Brother-Paul
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In these Last Days will 90% of the world's population be destroyed and only 10% make it?
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Brother-Paul
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I agree with the definition of Rapture brother
But I feel this scripture refers to the Final coming of the Lord, after the 7 year Tribulation Period.
Brother-Paul
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I think a lot of misunderstanding is down to how we each describe something, one person describes one way, another another way, but may be right it is just how they are described.
Some talk about first death, which is actually the death of the flesh.
Those who do talk about the first death also refer to the second death, which is for none believers following the Great White Throne Judgement.
So taking the way you are describing would you put it this way?
There are those who experience the death of the flesh
- for the unsaved, the spirit and soul goes to Shoel awaiting the Great White Throne Judgement. After which comes the final death.
- for the saved, the spirit and soul goes to the Current Heaven, they will be judged but not as an unbeliever, they will be judged for what they have done for the Lord, according to His Word, The Word.
The human body consists of 'flesh body, [spirit and soul]'
When the flesh body dies, the [spirit and soul] go to God in the Current Heaven, if I may say, not as you suggest 'returns to spiritual body', it was already a [spirit and soul] in the earthly body, it/they are one and both leave together as one when a person's flesh body dies.
Hope you don't mind me saying brother, you refer to witch which is sorcery, they should be which.
A simple spelling mistake but import to clarify, I pray you agree my friend. I add this as there has been a lot of talks of witch craft and sorcery in another thread.
Brother-Paul, I don’t mind correction on my wrong spelling of the word, witch/which. I should have proof read what I typed. Don’t correct me on anything else though. Only kidding.
A flesh body does have both a soul and a spirit. The soul being the actual life of a individual and the spirit being the intellect of the soul. It’s kind of like the flesh body with the human brain being the intellect of the flesh body.
The soul/spirit will always be housed in a body, whether the body be flesh or that finer body, which is referred to as the spiritual body. The spiritual body also houses a soul and spirit.
The sons of God spoke of in the book of Job 1:6 and 2:1 were not in flesh bodies. Satan had the same type body make up as the sons of God. It was a finer body that didn’t age, get sick, and remained youthful.
During this time period everything was going as God had planed. God had not needed a plan of salvation cause Satan had not rebelled at this point.
Most Christians just forget about the sons of God as if they never existed. They didn’t just disappear. They are still alive and have played a roll in Gods plan down through the ages.
Many keep believing the the tribulation will last sevens years. I guess they don’t believe that Christ said He was going to shorten the tribulation for the elect sake or else there would be no flesh saved. He shortened it from seven years period to Five month period.
Matt 24:40, there again, here God is basically saying that 50% of the people will fail to chose the correct Christ. Understand this, we have two super natural beings coming to earth, both will claim to be the savior, Jesus Christ. Each and every person at this time will have to chose the first or the second Christ that appears. This one decision here is a make or break life changing choice. It’s a fifty fifty, one taken the other left, decision. Better be right. Those that chose the wrong Jesus, it will be 1000 years of millennium boot camp, to be taught the true word of God by qualified teachers, to be retested again at the end of the thousand years.
The Great White Throne Judgement takes place shortly after the 1000 year millennium and the God head, God Almighty Himself, comes to earth to execute the final judge.
A flesh body does have both a soul and a spirit. The soul being the actual life of a individual and the spirit being the intellect of the soul. It’s kind of like the flesh body with the human brain being the intellect of the flesh body.
The soul/spirit will always be housed in a body, whether the body be flesh or that finer body, which is referred to as the spiritual body. The spiritual body also houses a soul and spirit.
The sons of God spoke of in the book of Job 1:6 and 2:1 were not in flesh bodies. Satan had the same type body make up as the sons of God. It was a finer body that didn’t age, get sick, and remained youthful.
During this time period everything was going as God had planed. God had not needed a plan of salvation cause Satan had not rebelled at this point.
Most Christians just forget about the sons of God as if they never existed. They didn’t just disappear. They are still alive and have played a roll in Gods plan down through the ages.
Many keep believing the the tribulation will last sevens years. I guess they don’t believe that Christ said He was going to shorten the tribulation for the elect sake or else there would be no flesh saved. He shortened it from seven years period to Five month period.
