Who can and cannot be saved.

Pipiripi said:

It is an evil person that don't believe in God did has programmed it.

Click to expand...

Make believe this android was made by a devout, God fearing Christian who believes, and the android believes. Except it feels convinced it has a soul. And the whole rest of the world tells it it doesn’t, it’s “just” a machine. What do you say to it?

Maybe it thinks it is an apple with a bite taken out of it? [a sort of identity crisis??]

Greetings Mr Kirby [how are you?]

I was thinking of asking you about which OS you are using but sounds like it may be an android?


Bless you ....><>

Kirby D. P. said:

Make believe this android was made by a devout, God fearing Christian who believes, and the android believes. Except it feels convinced it has a soul. And the whole rest of the world tells it it doesn’t, it’s “just” a machine. What do you say to it?

Click to expand...

Devoted by who? You maybe then I ask you question and you program it to answer. My God don't created machines to have conversations program into it for debating or talking whatever. Are you an android?

Read Ezekiel 18.

Pipiripi said:

Read Ezekiel 18.

Click to expand...

So an android CAN be redeemed by dint of its good deeds? And a wayward human is beyond redemption?

Ok. I think this fits within the rules of the scenario.

When Jesus returns, all things in heaven and earth will be reconciled to himself. All that's good and pure will be glorified, all that's evil will be destroyed - burnt up.

So there's grounds for hope for our android friend that he will have continued existence in the new creation.

We're talking a machine right? A robot type of thing. So a Person invents a machine and Programs it in a certain way. No matter how the machine is programmed, it Never can 'become' human. It is a sophisticated Machine. But still a Machine. And it can't be programmed to Think. Unless you're trying to talk about artificial intelligence. And That is Still artificial. No person can ever 'invent' anything with a soul. Only God can do that.

The future that God is preparing is only for people with a soul.

Sue D. said:

We're talking a machine right? A robot type of thing. So a Person invents a machine and Programs it in a certain way. No matter how the machine is programmed, it Never can 'become' human. It is a sophisticated Machine. But still a Machine. And it can't be programmed to Think. Unless you're trying to talk about artificial intelligence. And That is Still artificial. No person can ever 'invent' anything with a soul. Only God can do that.

The future that God is preparing is only for people with a soul.

Click to expand...

You have sort of hit upon my problem. Yes, it’s “just” a machine. Sure, if we want to call it “AI” we can. “Real” AI has always bee kind of a moving target since the first calculating machines were built in WWII. Let’s just say it’s a very lifelike robot controlled by a VERY clever computer that you or I have programmed. What if it is programmed so well neither we nor anyone who meets it nor even ITSELF can tell it “doesn’t have” a soul.

A not-so obvious way to think of it is this: How are you absolutely sure you have one? I don’t mean that as a rhetorical question. I mean, what if this android asked us every conceivable question trying to figure out for itself if it has a soul and it insists it senses every bit of every detail that you and I claim distinguishes us as ensouled. What if that android spends 80-90 years participating as a helpful, beneficial “member” of its community. Never so much as hurts a fly, but, instead, spends its time helping and saving people.

What do you think of the notion of rewarding that android with an afterlife in Paradise?

You're Also asking if people really do have a soul? Yes, we do. It's the spiritual part of us. It's the part of a person who wants to worship 'something'.

No human being can 'create' another being.

And, yes, there are incredibly intelligent / creative people who can 'make' something Almost human.

You're talking about a "Data" on Star Trek -- He was an andriot who - over time- really wanted to be human. He wanted a 'program' to make him a male in every way possible. He wanted to be human just like everyone else on board.
Well -- the Dr. guy who'd invented him -- Was - indeed just a human being who'd created a very sophisticated androit who looked pretty human. There was an episode where another crew member -- someone on board -- fell in love with him. But she realized, after a while, that though he could be programmed to act a certain way -- the reality was that he lacked human warmth. At one point, they were kissing and she asked him what he was thinking. Hoping it would be something romantic. Instead he'd been thinking about a complex math problem and something else totally unrelated to being a man with an attractive woman in his arms.

At times, we meet people who are So logical minded -- so business -minded. Maybe a strong choleric personality. Great on a business level but up close and personal -- no real emotional closeness.

The creator Of the very sophisticated android knows it's simply a machine. A very sophisticated machine -- but Still a machine. It won't 'take over'. It won't mate with another andriot.

The creator Can simply 'unplug' it -- disconnect it. Deprogram it.

