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All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in him bodily
"and the Word was God"
- Thread starter Rev Autrey
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Truthcomber
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Hi All,
The two pillars of the trinity, does not stand.
Have you been deceived by Matthew 28:14
http://www.lightofyahwehshua.com/news/2017/12/17/have-you-been-deceived-by-matthew-2819
Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7)
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 5 - King James Version
Quote: “1 John 5:7 in the KJV contains these words called the Johannine Comma (also known as the Comma Johanneum or the Heavenly Witnesses). This Comma is omitted from most modern translations of the Bible because most Greek manuscripts do not have them. Only 11 "late" Greek manuscripts contain the Comma, with 6 of them having it in the margin by an even later hand:+
Quote: “Most Greek manuscripts containing 1 John 5:6-8 would be considered "late" by modern standards. Of the about 480 manuscripts of 1 John 5, only 12 of these manuscripts are from before the 10th century (Nestle-Aland: Novum Testamentum Graece, 27th revised edition (2006))+
1 John 5:7 And Matthew 28:19 – Fabricated Trinity Verses
1 John 5:7 And Matthew 28:19 – Fabricated Trinity Verses
Me: Although this article was written by Muslims, it smacks of the truth.
The two pillars of the trinity, does not stand.
Have you been deceived by Matthew 28:14
http://www.lightofyahwehshua.com/news/2017/12/17/have-you-been-deceived-by-matthew-2819
Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7)
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 5 - King James Version
Quote: “1 John 5:7 in the KJV contains these words called the Johannine Comma (also known as the Comma Johanneum or the Heavenly Witnesses). This Comma is omitted from most modern translations of the Bible because most Greek manuscripts do not have them. Only 11 "late" Greek manuscripts contain the Comma, with 6 of them having it in the margin by an even later hand:+
Quote: “Most Greek manuscripts containing 1 John 5:6-8 would be considered "late" by modern standards. Of the about 480 manuscripts of 1 John 5, only 12 of these manuscripts are from before the 10th century (Nestle-Aland: Novum Testamentum Graece, 27th revised edition (2006))+
1 John 5:7 And Matthew 28:19 – Fabricated Trinity Verses
1 John 5:7 And Matthew 28:19 – Fabricated Trinity Verses
Me: Although this article was written by Muslims, it smacks of the truth.
Truthcomber
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Hi All,
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.
34 Bible verses about No Other is God
34 Bible verses about No Other Is God
Me: Does Elohim really mean a “plural oneness” or a “plurality of persons”?
The best explanation, I believe, is from the below link.
Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity In the Name of God? Why is God’s Name “Elohim” Plural?
outreachjudaism.org
The noun, Yahweh is always singular. So, Elohim has to be likewise the singular form (plural intensive) to describe the true God. Elohim is used in plural form to describe the many false pagan Gods but only in singular form (plural intensive) to show majesty.
'elohiym - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - King James Version
Does Elohim really mean a "plural oneness" or a "plurality of persons"?
Comment: Plural of excellence and not of number refers to the Almighty. Plural in number refers to beings that are not the Almighty as in man and the angels. Although the article above is a JW article, it smacks of the truth.
“Let us” in Genesis 1:26 is NOT the Trinity
“Let us” in Genesis 1:26 is NOT the Trinity
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us (singular, plural intensive) make man in our image, after our (singular, plural intensive) likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he (God) them (Adam and Eve).
