
his Fathers will and was crucified for the sin of the world. To make him more than a MAN cheapens, and diminishes his accomplishment in fulfilling the Law as it was written specifically for man, not God.
What you espouse it that Jesus was God and that is Antichrist spirit speech according to 1 John 4:2-3
You need to check your understanding as it is contrary to scripture.

YHWH is the Father the One True God
Yeshua is the name of Jesus in Hebrew
These TWO are what Stephen saw while he was being stoned to death. Not ONE.

Pretty much every book Paul wrote along with the other writers of the new testament introduces their letter by saying

"Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, AND FROM OUR Lord Jesus Christ." thus indicating 2 entities not one.

I cannot for the life of me understand how people read the Bible and come to the conclusion that they are the same being given all the verses that show they were not the same entity. As the writers were there, we were not, I would have to give them precedence over whatever mystically interpreted scripture has been picked out of the air to deny the MANHOOD OF THE only begotten Son.

Jesus was not and is not God, his own Father, he was a man that was delcared to be a God by his Father because of what he did. Thus becoming the express Image of God.

Like Father Like Son.

Click to expand...

The Son of God physically EXISTED - even BEFORE the World was - SEPARATELY from the invisible God Father when He was brought forth or BEGOTTEN - from the BOSOM of the Invisible Spirit of the Father (Jhn 1:18) and sent into our physical world in the beginning of Genesis, when God commanded and said, "LET THERE BE LIGHT; and there was light." Gen. 1:3

The brightness of the glory of the Lord God (the Son) provided the light in the beginning (alpha) as he would also be the one to provide the light in the end (omega).

It is also Biblical fact that the invisible Almighty God Father has its OWN SELF BEING separate from the Son - even before the world was. Here’s what the Son said during the time he was praying to his Father before his physical death on the cross in the New Testament.

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The Son is reminding his invisible God Father of the Brightness of his Glory - a physical trait - that he shared with the Father even BEFORE the world was.

Thus, YHWH or Jehovah, the Son, became the only God physically formed for us to see and witness - before there was none; neither there shall be after him. He was NOT created since He was God himself in the beginning; from everlasting. Below is what our Lord YHWH, the Son of God, proclaimed / testified to His chosen people during the OT.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses (eye witnesses), saith the LORD (YHWH), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was No God Formed, neither shall there be after me.

Note: The Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit- the Spirit of Love - is without any Physical shape or form that no man hath seen at any time and changes not. - whose Real Name is NOT yet reveal to anyone at this time.

P.S. Insertions are mine for presentation



God Bless

The Son ogf God was AGAIN sent into our world and MADE FLESH to die for us and save us from our sins during the New Testament.

Heb 1
v4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
v5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? AND AGAIN, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
v1:6 AND AGAIN, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Why do we suppose the words "AND AGAIN" are used repeatedly or emphasized 2x in the text? Let's continue reading...

v1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and "the heavens are the works of thine hands:

I see.. the Son was brought forth or begotten into this world the 1st time when He provided the True Light in the Beginning (Gen 1:3).... and made our physical world. He was again sent into this world; born of the Virgin Mary; made flesh, and die for us to save us form our sins...

v1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Conclusion: YHWH is the Christ himself, the Son of the invisible Almighty God Father - whose name is NOT yet known nor revealed to anyone at this time.

God Bless

Seve said:

, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Click to expand...

What did he inherit that was not already his if he was God?

Seve said:

Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?

Click to expand...

This day have I begotten thee, would be when the Holy Ghost joined with the egg of Mary to form his body.

Seve said:

AND AGAIN

Click to expand...

This is the way the writer was saying and what about this as well. Proving the original point that he was the SON

Seve said:

when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Click to expand...

And this occurred at his natural birth in the manger in Bethlehem.

Rightly divide the word. Hebrews was written way after his death and resurrection and GLORIFICATION. NOT BEFORE.

Marilynn said:

Because who else in the world doesn't know that Jesus is God. I mean, even dam Catholics, who are totally evil, admit that Jesus is God.

Click to expand...

Marilynn said:

The heretics like Samson2020 and JustAskin, are just put here for us to be distinguished from the like, as Scripture tells us.

Click to expand...

David. I would ask you why you post under a WOMANS NAME but I think I already know. Quite deceitful indeed. I see the wrath of God is eating you up, so I will respond no further as I do not want to add to the agony you seem to be suffering.

2 Cor 4:4 ; in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:10; He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Col 2:8; See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Tit 2:13; looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

2Pet 1:1; Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Isa 9:6; For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Matt 1:23; "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

John 5:18; For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 10:30; "I and the Father are one."

Psa 49:7; No man can by any means redeem his brother Or give to God a ransom for him—
Psa 49:8; For the redemption of his soul is costly, And he should cease trying forever—
Psa 49:15; But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, For He will receive me. Selah.

Tit 2:14; who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.