The Prince of Persia

B-A-C · Nov 23, 2019

No... not the video game. :smile:

This is mostly from Daniel 10.

Dan 10:1; In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a message was revealed to Daniel, who was named Belteshazzar; and the message was true and one of great conflict, but he understood the message and had an understanding of the vision.
Dan 10:2; In those days, I, Daniel, had been mourning for three entire weeks.
Dan 10:3; I did not eat any tasty food, nor did meat or wine enter my mouth, nor did I use any ointment at all until the entire three weeks were completed.
Dan 10:4; On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, while I was by the bank of the great river, that is, the Tigris,
Dan 10:5; I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz.
Dan 10:6; His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.
Dan 10:7; Now I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, while the men who were with me did not see the vision; nevertheless, a great dread fell on them, and they ran away to hide themselves.
Dan 10:8; So I was left alone and saw this great vision; yet no strength was left in me, for my natural color turned to a deathly pallor, and I retained no strength.
Dan 10:9; But I heard the sound of his words; and as soon as I heard the sound of his words, I fell into a deep sleep on my face, with my face to the ground.
Dan 10:10; Then behold, a hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees.
Dan 10:11; He said to me, "O Daniel, man of high esteem, understand the words that I am about to tell you and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you." And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood up trembling.
Dan 10:12; Then he said to me, "Do not be afraid, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart on understanding this and on humbling yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to your words.
Dan 10:13; "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.
Dan 10:14; "Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to the days yet future."

There is a lot here. But Daniel is in mourning for 3 weeks. (verse 2 ). He has also been fasting for 3 weeks. (verse 3 )
This causes me to wonder. Have you ever sought a word or vision from God, but felt like He wasn't answering you? Have you tried fasting? I don't know that it's always necessary, but it worked for Daniel.

On what we would call January 24th (verse 4 ) a "certain man" comes to visit Daniel. This phrase is a little misleading. This isn't really a "man". Verse 5 gives a description of the man.
His body looks like polished rock (beryl), his face is like lightning, his eyes are like torches, his arms are like polished bronze, and his words sounded like a battle. Now it seems this was really a vision, but even so...
Daniel waited for 21 days for this vision. In verse 10 its says "a hand touched me". So was it just a vision or a physical manifestation? In any case the man tells Daniel... I headed to see you and answer you on the
first day of your mourning and fasting. But the reason I am just now getting here, is because I was delayed by "the prince of the kingdom of Persia".

The thought here is... This is an angel. Why did Daniel fast? Did God tell him to? It doesn't say that God did, but Daniel persisted in fasting until he got an answer.
This angel tried to see Daniel 21 days earlier... but the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding him. We know that there was real person, who was real king here. Cyrus of Persia is in a lot of secular history.
But it seems the prince of Persia is a spiritual being. Likely a fallen angel. So these two angels have been fighting for 21 days. while Daniel was fasting. It seems his fasting was also part of the spiritual warfare here.
Who/what was this prince of Persia? If this man was an angel, then it could not have been a human person preventing him from visiting Daniel.

Then it speaks of Michael.... "one of the chief princes". In Jude 1:9; Michael is called an arch-angel. In Revelation 12:7; it says Michael "and his angels" are having a war with Satan "and his angels".
Almost like two generals with their armies warring against each other. There is a lot of speculation about when Revelation 12:7; happens... some say it already happened. Some say it will happen in the future,
and most say it is both. It already happened, but will happen again. In any case... Michael comes to aid this angel, so he can finally visit Daniel.
In verse 13 it says "I had been left there with the kings of Persia". In this context... it seems the "kings of Persia" are spiritual beings. Probably fallen angels.

In verse 14 the angels is finally able to speak to Daniel about future (last days) events that will happen. (The next two chapters of Daniel are about this).

But why are these beings (presumably fallen angels) called princes and kings of Persia? Is there a hierarchy of fallen angels? Are some princes? Are some kings? Why Persia? Are they given dominion over
certain Earthly cities, counties, states, provinces, or countries?

... to be continued ...

B-A-C · Nov 23, 2019

In Ezekiel 28, we have a similar passage. This is consider a parallel allegory by most Bible scholars... this just means it's talking about two things or two people at the same time.

Ezek 28:12; "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Ezek 28:13; "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezek 28:14; "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15; "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezek 28:16; "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:17; "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.
Ezek 28:18; "By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you.

This person is called "the king or Tyre". Now of course really really were several kings of Tyre in secular history. But this being doesn't appear to be a human either.
This person was in the garden of Eden ( a couple thousand years earlier, even in you believe in the young Earth time-line ). Like the being in Daniel 10. This being is covered by precious stones.. one of them is beryl.
It says God placed this being in the garden of Eden. ( verses 13 and 14 ) It seems this being was originally a good cherub (angel).. blameless.
But this being sinned and was cast out by God. One interesting thing here.... In verse 13 it says "On the day you were created". So we know angels are created beings just like the rest of us.

But why is this being called "the king of Tyre". There are a couple other places in the Bible similar to this. In fact Satan is called the "god of this world". ( 2 Cor 4:4; ) and the prince of the powers of the air. ( Eph 2:2; )
But the question remains.. why are they called kings and princes over Earthly territories?