Matt 24:40, there again, here God is basically saying that 50% of the people will fail to chose the correct Christ. Understand this, we have two super natural beings coming to earth, both will claim to be the savior, Jesus Christ. Each and every person at this time will have to chose the first or the second Christ that appears. This one decision here is a make or break life changing choice. It’s a fifty fifty, one taken the other left, decision. Better be right. Those that chose the wrong Jesus, it will be 1000 years of millennium boot camp, to be taught the true word of God by qualified teachers, to be retested again at the end of the thousand years.
The Great White Throne Judgement takes place shortly after the 1000 year millennium and the God head, God Almighty Himself, comes to earth to execute the final judge.
Beresheet
I Still don't know Where you get your information From -- cause a lot of it Isn't Biblical.
Your one comment makes it sound like God got caught off guard by satan. God has all knowledge -- about Everything.
You have a way of taking passages out of their context and putting them together to form your own 'theology'.
I Still don't know Where you get your information From -- cause a lot of it Isn't Biblical.
Your one comment makes it sound like God got caught off guard by satan. God has all knowledge -- about Everything.
You have a way of taking passages out of their context and putting them together to form your own 'theology'.
KingJ
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Jesus shortening the days for the elects sake speaks to me of a rapture event coming earlier verse later. The elect will be raptured.
God wants as much time as possible to reach the lost not raptured. I don't see any shortening of seven years for them. They are going to spend eternity in hell. What is seven years. I am surprised it is not longer. But God knows the perfect timing for all things I guess.
KingJ
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Sue, this comes across rude. Why don't you rather correct in love or provide a proper rebuttal?
Is there anyone in your church that reads the bible exactly the same as the other? We need to constantly discern Rom 14:5 matters verse material matters.
John Prewett
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Revelation 13:7 "It was granted to him to wage war with the saints."
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
PreTrib is a major false prophecy of our age designed to make you think you have no need to know how to identify the Beast and have no need to understand the "marking."
Satan wants you confused and vulnerable when the Beast emerges and you are on earth wondering what is going on.
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
PreTrib is a major false prophecy of our age designed to make you think you have no need to know how to identify the Beast and have no need to understand the "marking."
Satan wants you confused and vulnerable when the Beast emerges and you are on earth wondering what is going on.
The Pre-trib timing of the rapture is as much in Scripture as the other 'timings'. Mid-trib timing is a possibility -- but post-trib's timing is off.
The question is Why would the Church Have to feel God's wrath for not repenting? The Church is the body of all born-again believers in this world. 'we' have Accepted. The 7 years Of tribulation are for those who have Not. The present world is going to get worse and worse for Everyone. And during the 7 yrs. God is mainly dealing with the non-believing Jews. We are Now in the 'time of the Gentiles'. He Will deal again with the Jews / His Chosen people again.
Well -- Beresheet has presented this same material several Other times and I've shared Scriptures with him Then very specifically. And a couple of others have also.
Bible says what Bible says -- Genesis is Bible and tells specifically what is taking place. Which is what I Have pointed out. He feels he has some More Complete knowledge which is Not part Of Scripture.
Actually the Bible studies I go to and the churches I go to pretty much Do agree in most areas. And , no, I do not limit myself to small groups. And they Are conservative Baptist.
I've grown up and spent my adult life in Bible.
John Prewett
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Revelation 13:7 "It was granted to him to wage war with the saints."
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
The group whisked away before the Beast reigns is an IMAGINARY group existing only in the imaginations of preTribbers.
PreTribbers also refuse to accept the truth that persecution by man is NOT the "wrath of God"
As per Revelation 15, the saved are SAFE WITH JESUS IN HEAVEN when God pours out God's wrath as per Revelation 16.
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
The group whisked away before the Beast reigns is an IMAGINARY group existing only in the imaginations of preTribbers.
PreTribbers also refuse to accept the truth that persecution by man is NOT the "wrath of God"
As per Revelation 15, the saved are SAFE WITH JESUS IN HEAVEN when God pours out God's wrath as per Revelation 16.
Yes, the elect will be raptured -- the Church.
During the 7 yrs. of tribulation -- Revelation says that multitudes from every knook and crany of the world Will Also accept Christ as Savior. So -- no -- they won't automatically be in hell for eternity.
yes, of Course God's timing Is Perfect. No guessing needs to be done by anyone in That area.
Brother-Paul
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Greetings brother,
I was concerned and prayed first, I was going to PM you but as I typed my message I felt ok to point out the spelling. It is not something I do or like doing, we all make mistakes, we all make smelling mitakes, ;o) The only words I feel need pointing out and would not be offended if people do the same for my posts (here they come LOL) are special words to scripture. Witch and which, another I read, not yourself is Holly for Holy, I don't thing they are berry good.