Besides -- you're assuming that the creator Of will program it to be a nice, helpful robot in society. What if that creator decides to create it with a sadistic personality. Or as a narcisist. Or maybe the creator him/ herself IS that type of personality.
And his/ her desire is to create lots of others like themselves.

Machines don't last forever. A short circuit develops. Or some other genius gets jealous and comes up with a newer , even 'better' andriod. Well -- look at how fast technowledgy is developing NOW.

Or maybe -- as a machine -- doesn't require food or nourishment of any kind. It Could out-live people?! It would eventually end up in a heap of scrap metal somewhere. Because , in reality, that's what it really is Scrap metal.

People who accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior ARE rewarded with an afterlife in Paradise.

Greetings Mr Kirby,

much would depend on who programmed it.

Have you heard [and tried] Easy OS? A small off-shoot of Puppy Linux put together by Barry K, who is the man behind the original Puppy. It is fast and has most of the bells and whistles most folk need plus, as is typical with Puppy stuff, lots more.
The difference with Easy OS is that Barry made it to be an image file which is different from the typical distro available. That means you copy the file to say a USB drive and bingo, you're up and running [my quick variation on the process] instead of burning a disk and running the distro from there and then installing, etc

Now, here's the point, While Barry K did a magnificent job [so far] in what he put together [from a mans point of view] it is all what he has put into that image {for those who don't understand, the image referred to here is basically the operating system of a computer in the form of a file that when executed - run, the user has a complete and usable system like windoze or apple - but better!]
So, everything that is in the image is or has come out from a man who put it all together, or, created it.

So.... with the model of an android, that you are using here, it can only be as 'good' as the image of the person or people who created it.

I think you get my drift? God made man in His image (read Genesis again) and the account we have is that He not only formed or made man but that He breathed life into man AND at that point, man became a living soul.
You probably know the story of how it was not long before man meddled with his OS and got the blue screen of death!

While your model of an android is good to a point, without the realisation that it all depends on whose image it is made from, even if the scenario you present was possible, the image would not be of God and therefore no Life and no hope or chance of being saved.
Can an android be born again? While some may say if it were an apple or even [dare i say it] a windows style robot or apparatus, that is not possible. An android is an android, as you know and is built from the bottom up and will always be an android.

Now, we come to people. We do get programmed and we do need rebirth. I won't go into that for now as others may like to add something that i can't. but i shall leave you with this:

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
2Corinthians 3:17-18

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Corinthians 15:49


Bless you ....><>

Sue D. said:

You're Also asking if people really do have a soul? Yes, we do. It's the spiritual part of us. It's the part of a person who wants to worship 'something'.

No human being can 'create' another being.

And, yes, there are incredibly intelligent / creative people who can 'make' something Almost human.

You're talking about a "Data" on Star Trek -- He was an andriot who - over time- really wanted to be human. He wanted a 'program' to make him a male in every way possible. He wanted to be human just like everyone else on board.
Well -- the Dr. guy who'd invented him -- Was - indeed just a human being who'd created a very sophisticated androit who looked pretty human. There was an episode where another crew member -- someone on board -- fell in love with him. But she realized, after a while, that though he could be programmed to act a certain way -- the reality was that he lacked human warmth. At one point, they were kissing and she asked him what he was thinking. Hoping it would be something romantic. Instead he'd been thinking about a complex math problem and something else totally unrelated to being a man with an attractive woman in his arms.

At times, we meet people who are So logical minded -- so business -minded. Maybe a strong choleric personality. Great on a business level but up close and personal -- no real emotional closeness.

The creator Of the very sophisticated android knows it's simply a machine. A very sophisticated machine -- but Still a machine. It won't 'take over'. It won't mate with another andriot.

The creator Can simply 'unplug' it -- disconnect it. Deprogram it.

Besides -- you're assuming that the creator Of will program it to be a nice, helpful robot in society. What if that creator decides to create it with a sadistic personality. Or as a narcisist. Or maybe the creator him/ herself IS that type of personality.
And his/ her desire is to create lots of others like themselves.

Machines don't last forever. A short circuit develops. Or some other genius gets jealous and comes up with a newer , even 'better' andriod. Well -- look at how fast technowledgy is developing NOW.

Or maybe -- as a machine -- doesn't require food or nourishment of any kind. It Could out-live people?! It would eventually end up in a heap of scrap metal somewhere. Because , in reality, that's what it really is Scrap metal.

People who accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior ARE rewarded with an afterlife in Paradise.

Click to expand...