.. to be continued ..

B-A-C · Nov 23, 2019

In Isaiah 14, we see yet another similar passage. There is much debate over whether this is Satan or not. In any case... we have someone called "the king of Babylon".
There were of course many earthly kings of Babylon... but this one is seemingly different.

Isa 14:4; that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say, "How the oppressor has ceased, And how fury has ceased!
Isa 14:5; "The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked, The scepter of rulers
Isa 14:6; Which used to strike the peoples in fury with unceasing strokes, Which subdued the nations in anger with unrestrained persecution.
Isa 14:7; "The whole earth is at rest and is quiet; They break forth into shouts of joy.
Isa 14:8; "Even the cypress trees rejoice over you, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, 'Since you were laid low, no tree cutter comes up against us.'
Isa 14:9; "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Isa 14:10; "They will all respond and say to you, 'Even you have been made weak as we, You have become like us.
Isa 14:11; 'Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.'
Isa 14:12; "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13; "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
Isa 14:14; 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
Isa 14:15; "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
Isa 14:16; "Those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying, 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,

It says this being is "fallen from heaven" in verse 12. In the King James Bible this person is called Lucifer.

Isa 14:12; How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

There is no record of any Earthly king of Babylon being named Lucifer. Lucifer is actually not a name per se, but rather a title... "dawn of the morning", or "morning star".
But again... like the king of Tyre, and the prince of Persia.. this person is called the king of Babylon.

Do these fallen angels... demons.. or whatever they might be... do they still have dominion over certain Earthly territories and cities?
It does seem some cities has a spirit of murder over them. Certain cities have a murder rate 10 times higher than the national average.
It seems other cities have a spirit of homosexuality. There are some cities where you never see or hear anything about homosexuality. Why are some places so much more prevalent in this.
In seems there are parts of the country where drug use and alcoholism is much higher than other areas. It's almost like certain sins give certain beings more power or more dominion.

Butch5 · Nov 23, 2019

B-A-C said:
In Isaiah 14, we see yet another similar passage. There is much debate over whether this is Satan or not. In any case... we have someone called "the king of Babylon".
There were of course many earthly kings of Babylon... but this one is seemingly different.

Isa 14:4; that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say, "How the oppressor has ceased, And how fury has ceased!
Isa 14:5; "The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked, The scepter of rulers
Isa 14:6; Which used to strike the peoples in fury with unceasing strokes, Which subdued the nations in anger with unrestrained persecution.
Isa 14:7; "The whole earth is at rest and is quiet; They break forth into shouts of joy.
Isa 14:8; "Even the cypress trees rejoice over you, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, 'Since you were laid low, no tree cutter comes up against us.'
Isa 14:9; "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Isa 14:10; "They will all respond and say to you, 'Even you have been made weak as we, You have become like us.
Isa 14:11; 'Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.'
Isa 14:12; "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13; "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
Isa 14:14; 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
Isa 14:15; "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
Isa 14:16; "Those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying, 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,

It says this being is "fallen from heaven" in verse 12. In the King James Bible this person is called Lucifer.

Isa 14:12; How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

There is no record of any Earthly king of Babylon being named Lucifer. Lucifer is actually not a name per se, but rather a title... "dawn of the morning", or "morning star".
But again... like the king of Tyre, and the prince of Persia.. this person is called the king of Babylon.

Do these fallen angels... demons.. or whatever they might be... do they still have dominion over certain Earthly territories and cities?
It does seem some cities has a spirit of murder over them. Certain cities have a murder rate 10 times higher than the national average.
It seems other cities have a spirit of homosexuality. There are some cities where you never see or hear anything about homosexuality. Why are some places so much more prevalent in this.
In seems there are parts of the country where drug use and alcoholism is much higher than other areas. It's almost like certain sins give certain beings more power or more dominion.

Have you considered that this passage might be speaking of the antichrist?

A. Christian · Nov 24, 2019

B-A-C said:
In Isaiah 14, we see yet another similar passage. There is much debate over whether this is Satan or not. In any case... we have someone called "the king of Babylon".
There were of course many earthly kings of Babylon... but this one is seemingly different.

Isa 14:4; that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say, "How the oppressor has ceased, And how fury has ceased!
Isa 14:5; "The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked, The scepter of rulers
Isa 14:6; Which used to strike the peoples in fury with unceasing strokes, Which subdued the nations in anger with unrestrained persecution.
Isa 14:7; "The whole earth is at rest and is quiet; They break forth into shouts of joy.
Isa 14:8; "Even the cypress trees rejoice over you, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, 'Since you were laid low, no tree cutter comes up against us.'
Isa 14:9; "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Isa 14:10; "They will all respond and say to you, 'Even you have been made weak as we, You have become like us.
Isa 14:11; 'Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.'
Isa 14:12; "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13; "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
Isa 14:14; 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
Isa 14:15; "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
Isa 14:16; "Those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying, 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,

It says this being is "fallen from heaven" in verse 12. In the King James Bible this person is called Lucifer.