Thank you for your understanding, I am at peace now.
Now regarding the Body, Flesh, [Spirit and Soul], I think your wording of this is better explained, I place [Spirit and Soul] in brackets to separate the two, but to say they are housed in the flesh body I think maybe sounds better. Thank you brother.
Jesus is Lord
Yes, the saved Are safe with Jesus both when they experience physical death and for those who are alive at the time Of the rapture.
In chapter 16 we have the seven angels and the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth as per vs 1.
And there are 3 'woes' taking place.
And ch 8 tells about the 7 angels
"Ch 9 is where the 5 months are mentioned - of torment. which has nothing to do with the 7 yrs. of tribulation.
"This" is my post #29 response but I did Not include the posts of the other two people. I don't know how they got included. Just sayin....
KingJ
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Stirring the pot I see. '' IMAGINARY'' :smile:.
John Prewett
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Revelation 13:7 "It was granted to him to wage war with the saints."
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
13 I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, with ten crowns on his horns, and blasphemous names on his heads.
2 The beast which I saw was like a leopard. His feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.
3 I saw one of his heads as if it was mortally wounded, but his deadly wound was healed, and the whole world marveled and followed the beast.
4 They worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to wage war with him?”
5 He was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies. And he was given authority to wage war for forty-two months.
6 He opened his mouth to speak blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle and those who dwell in heaven.
7 It was granted to him to wage war with the saints and to overcome them.
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
That's just the way it is
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
13 I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, with ten crowns on his horns, and blasphemous names on his heads.
2 The beast which I saw was like a leopard. His feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.
3 I saw one of his heads as if it was mortally wounded, but his deadly wound was healed, and the whole world marveled and followed the beast.
4 They worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to wage war with him?”
5 He was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies. And he was given authority to wage war for forty-two months.
6 He opened his mouth to speak blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle and those who dwell in heaven.
7 It was granted to him to wage war with the saints and to overcome them.
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saints.
That's just the way it is
KingJ
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John you have cherry picked a verse. There are other verses speaking to a rapture event before these. There are verses speaking to a rapture event mid trib. There are verses speaking to saints having power over the devil. You have not considered any of these.
Considering all scripture on the topic I would say Rev 13:7 is true for an early part of the tribulation.
Well -- how about 'this' -- at the end of the 1,000 yr reign of Jesus Christ here on earth -- satan will be loosed from the Abyss where he's been chained and when he's 'back' there Are those who Will follow him and there Will be a final confrontation between satan and his followers and God's followers. When it seems that God's followers are Loosing -- God destroys the enemy Revelation 20:9 Battle of Gog and Magog is mentioned.
The rapture of the Church will have taken place Long before this takes place. Like at least those 1,000 yrs + 7.
And, We Will see 'how it turns out to be'. It's all part of the 'revelation' that John was given.
John Prewett
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Oft I see post regarding the "rapture," "return of Christ," "end times" and the like.
Oft they cite Daniel, Paul and Matt 24/Mark 13.
Oft they cite little or nothing from the Revelation.
When I see such a post, I know the poster is ignorant of the supreme significance of the Revelation, thus is deceived as to what is going to happen.
ONLY the Revelation God gave Jesus, thence to servants of Jesus reveals OUR end of era scenario.
Paul and the pre-ascended Jesus wrote-spoke of their own Ancient Israel generation's "end time."
Even Jesus did not know the content of the Revelation until it was given to Him after He ascended into heaven.
The return of Christ FOR the saved of Ancient Israel took place as Paul and Jesus said it would.
As per Revelation 19, the coming return of Christ is WITH the saved (who were already with Christ as per Revelation 15).
Oft they cite Daniel, Paul and Matt 24/Mark 13.
Oft they cite little or nothing from the Revelation.
When I see such a post, I know the poster is ignorant of the supreme significance of the Revelation, thus is deceived as to what is going to happen.
ONLY the Revelation God gave Jesus, thence to servants of Jesus reveals OUR end of era scenario.
Paul and the pre-ascended Jesus wrote-spoke of their own Ancient Israel generation's "end time."
Even Jesus did not know the content of the Revelation until it was given to Him after He ascended into heaven.
The return of Christ FOR the saved of Ancient Israel took place as Paul and Jesus said it would.
As per Revelation 19, the coming return of Christ is WITH the saved (who were already with Christ as per Revelation 15).
