Predestined?
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Some. She doesn't have the desire to dig as deeply into things as I do. She is often hesitant when I bring something new. However, once she sees the argument laid out she usually agrees.
Butch5
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Sure. I'm happy to discuss them with anyone. I belong to a group of people who go deeply into the Scripture. They put out audios and videos that go into much more depth than I can go into on a forum. On forums I can only touch on subjects, they go into hours sometimes days on a particular subject.
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You are a spirit being, you have a soul, and you live in a body. You are made in the image of God and after His likeness. That equals "one" person. God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = "one" God.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Ok. I guess what I'm trying to understand is your thinking on what God Is. Is God a person? If so, then there are four persons, right? The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and the composite God. If not, and the three persons are God. Then what is God? What is it that the three persons are?
I don't believe I'm a spirit being. Moses recorded the creation of man and he said that God created man from the dust of the earth. So, I'm dust. God told Adam after he ate from the Tree of Knowledge, that he was dust and to dust he would return. So, It seems Adam was dust. Moses went on to write that God breathed His breath/spirit, same word, of life into the man. Then He records a transformation, the man became a living soul. So, I believe I am a living soul that consists of dust, the elements of the earth, which has been infused with the breath/spirit of God.
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Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
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Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
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Mans "spirit" was "created", but his "body" was formed out of existing material.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
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Yes, the body without the breath/spirit of life from God is dead. In Ecc 12 we are told that it returns to God.
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But I don't see anything in Scripture that speaks of a spirit that is man. I see only one spirit in man and it's the breath/spirit of life from God.
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When the spirit of man returns back to God what do you think he does with it?
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
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1Co 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Zec 12:1 The oracle of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:
If a person does not have a spirit they are dead, and that spirit returns back to God, and then judgement.
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These are qualities of God, I agree. I'm wondering what the three persons make up.
This one of the reasons I eventually rejected this doctrine. I couldn't answer this question. If God is a being, most Christians refer to God as He, then how do three persons make a fourth being? That didn't make sense to me. A lot of Christians say one God but no one seems to be able to explain it. I couldn't. A lot of people will say, well maybe we just can't understand some things about God. I could accept that if the Bible said that God consisted of three persons, but it doesn't. People infer that idea because the Bible refer to the Father and the Son as God. When I studied the early Christians it became clear. Tertullian is the guy who is credited with terming the phrase Trinity in regards to God. However, his explanation was different than what we hear today. He said the Father and the Son are two separate beings. So, it wasn't three persons in one God being. It was two different beings. The Nicene Creed and Jesus' words also helped explain it. In the Nicene Creed it says of Jesus that He is 'God of God'. In the Greek text it literally reads, 'God out of God' So, it seems the Son came out of the Father. This is confirmed by Jesus in John 8:42 where He says He came out of God. So now we have two being made of the same thing. Whatever God is His Son is the same. The word "God" itself is simply a title. It means Deity. It's also used of false gods like Baal and Moloch. I think it's easy to see how Jesus and the Father could be two different beings or persons and both be Deity or God.
But then there is the One God issue. I think this is understood in the order of authority. Paul said to the Corinthians, to us there is one God, the Father. How is there one God the Father when the Scriptures call Jesus God? It's authority. The Father is the ultimate authority. He is over all. There is none higher than the Father. Not even Jesus is higher than the Father. Even Jesus calls the Father, 'the one true God'. Is Jesus saying that He is not God? I don't think so. I think by using the word 'true' He's acknowledging that the ultimate God is the Father.
That's how I understand it. It makes sense of all of the issues without having a bunch of loose ends that can't be explained.
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I imagine He keeps it. We're not really told. I do know that He will put it in man again at the resurrection.
I believe this verse is talking about the judgment at the resurrection, or the final judgment. If as I say man is not a spirit being then when he dies he is dead until the resurrection and couldn't be judged unless he was judged while dead. However, I believe the whole reason for resurrecting the wicked is for judgment.