Interlinear Bible:
Genesis 1:26 God (singular) utter, make man an image likeness
Genesis 1:27 Lexicon: God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Verse 27: God create mankind an image an image God create male a female God create
Me: Go to comment on vs 27, is God both a male and female? No, he is neither. For God is invisible spirit. On the other hand, his visible image, who is the lamb of God is a male. To match “us” and “our” in verse 26 would be to match it with “male and female” in verse 27. That would make God both a male and female. So “us” is a wrong word used in a wrong place. In fact God is singular plural intensive (H430) noun. What does this mean? It means that when the greatest majesty of a thing or person is emphasized, it is used in this form. That is exactly what is happening here. For verse 27 uses the pronoun “he” to describe God. Here, the singular “he” in verse 27 agrees with the singular plural intensive God in verse 26, both describing as a singular being. It is not referring to the pagan trinity as explained in my opening posts. Can you find anywhere in biblical history where a monotheistic God is considered pagan? On the hand, there is an plethora of historic evidence of the pagan origins of the trinity.
To continue with the phrase, “make man in our image”, I feel it should be to “make man in my image” to provide cohesiveness. There is no “us” or “our” in the first part of Genesis 1:26 presented in the interlinear bible. It could have very well been stated as “God said I will make man in my image and likeness”. So, whether the pronouns should be translated as the plurals “us” and “our” or “I” and “my” are predicated on “God” being singular or plural. And all reputable biblical scholars, even those that are Trinitarian admit that “God” here is singular, plural intensive.
Genesis 1:27 Lexicon: God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.
34 Bible verses about No Other is God
34 Bible verses about No Other Is God
Me: Does Elohim really mean a “plural oneness” or a “plurality of persons”?
The best explanation, I believe, is from the below link.
Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity In the Name of God? Why is God’s Name “Elohim” Plural?
Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity In the Name of God? Why is God’s Name “Elohim” Plural? - Outreach Judaism
Question: Dear Rabbi Singer, First, let me say that what you are doing is a great service to Jews and the religious community at large. You are setting the record straight – one that has needed correction for almost 2,000 years! Thank you. Yesterday, a Christian business associate made a point...
outreachjudaism.org
The noun, Yahweh is always singular. So, Elohim has to be likewise the singular form (plural intensive) to describe the true God. Elohim is used in plural form to describe the many false pagan Gods but only in singular form (plural intensive) to show majesty.
'elohiym - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - King James Version
Does Elohim really mean a "plural oneness" or a "plurality of persons"?
Comment: Plural of excellence and not of number refers to the Almighty. Plural in number refers to beings that are not the Almighty as in man and the angels. Although the article above is a JW article, it smacks of the truth.
“Let us” in Genesis 1:26 is NOT the Trinity
“Let us” in Genesis 1:26 is NOT the Trinity
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us (singular, plural intensive) make man in our image, after our (singular, plural intensive) likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he (God) them (Adam and Eve).
Interlinear Bible:
Genesis 1:26 God (singular) utter, make man an image likeness
Genesis 1:27 Lexicon: God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Verse 27: God create mankind an image an image God create male a female God create
Me: Go to comment on vs 27, is God both a male and female? No, he is neither. For God is invisible spirit. On the other hand, his visible image, who is the lamb of God is a male. To match “us” and “our” in verse 26 would be to match it with “male and female” in verse 27. That would make God both a male and female. So “us” is a wrong word used in a wrong place. In fact God is singular plural intensive (H430) noun. What does this mean? It means that when the greatest majesty of a thing or person is emphasized, it is used in this form. That is exactly what is happening here. For verse 27 uses the pronoun “he” to describe God. Here, the singular “he” in verse 27 agrees with the singular plural intensive God in verse 26, both describing as a singular being. It is not referring to the pagan trinity as explained in my opening posts. Can you find anywhere in biblical history where a monotheistic God is considered pagan? On the hand, there is an plethora of historic evidence of the pagan origins of the trinity.
To continue with the phrase, “make man in our image”, I feel it should be to “make man in my image” to provide cohesiveness. There is no “us” or “our” in the first part of Genesis 1:26 presented in the interlinear bible. It could have very well been stated as “God said I will make man in my image and likeness”. So, whether the pronouns should be translated as the plurals “us” and “our” or “I” and “my” are predicated on “God” being singular or plural. And all reputable biblical scholars, even those that are Trinitarian admit that “God” here is singular, plural intensive.