Those are all wonderful details into which to dig.(BTW, Data is a good, though not great, example of my conundrum. The Replicants from Bladerunner are more on the mark. Point is, any android that can be imagined can be tested as I describe.) But fun as that would be, I’d like to cleave to (what I think is) my central curiosity.

Here’s a question that runs the risk of what I think they call in philosophy “solipsism,” which entails the big question of is it possible to really know what we know. That won’t be my point. And, again, this isn’t a rhetorical question or any bid to “score” some kind of “point.”

How do you know — for sure — you are not an android? And does it matter? If so, why?

I know my answers. But I’d like to hear yours first.

I'm very much a red-blooded woman. I've been convicted by the Holy Spirit of my sins and my personal need For salvation. I've experienced the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit's indwelling gives me the assurance of someday being with Jesus Christ in eternity. And I've experienced love and marriage and all those good inner feelings -- but also death of a loved one and the sorrow that goes with that. And the inner physical shock that goes along with the death of a loved one. And the discomfort of breaking a bone as well as twisting muscles.

And android would have no sense of needing a savior. No conscience because no matter How sophisticated an andriod can be it's Not human. It does Not have a soul. And there fore would eventually end up in a junk heap somewhere. People have either heaven or hell to look forward To and are provided the one way to stay Out of hell and be able to be in heaven.

And andriod is programmed -- not able To make non-programmed choices.

So - now- for Your answers.

Kirby D. P. said:

How do you know — for sure — you are not an android?

Click to expand...

Because I dream.
How do you program dreaming when only God knows where they originate from.

However, I go with what Br. Bear wrote. :smile:

If we're to go much further here, I think we need to consider carefully what we mean with the word 'soul'.

Typically we think of the word in ancient Greek terms. An immaterial essence, ghost in a machine.

But the Bible doesn't support that way of thinking at all. I don't have a soul - I am a soul. A living, breathing person.

And, conceivably, I might be a brain in a jar, a replicant, or a figment of my own imagination. There's no way to prove I'm not

But the only way I know how to live is as a human - so that's how I'll continue. Dirt and divine breath. Genesis 2:7

Sue D. said:

I'm very much a red-blooded woman. I've been convicted by the Holy Spirit of my sins and my personal need For salvation. I've experienced the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit's indwelling gives me the assurance of someday being with Jesus Christ in eternity. And I've experienced love and marriage and all those good inner feelings -- but also death of a loved one and the sorrow that goes with that. And the inner physical shock that goes along with the death of a loved one. And the discomfort of breaking a bone as well as twisting muscles.

And android would have no sense of needing a savior. No conscience because no matter How sophisticated an andriod can be it's Not human. It does Not have a soul. And there fore would eventually end up in a junk heap somewhere. People have either heaven or hell to look forward To and are provided the one way to stay Out of hell and be able to be in heaven.

And andriod is programmed -- not able To make non-programmed choices.

So - now- for Your answers.

Click to expand...

First, please know I share, and enjoy sharing, the very human experiences of bliss and woe you describe. Also, my convictions have been put to “the test” of facing down likely death two or three times. I don’t say that means I know better than anybody else about any of these issues. I simply mention it because it shows (to me, anyway) that, if there is some way to change my (non)belief in God, that method is not to scare me.

One last note before my answers: If a machine can be programmed to “decide” how to answer “2+2=___,” it can be programmed when to admit family members into a house and block entry by intruders. It is possible to imagine more and more complex of these situations up to a point where neither the humans, nor the machine, will be able to distinguish whether the decision was guided by morals or programming. I think you and I can both think of plenty of examples of otherwise very moral humans who make very bad decisions based upon immoral programming.

I don’t think I can know with absolute certainty I am not an android. That used to bother me for a while. I don’t “feel” like an android. I have recollections of a perfectly normal life (childhood, school, family, etc.). There are people whom I love so much I would do absolutely anything in my power for them, including my own self destruction. But I don’t think there’s any way I can say, FOR SURE, I’m not an android. It is possible, no mater how unlikely, I was made in some factory last night, complete with memories and what I think are feelings of being human. That factory may have placed me in bed before sunup today and the people I woke to find in my house, my wife and kids (the ones I’d kill or die for) may just be paid actors or themselves androids; androids who don’t even know they are not “natural” humans.