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Yes, everyone has the breath/spirit of life from God. But that's not the person. That's part of God. It's what animates the body, the person. Job says that its what gives man understanding.
8 But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding. (Job 32:8 NKJ)
In this verse the word spirit is ruach and the word breath is neshamah. They both mean wind or breath. The way the translators translate it the English reader sees two different words spirit and breath. In English these words have two completely different meanings. This is why I said these words should never be translated spirit. Let's translate them the same.
But there is a breath in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding.
The statement takes on a whole new meaning. Translated this way we see that the breath in man is the breath of the Almighty. The other way it seems like there are two different things being spoken of, a breath and a spirit. Yet, in actuality it is only one. This lines up with what we see in Genesis where God created the man and put His breath in man and the man became a living soul. Adam became animated when God breathed the breath of life into him and here we see Job saying that God's breath is what gives man understanding.
God created man from the dust of the earth -- breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living soul / person.
You're wondering about the Godhead / Trinity.
God is an entity -- a Spirit. He's God the Father.
There isn't a 4th being. God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit . Three beings in the One Godhead.
When a person is baptized -- it's in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Tertullian is not inspired Scripture. God is the Truth.
God's Word says .......
You're taking one passage John 8;42 " Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me." Your conclusions from that verse are a bit faulty.
You're taking a part of one verse and coming to a faulty conclusion. Take the entire passage and then the verse in that light.
God Did sent Jesus Christ into the world -- in the sense that 'we' needed a Savior -- and Jesus Christ His Son came to Be our Savior. The Holy Spirit part of the Godhead came upon the virgin Mary so that she could conceive and give Him birth. So Jesus Christ Did come from God. He was God incarnate.
But it's Not two beings made of the same thing. No one 'made' the trinity / Godhead . It's always Been.
You're wondering about the Godhead / Trinity.
God is an entity -- a Spirit. He's God the Father.
There isn't a 4th being. God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit . Three beings in the One Godhead.
When a person is baptized -- it's in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Tertullian is not inspired Scripture. God is the Truth.
God's Word says .......
You're taking one passage John 8;42 " Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me." Your conclusions from that verse are a bit faulty.
You're taking a part of one verse and coming to a faulty conclusion. Take the entire passage and then the verse in that light.
God Did sent Jesus Christ into the world -- in the sense that 'we' needed a Savior -- and Jesus Christ His Son came to Be our Savior. The Holy Spirit part of the Godhead came upon the virgin Mary so that she could conceive and give Him birth. So Jesus Christ Did come from God. He was God incarnate.
But it's Not two beings made of the same thing. No one 'made' the trinity / Godhead . It's always Been.
When a person dies, the body gradually deteriorates -- eventually it goes back to skeletal form. The bone stays on. Well -- unless there's an explosion and the body is blown to bits. The spirit goes into eternity either in Hadees to wait for the final judgement or is with Jesus Christ immediately.
A person does experience physical death only once.
Eve was taken from one of Adam's ribs -- she is the mother of all people. So apparently that is why we return to bone / skeleton rather than back to original dust of the ground.
God is a Spirit 'being'. We're not spirits -- we Are human beings With a spirit / soul.
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No, a person dies physically twice if they are cast into the Lake of Fire. No one spends eternity in Hades, Hades is thrown into the Lake of Fire. And, no people don't immediately go to be with the Lord. That's not stated anywhere in Scripture.
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Tertullian wasn't inspired, but neither is anyone of us. He was however, much closer to the events in question and has a lot less false teaching to wade through. And since he is the one who coined the term his input is valuable.
No, I didn't take part of a verse. I gave the Nicene Creed in addition to Jesus' own words. Call me crazy, but I think Jesus may have known where He came from. Yes, it is two beings. Jesus and the Father are not the same being. Two beings cannot be one being. It doesn't work.