Genesis 1:27 Lexicon: God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Oh no. Rabbi Singer. Maybe I'm in his comments proving the Trinity. Why doesn't he want to debate Michael Brown anymore?
In the Old Testament God showed Himself as a Man already. It's so clear from the Old Testament. Jacob wrestled with a Man. He had wrestled with God. Moses. First the Angel of the Lord is in the burning bush. Then God calls him from the bush.
Is Jesus singular? The Father was in Him and when He got baptized w the Spirit He started to do the miracles.
Perfect Example of the Trinity is Jesus. In Him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily. Father spoke. He only spoke what the Father said. He uttered the Words. Holy Spirit performed the miracles. So 3 Persons in One and One Person at the same time.
In the Old Testament God showed Himself as a Man already. It's so clear from the Old Testament. Jacob wrestled with a Man. He had wrestled with God. Moses. First the Angel of the Lord is in the burning bush. Then God calls him from the bush.
Is Jesus singular? The Father was in Him and when He got baptized w the Spirit He started to do the miracles.
Perfect Example of the Trinity is Jesus. In Him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily. Father spoke. He only spoke what the Father said. He uttered the Words. Holy Spirit performed the miracles. So 3 Persons in One and One Person at the same time.
The word 'Godhead' is a Trinitarian invention. The real word is deity. The Holman bible has the most accurate translation of Colossian 2:9.
"For in Him the entire fullness of God's nature dwells bodily."
As believers we are filled with the fulness of God. That doesn't make us God.
Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
The KJV translators, as well as most translators of all the other versions were Trinitarian so they injected their Trinitarian slant into it.
If people only knew the origins of the Trinity doctrine.
B-A-C
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And so the false Christs and false prophets continue. It seems every few months they come out of the wood-work here.
The Bible plainly says Jesus is God.
Tit 2:13; looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
2 Pet 1:1; Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
Jesus is God. It doesn't get any plainer than that.
Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
God created the heavens and the earth, Jesus created everything (incuding the heavens and the earth).
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
The Bible plainly says Jesus is God.
Tit 2:13; looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
2 Pet 1:1; Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
Jesus is God. It doesn't get any plainer than that.
Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
God created the heavens and the earth, Jesus created everything (incuding the heavens and the earth).
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
B-A-C
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2 Cor 11:3; But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
2 Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you listen to them beautifully.
2 Cor 11:13; For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14; No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15; Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
2 Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you listen to them beautifully.
2 Cor 11:13; For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14; No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15; Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
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If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
But I don't say to you: have I been so long with you and you don't know Me? Cause I'm not God.
Isaiah 9:6. A forefather from me was Jewish. That's one of the reasons he found Jesus. He said the Messiah couldn't be just a man.
True but I'd say Spirit
And to make things more complicated:
And I looked, [b]and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
You can't put God in a 5 kilo brain box.
Do you know the names of the seven Spirits of God?
Truthcomber
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Hi New Name
You: Oh no. Rabbi Singer. Maybe I'm in his comments proving the Trinity. Why doesn't he want to debate Michael Brown anymore?
Me: You did not address the concepts in the article written by the Rabbi. I thought it was a good article. I do not agree with him on the lot, for example, Jesus was not the Messiah. But this article was one of light that showed the error of the trinitarians in interpreting “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26.
Here’s another article written by a Trinitarian that agrees with the Rabbi on “plural majesty” that refers to a single entity.
What is the majestic plural, and how is it used in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
Me: And another
Plural of Majesty
Quote: Some who claim to know Hebrew state unequivocally that there is no Plural of Majesty in Biblical Hebrew idiom. Those holding that view are wrong. Most who oppose or promote the idiom are obsessed with the word "God" or "elohiym," which is clearly a Plural of Majesty. But there are many other incidents of plural of majesty related to Hebrew nouns. Often a noun which is meant to be understood as singular in pluralised to indicate a special person or thing. That is, a person or thing which deserves greater respect or honor or has greatness applied to it. That is a plural of majesty.