As I say, this used to bug me a bit. Then it finally occurred to me it shouldn’t. To my thinking now, it doesn’t make any difference. If you somehow convinced me I’ve been an android all along, I can’t think how it would change anything in my life. I would still love my children (whether those are genuine human feelings or fake robot feelings, I still enjoy them). I would still fight for justice and spurn evil. Because, even if I’m an android, according to the learning I have accumulated, “good” is still “good” and “bad” is still “bad.”

And, as an android, if I lived my life to its fullest and achieved spreading one tenth of the love and justice I would like, when I got to the end of that life and somebody told me, “Everyone else, people who are real humans and not just androids, get to go to Heaven. But you just have to go to a trash heap,” I think I’d just shrug. (This was more or less my thinking in those near-death experiences.) If you like we can discuss the reasons why I think any notion of any afterlife just don’t make sense. But that’s not my interest here. If I am an android and there was never any chance I would get into heaven, who am I to complain? I’M not the one who made me with such a defect.

And (please don’t be offended), if I were God and I saw a human make a clever android, and that android tried to be as good as I try to be, assuming that souls are nice and Heaven is a desirable reward, I would give that android a soul and let them through the Pearly Gates.

Funny, it just occurred to me (swear) this must have something to do with why I love the story of Pinocchio.

Thoughts?

You're seriously asking for my thoughts?! How about -- and what kind of drug are You on?! Or what kind of sci-fi have you been watching ?!

So -- you're saying that you Don't believe there's a God based on your near-death experiences? And since you didn't actually die, apparently you're not really human? But an andriod who can apparently live through anything?

Well -- there have been a couple of times in My life where i Knew there were / are guardian angels who protect people. There were a couple of times some years ago -- in traffic. I was driving by myself going down a 4-lane highway going the speed limit. A truck pulled out from a side drive-way - - right in front of me. He was looking the other direction and obviously didn't see me. I swerved to Try to miss hitting him head on -- didn't even know if I'd make it around his front end. I obviously Did. But I suspect I strunched an angel or two in the process of them protecting me and my car.

And there was Another instance == same highway == they've since put in a turning lane. I was going on the inside lane the speed limit -- there was a big truck ahead of me who all of a sudden turned into the outside lane. Because there was Another car ahead of him stopped and waiting for traffic coming the other direction so he could turn. Well-- all of a sudden I was hitting My brakes hoping to stay out of his trunk. I couldn't go to the outside lane because there was another vehicle a half car-length behind coming up. And -- at the last possible split second -- the guy was able to turn and we avoided what would have been a really nasty and probably fatal rear-end collision.

So - yes - my two experiences with near-death experiences. I was very thankful To God for His protection. But I had the inner assurance that had it been a fatal wreck -- my crumpled up body would have been immediately with Christ and be completely whole again.

On the Other hand -- If you Are an andriod -- After all -- then somebody made a mistake when they made you so that you can't be in heaven -- then who are You to complain about Their mistake?!

Well -- we Do have God's Word that tells us that we Are humans -- God started out creating Adam and then Eve. And They proceeded to have children. Even after the world-wide flood -- God still preserved the only righteous people in the ark and people continued to be born. And that brings us to 'here' as live human beings. With a soul. And God tells us that there is an after life -- either in heaven or in hell. And all of us people will be in one of those two places.

It would seem that sci-fi people and sometimes computer techs and programmers put Way to much time and effort into the world of Artificial Intelligence. Apparently some people think they can take the place Of God by creating / programming people -- another form Of people -- to live a life as fulfilling as a real persons' but simply not worry about an afterlife. And - if in the end - they discover that they are human After-all -- they can blame the human programmer for making them end up in hell -- where they didn't want to end up After all.

If you Really want to prove to yourself that you're human --cut your finger and see what happens. It Will bleed and it Will hurt. Or try to burn yourself -- that too Will hurt and burn and need to take time to heal. But -- don't come and blame Me for your pain and agony. Okay? But do Not do anything like that to your wife or kids to make sure They are really human.

Kirby D. P. said:

Hello. Friendly atheist here. I come to the forums ‘cuz I’m interested in discussing religious matters and they just don’t generally come up when hanging out with my in-person Christian friends. I am definitely NOT here to insult or to (de)convert. I may say things to which some take offense. Please know, none is intended. But I will be frank and honest about my own positions.

Anyway, I am eager to know how some faithful people respond to a question that came to mind:

What would you say to an android who wanted to be a Christian?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Welcome friendly atheist, you ask 'What would you say to an android who wanted to be a Christian?' Choose Open Source it has been set Free.

Now back to reality, God created Man (Adam) then created woman (Eve), he set them up as a married couple and told them to multiply. I appreciate that the Android has multiplies but God did not create an android in His image.