Isa 14:12; How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

There is no record of any Earthly king of Babylon being named Lucifer. Lucifer is actually not a name per se, but rather a title... "dawn of the morning", or "morning star".
But again... like the king of Tyre, and the prince of Persia.. this person is called the king of Babylon.

Do these fallen angels... demons.. or whatever they might be... do they still have dominion over certain Earthly territories and cities?
It does seem some cities has a spirit of murder over them. Certain cities have a murder rate 10 times higher than the national average.
It seems other cities have a spirit of homosexuality. There are some cities where you never see or hear anything about homosexuality. Why are some places so much more prevalent in this.
In seems there are parts of the country where drug use and alcoholism is much higher than other areas. It's almost like certain sins give certain beings more power or more dominion.

Revelations 12 depicts the devil as a red dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns and 7 crowns on the 7 heads. Revelations 13 depicts a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns and 10 crowns on the 10 horns and the beast recieved power from the dragon. Again this beast is depicted in chapter 17 and it is stated that the heads represent mountains or in some versions kingdoms (If we count the number of kingdoms to oppress and rule over the nation of Israel we get 6 with the 7th being a future kingdom. Eygpt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, future kingdom) the horns represent kings that will rule with the beast. But the interesting thing is the crowns which I take to symbolize authority. The devil has 7 on the heads that represent kingdoms and the beasts has 10 on the horns. To me this shows that a demonic being such as the devil can be the spiritual king of a kingdom even though there is a physical king.

Brad Huber · Nov 24, 2019

Evil spirits, especially the strongest ones, influence those high up in positions of power to better able to do their work on humanity. Perhaps a prince of persia had such a evil spirit and was praying hard for "his forces" to thwart the prophet of God, and it took more force from the kingdom of God to break the logjam.

Wnl · Dec 6, 2019

Hi All , who is the beast?
With Love Wnl

A. Christian · Dec 6, 2019

Wnl said:
Hi All , who is the beast?
With Love Wnl

From what I can gather it is the spiritual king of a new kingdom that will oppress Israel at the very end of this age. It would seem that this is also the antichrist the physical ruler of this kingdom. So its interesting that the spiritual king and physical king seem to be the same person and a mortal at that. I can only guess that this points to the antichrist being a very very wicked person.

All that said future prophecy is always a subject open to debate because its hard to interpret scripture about these prophesies where everyone agrees.

Wnl · Dec 9, 2019

Hi Christian
I've been studying (who is the beast)you might get a shock as I did.

The beast is the beast within us, the man of sin, and carnality.
The beast comes out of the sea (of humanity) we too came up out of
the sea of humanity .

SO FOOLISH WAS I, AND IGNORANT: I WAS AS A BEAST BEFORE
THEE(Psalm 73:22).

BUT THEY SPEAK EVIL OF THOSE THINGS WHICH THEY KNOW NOT
BUT WHAT THEY KNOW NATURALLY, AS BRUTE BEASTS IN THOSE
THINGS THEY CORRUPT THEMSELVES (Jude: 10).

I SAID IN MINE HEART CONCERNING THE ESTATE OF THE SONS OF
MEN, THAT GOD MIGHT MANIFEST THEM, AND THAT THEY MIGHT
SEE THAT THEY THEMSELVES ARE BEASTS (Ecclesiastes 3:18 ).

The BEAST and the man of sin, and the SON OF PERDITION are all one
and the same.
There is not one prophetic BEAST out there, somewhere. We are all
BEASTS. within.

The man of sin of PERDITION is UNIVERSAL and found in ALL MANKIND
That is how Satan deceives THE WHOLE World (Rev 12:9).

Men is looking for THE BEAST same as the SON OF PERDITION out
there somewhere, when all the while he has been present
INSIDE OF US ALL.

Hope you find this interesting as I did,

With Love, Wnl

B-A-C · Dec 9, 2019

Wnl said:
The BEAST and the man of sin, and the SON OF PERDITION are all one
and the same.
There is not one prophetic BEAST out there, somewhere. We are all
BEASTS. within.

In that case.. we are destined for the lake of fire.

Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Wnl · Dec 9, 2019

Hi B -A -C
You've got it in one.
Apart from they will be tormented day and night forever (age) not
forever.
They will be purified by God, as God is a consuming fire. God is the fire.
This fire is not literal it's spiritual, there is no location, or can it be seen.
The BEAST IS NOT PHYSICALLY you, it's your carnal mind and sin. BEAST
within us. Spiritual Beast.
This is not the saved and elect, who has overcome the beast within us.
With Love, Wnl

Sue D. · Dec 9, 2019

Except for the fact that the lake of fire and brimstone will be real and God will Not be present as the fire because no one is going To be purified in that place. And that future place will be pitch black Because of lack of God's Light.

God's presence will be in the New Jerusalem which He will bring down from heaven, Himself.

the only 'purifying' of a person is done when they personally accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

Wnl · Dec 9, 2019

Hi Sue
The only thing I agree with you about in the new Jerusalem and that
itself is spiritual, a new spiritual order

You have read my posts on the word Hell (hades) we totally disagree
so there would be no point continuing this discussion
With Love, Wnl

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