1 Thes 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
You: Oh no. Rabbi Singer. Maybe I'm in his comments proving the Trinity. Why doesn't he want to debate Michael Brown anymore?
Me: You did not address the concepts in the article written by the Rabbi. I thought it was a good article. I do not agree with him on the lot, for example, Jesus was not the Messiah. But this article was one of light that showed the error of the trinitarians in interpreting “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26.
Here’s another article written by a Trinitarian that agrees with the Rabbi on “plural majesty” that refers to a single entity.
What is the majestic plural, and how is it used in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
Me: And another
Plural of Majesty
Quote: Some who claim to know Hebrew state unequivocally that there is no Plural of Majesty in Biblical Hebrew idiom. Those holding that view are wrong. Most who oppose or promote the idiom are obsessed with the word "God" or "elohiym," which is clearly a Plural of Majesty. But there are many other incidents of plural of majesty related to Hebrew nouns. Often a noun which is meant to be understood as singular in pluralised to indicate a special person or thing. That is, a person or thing which deserves greater respect or honor or has greatness applied to it. That is a plural of majesty.
1 Thes 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Truthcomber
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Hi New Name
You: In the Old Testament God showed Himself as a Man already. It's so clear from the Old Testament. Jacob wrestled with a Man. He had wrestled with God. Moses. First the Angel of the Lord is in the burning bush. Then God calls him from the bush.
Me: No!!!
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Me: If Christ was a human already, why did God prepare a body for him in Hebrews 10:5? Did Christ have a body, then didn’t and did again?
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Me: "Yesterday" does not mean from eternity. Look up word.
Hebrews 13:8 Interlinear: Jesus Christ yesterday and to-day the same, and to the ages;
Me; Christ appeared as theophanies and Christophany in the OT. These were not his permanent body.
What is a theophany? What is a Christophany? | GotQuestions.org
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: This is when the Word became one with the humanity of the seed of David. This is when God became the Father and the Word or expression (John 1:18) of himself, his son.. You cannot find one place in the bible where the Words “God the Father” and “God the Son” are stated. You cannot find “son of God in the OT pertaining to Christ or humans. Click and see.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Me: only the angels made in the image of God are called the sons of God in the OT because they were a fiat creation in the image of God, they had no ancestors. Adam was also called the son God (Luke 3:38) because he likewise had no ancestors and was made in the image of God.
Neither was the Word called the son of God in the OT. Only in Daniel 3:25 do we find one “like the son of God” in reference to the Word..
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Me: So when did the Word become fully the son of God.?
Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten (me: birth) thee.
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten (birth) thee.
Me: It was after the Messiah had risen from the dead and was glorified with his Father in heaven that he became fully the son of God.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
God had expressed himself in the human mind and form of the Messiah. Truly, the Word or expression of himself became the Son of God.
You: In the Old Testament God showed Himself as a Man already. It's so clear from the Old Testament. Jacob wrestled with a Man. He had wrestled with God. Moses. First the Angel of the Lord is in the burning bush. Then God calls him from the bush.
Me: No!!!
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Me: If Christ was a human already, why did God prepare a body for him in Hebrews 10:5? Did Christ have a body, then didn’t and did again?
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Me: "Yesterday" does not mean from eternity. Look up word.
Hebrews 13:8 Interlinear: Jesus Christ yesterday and to-day the same, and to the ages;
Me; Christ appeared as theophanies and Christophany in the OT. These were not his permanent body.
What is a theophany? What is a Christophany? | GotQuestions.org
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: This is when the Word became one with the humanity of the seed of David. This is when God became the Father and the Word or expression (John 1:18) of himself, his son.. You cannot find one place in the bible where the Words “God the Father” and “God the Son” are stated. You cannot find “son of God in the OT pertaining to Christ or humans. Click and see.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Me: only the angels made in the image of God are called the sons of God in the OT because they were a fiat creation in the image of God, they had no ancestors. Adam was also called the son God (Luke 3:38) because he likewise had no ancestors and was made in the image of God.