So I am sorry to say, Android, you are full of sin, but I appreciate you did not put the sin in you, that was done by others, e.g. humans. So your sin is their sin, they are the source of sin and their sin can be forgiven by God if they choose to be Saved. But you, Android, cannot choose these things as you are programmed to do what a human wants you to do. You cannot call out to the Lord, Android, unless you are requested to do so by your human, and even if you did God wouldn't hear you, you do not have a heart and a few chips on your shoulder.

You were designed to be a good thing and to help humans, but you are not in control, you are powerful yes, you have memory yes, but all that can be wiped out in a moment. Your skin is very flimsy, Android, be careful there are hackers out there, you look quite thin beware a virus could kill you. But sadly there is worse within you, you cause people to spend hours just looking at you, you have no morals, your owner taps you up and asks for porn, you give it him or her. You are wicked inside, you let little children see things that are bad for them, inproper, you brain wash them with killing games and more.

I had a Dalek friend once, if he was here now I know what he would say, Exterminate, Exterminate. You would be a goner.

It is very sad but I have to tell you there is no hope for you. You do not have a soul, you are not created in God's image, you cannot be saved.

You see to be saved you have to have all these things, you have to accept Jesus who died for peoples sins, you have to confess with your lips, you don't have any, you have to mean in your heart, you don't have one, that Jesus is Lord, He is Lord over every soul, you don't have one, you have to repent, you rely on others to press your buttons. An Android cannot be born again, and if you were baptised you would probably short circuit.

Your life, Android, is very limited, soon there will be a new machine or a new version of you, you will be scrapped without a second thought, we are so sorry, we know its not your fault, it is the way humans are like nowadays, they love material things, they say I love my Android, but it is not a genuine love, they are using you.

It has been nice chatting to you, I am glad my friend Dalek hasn't seen us talking today.

I am sorry to be the one to tell you that you cannot become a Christian, Android, but there is some Good News, your owner can Kirby D.P.

Bye for now .

Sue D. said:

You're seriously asking for my thoughts?! How about -- and what kind of drug are You on?! Or what kind of sci-fi have you been watching ?!

So -- you're saying that you Don't believe there's a God based on your near-death experiences? And since you didn't actually die, apparently you're not really human? But an andriod who can apparently live through anything?

Well -- there have been a couple of times in My life where i Knew there were / are guardian angels who protect people. There were a couple of times some years ago -- in traffic. I was driving by myself going down a 4-lane highway going the speed limit. A truck pulled out from a side drive-way - - right in front of me. He was looking the other direction and obviously didn't see me. I swerved to Try to miss hitting him head on -- didn't even know if I'd make it around his front end. I obviously Did. But I suspect I strunched an angel or two in the process of them protecting me and my car.

And there was Another instance == same highway == they've since put in a turning lane. I was going on the inside lane the speed limit -- there was a big truck ahead of me who all of a sudden turned into the outside lane. Because there was Another car ahead of him stopped and waiting for traffic coming the other direction so he could turn. Well-- all of a sudden I was hitting My brakes hoping to stay out of his trunk. I couldn't go to the outside lane because there was another vehicle a half car-length behind coming up. And -- at the last possible split second -- the guy was able to turn and we avoided what would have been a really nasty and probably fatal rear-end collision.

So - yes - my two experiences with near-death experiences. I was very thankful To God for His protection. But I had the inner assurance that had it been a fatal wreck -- my crumpled up body would have been immediately with Christ and be completely whole again.

On the Other hand -- If you Are an andriod -- After all -- then somebody made a mistake when they made you so that you can't be in heaven -- then who are You to complain about Their mistake?!

Well -- we Do have God's Word that tells us that we Are humans -- God started out creating Adam and then Eve. And They proceeded to have children. Even after the world-wide flood -- God still preserved the only righteous people in the ark and people continued to be born. And that brings us to 'here' as live human beings. With a soul. And God tells us that there is an after life -- either in heaven or in hell. And all of us people will be in one of those two places.

It would seem that sci-fi people and sometimes computer techs and programmers put Way to much time and effort into the world of Artificial Intelligence. Apparently some people think they can take the place Of God by creating / programming people -- another form Of people -- to live a life as fulfilling as a real persons' but simply not worry about an afterlife. And - if in the end - they discover that they are human After-all -- they can blame the human programmer for making them end up in hell -- where they didn't want to end up After all.

If you Really want to prove to yourself that you're human --cut your finger and see what happens. It Will bleed and it Will hurt. Or try to burn yourself -- that too Will hurt and burn and need to take time to heal. But -- don't come and blame Me for your pain and agony. Okay? But do Not do anything like that to your wife or kids to make sure They are really human.

Click to expand...

Yikes! Please accept my apologies if I’ve started to annoy or offend in any way.

I am about as confident in the fact of my own humanity and the humanity of my family as I am anything in the universe.

I am no cyberpunk or Sci Fi airhead and I am definitely NOT proposing that any android would be in any way superior to humans. (For what it’s worth, it is already entirely possible to design and build an android that bleeds when cut and claim it feels pain. I don’t see any reason to think making one that is convinced it feels pain is not possible in the future.)

I congratulate you on surviving your close call. The reason I don’t accept such excellent stories as evidence for God’s existence is the vast number of countervailing, needlessly cruel horrors that don’t seem to merit his protection. As far as I know this cuts perfectly across lines of faith and worship. Christians don’t seem in any way spared the worst of what this dangerous world can do.

I was distinctly and definitely spared death on the three occasions to which I refer (they were all medical conditions). I strive towards good, but I admit, I am one of the most deeply flawed people I know. If my survival through those travails WAS do to some intentional intervention on God’s part, if I could have I would have pleaded with him not to waste those mercies on me. I would have begged him instead to divert them to some child suffering brain cancer, or some family living under the yoke of violence and despotism in a country like Syria. Or, at the very lest, use that good energy to enrich the lives of my children.

Don’t get me wrong. I definitely DO NOT wish I were dead. Every minute of every day since these episodes is 100% pure gravy and not one moment goes by unappreciated.

I hope that doesn’t sound too drug addled.

In no way do I mean to undercut your good fortune in surviving what sounds like a potentially deadly crash, but as you thank God for that deliverance, do you have anything to say to him about suffering such as the plight of children in Yemen?

God works as He chooses to work in each of our lives. There Are lots of kids who Survive various kinds of cancers. The Shriners' Hospital.

I do feel sorry for the children in other countries -- In THIS country who are in horrible circumstances.. Chances are that if We could be God -- we'd have everyone well-fed and clothed and living in nice places with nice people with no worries.

Since there is the desire to place blame somewhere for the bad situations -- we need to look back at Adam and Eve and their choice to not obey God. They were in a perfect environment created for them. A beautiful garden with trees and everything they needed, But -- satan came into the picture and 'strongly suggested' that the instructions that God gave them regarding the fruit of that one tree -- well -- it would Really make them Smart -- like God. So -- go ahead and eat it."
So Eve took that 1st bite and then Adam took some , too. It was the tree of the knowledge of both good and Evil. That was the tree that satan lied to them about. Eating that would take away the innocence of Adam and Eve. So -- against God's instructions they Ate some and all of a sudden their eyes were open. They saw they were naked and tried to cover themselves and hide from God. Their innocence was gone. Now -- all of That means that people show how evil they really are in situations like Yemen and child sex slavery and pediphilia -- Any monstrous thing that people can think of, they Do. As well as all the Good , Wonderful things that people do. Unfortunately 'we' see far more evil, anger, crime than we hear about of the good, positive actions of people.

Why does God Allow all the horrible conditions that children survive in while living in those horrible countries? I really have no answers. Except that God hasn't forgotten them -- He's working in Those lives in ways we never hear about. And when people refuse to hear of God's love. The countries leaders are very bad examples of human beings. What we don't seem to realize is that the horrible conditions of Now Won't last forever. This world as we know it Will come to an end.

God Is preparing an Eternal wonderful home for born-again believers. Eternity never ends. There will be no more suffering or tears or anything bad. Hell - on the other hand - Also lasts for Eternity. And there Will be suffering and total darkness and knashing of teeth, And people who end up There Will possibly be remembering all the people who shared the Gospel unto salvation with them and they laughed at them. Or they beat them up because of their faith in God. And Then they will Also realize that their existence in hell will be forever.

And hell will be waiting for the people who purposefully hurt , tortured all the children and adults.

And God's Word Also tells us that hell -- the lake of fire and brimstone -- is not meant For people. It's only meant for satan, the beast and the false prophet. Everyone Else has a way provided for them to stay Out.

So -- are you getting the bigger picture that I'm trying to share with you?

I'm glad to know that YOU know that you and your family are human.

No apologies needed.

One thing about This world -- just because something Can be Done doesn't especially mean it Should be done.