Neither was the Word called the son of God in the OT. Only in Daniel 3:25 do we find one “like the son of God” in reference to the Word..
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
Me: So when did the Word become fully the son of God.?
Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten (me: birth) thee.
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten (birth) thee.
Me: It was after the Messiah had risen from the dead and was glorified with his Father in heaven that he became fully the son of God.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
God had expressed himself in the human mind and form of the Messiah. Truly, the Word or expression of himself became the Son of God.
Truthcomber
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Hi saginon,
You: If people only knew the origins of the Trinity doctrine.
Me: I think we should inform them.
www.trinitytruth.org
You: If people only knew the origins of the Trinity doctrine.
Me: I think we should inform them.
The Pagan Origins Of The Trinity Doctrine
Is the trinity pagan or does the doctrine of the trinity have pagan origins or is it biblical or was it formulated in the council of Nicea?
I read that page before and still have as one of my favorites.Hi saginon,
You: If people only knew the origins of the Trinity doctrine.
Me: I think we should inform them.
The Pagan Origins Of The Trinity Doctrine
Is the trinity pagan or does the doctrine of the trinity have pagan origins or is it biblical or was it formulated in the council of Nicea?
Just like my dad who was banned here over a trinitarian debate, I get tired of people calling non-trinitarians false Christ and false prophets, even condemning them.
Most trinitarian's simply quote verses and say that they prove a trinity without going any deeper into the Word. They usually don't use the Greek and Hebrew or other resources and are often proud of their condemning accusations.
The Trinity doctrine developed from a power struggle between Arius and Athanasius. Arius was non-trinitarian, and Athanasius developed Trinitarianism. It became more of a political argument and power struggle than a theological or biblical one. Once Christianity became the state religion of the Roman empire, power within the church became political. Arius and Athanasius had significant followings and they both wanted power. The two groups fought savage battles with each other and were rioting against each other over it. Athanasius was more brutal, more powerful, and more emotional about his beliefs and literally destroyed his opponent Arius and his followers, so Constantine sided with him.
The state religion of Rome was in trouble and Constantine realized that Christianity itself had to be united if it were to be the state religion. The issue of how to formulate a creed about the nature of Jesus became a political dispute, not a religious one. One side had to be chosen as right, and the other side must be silenced. He came down on the side of Athanasius for political reasons and adopted the trinitarian creed for the church, and exiled Arius. And so, Jesus ‘became’ God because of that.
"There are numerous accounts of Athanasius’ followers beating and murdering non-trinitarian Christians in the lead-up to the Council of Nicea, torturing their victims and parading their dead bodies around." (See Richard Hanson, The Search For The Christian Doctrine Of God: The Arian Controversy 318-381 (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1988) p. 386.)
The trinitarian Athanasius was by far the more brutal. "Bishop Athanasius, a future saint… had his opponents excommunicated and anathematized, beaten and intimidated, kidnapped, imprisoned, and exiled to distant provinces." (Richard Rubenstein, When Jesus Became God (London: Harcourt, 2000) p. 6.)
I should flag the reply above with the false Christ - false prophet accusations.
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If you know them tell us, I'm curious what you may think they are. The seven spirits of God IS the holy spirit. The power of God Almighty comes from the 7 spirits who likely are 7 different hierarchies of angels. When God said, "let us" make mankind in our image, the 'us' refers to 'angels' who God used in the creation process. He spoke the worlds into existence through His angelic correspondents.
B-A-C
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False, He was not "made" at all. He always existed.
B-A-C
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
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- 11,995
False. God is a Spirit, but that isn't all He is. Ice is water. But water isn't only ice. It can be liquid, or it can be steam.
