Quantrill
Active
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 869
thoughts on Luke 22-31;32
- Thread starter Dave M
- Start date
Quantrill
Active
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 869
Are you still curious about satan accusing the believers before God as you requested in post [HASH=1687]#(30[/HASH])? Or were you simply hoping it was overlooked?
Quantrill
regibassman57
Active
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2018
- Messages
- 1,204
Happens all the time... This is nothing new on this forum. Everyone on this forum can bring something to the table. My purpose is to understand your thoughts about a subject matter.
Quantrill
Active
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 869
None of what you have said proves one way or another that it is God that permitted satan's coming against Peter or any of the others I listed. It all sounds good, but avoided the point in question.
Quantrill
Quantrill
Active
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 869
Then create another thread, as I said. I am not opposed to giving my thoughts in the context of the argument.
Quantrill
Dovegiven
Active
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 1,083
Satan has had some access to some place where God meets them inside of or in a gate of Heaven. He will lose that privilege just before the Tribulation, to the great joy and delight of the inhabitants of Heaven. That will end the great mystery of God putting up with the Devil so long and at such a high price of misery. It has to do with His holy justice, which may not match up with Man's version. Modern societies pattern their courts along that line, a judge, a prosecuting attorney, a defense attorney, a defendant, and a jury of observers. All that is in Heaven in a courtroom of God with Jesus the Defense attorney.
They say only a fool represents himself.
regibassman57
Active
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2018
- Messages
- 1,204
@Quantrill,
I did post it for an answer from you...
I did post it for an answer from you...
Dave M
Loyal
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2015
- Messages
- 4,868
Quantrill
Active
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 869
Dovegiven
Active
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 1,083
Jesus knew Satan wanted to sift Peter like wheat, and we learn the prayers of Jesus protected him and the others. Then we read on to learn things would no longer be the same, considering Jesus would be departed. They would have to do for themselves what Jesus had provided. We know Jesus would be in a better place to pray for us, to intercede from His throne. Of how much importance is it then for brethren to pray for brethren?
It's clear to me that there are specific reasons besides the obvious, sin and iniquities not quite a defined sin, that Satan gets access to people, even Christians. A lack of prayer. Insufficient fasting. Doubt and unbelief. Failure to put on Christ daily and keeping the armor in place. Being ourselves out of place determined by the Holy Spirit. Listening to the Devil to the point of letting him influence us, including "winking at sin". Pride of one's inward power unto mistakenly taking on Satan in his fury, something warned against in Jude. Depending on others to meet the qualifications to resist the Devil, while not learning to do the right things as commanded. There are many more doors that if left cracked allows the entrance of evil.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 12,308
Me neither. That is why I pointed it to Brother Wired4Fishen who was the originator of the comment to see if he'd help us all out with the Scripture that supports his comment.
Bendito
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2015
- Messages
- 3,854
Hmmm What did Jesus pray for Peter? "But I prayed for you, Shim‘on, that your trust might not fail. And you, once you have turned back in repentance, strengthen your brothers!”
So Peter still had doing to do. And Jesus prayed that Peters faith would be strengthened.....So then...It was still up to Peter to do what needed to be done. Jesus did not pray for protection only for a strengthening of faith..
And yes! Sin, and unbelief do open doors to the enemy to attack us. So where does the protection come in? Protection is a covenant promise....And Peter was a covenant man, serving a covenant God.
Dovegiven
Active
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 1,083
I am not on record saying God permitted Satan to tempt Jesus or Peter. I have not said God sent Satan to tempt Jesus. Satan has been given free It was an epic "hour" for Jesus, one of several to come, for Jesus to glorify the Father, in that case a great fast of self denial and fleshly suffering.
I pray prayers including how Jesus taught, that God would not lead me into temptation. I pray His will be done here as it is in Heaven, too. That is praying His will, an acknowledgment it isn't God that does that, but Satan is free range to tempt anyone he can find, to roam tempting anyone subject to temptation. My God leads me into righteousness, with instructions for resisting temptations, not letting those give birth to sins.
Jesus already had that capacity, being a man who always kept the commandments of God all His days. Being subject to temptation is no reason to believe Satan will not try. It is his career to tempt. Jesus was already full of the word of God, His sole defense, which sent the Devil away in defeat. But he came back, again and again, whether against Jesus or His disciples. Satan won Judas, according to prophecy. The prophecy was not God arranging the betrayal, but that God knew who would do it.
All we know about Satan wanting to sift Peter is that Jesus knew Satan wanted Peter, a man full of boasting and boldness needing censure by Jesus, somewhat perhaps like he wanted to get his hands on Job. Job was not under a covenant of protection, but the simple mercy and kindness of God toward a man who sought the right. Peter was under the direct protection of Jesus while with them, like disciples following a rabbi in those days had protection of the rabbi.
regibassman57
Active
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2018
- Messages
- 1,204
@Doveegiven,
Believers are not standing still in this world without going forward and being on the offense. Remember, we are going forward not retreating or standing still. The Earth is the Lords and the fulness thereof; but the spirit of the world is evil overall. It's a matter of perception. Every time a believer wakes and/or steps out their door they are going somewhere and will be tried because the devil wants believers to give up. Believers are tried daily in the wilderness of this fallen world and expected to fail in the devil's mind and the minds of those that are unbelievers. The system of the world is basically evil and will become more evil as time goes by. But we as believers do take the offensive going forward regardless of the evil we encounter in this world. We just have to make sure we are equipped and prayed up as we enter into society on any particular day. As I said the world is the wilderness and evil is waiting for us daily. The evil is not physical but emotionally seeking to take our peace from us. God leads us into situations in life that we without Him may not want to deal with. It could be anything. Example: I choose not to frequent certain places because sinners are their. God will sometimes lead you there to deal with a spirit of fear inside you. True it depends on the place and situation. If God desires for a believer to take the victory over something that He sees, He will lead them to deal with it, The warfare is inside of believers so God may lead us places to overcome the certain spirits that we've been fighting since birth. Only God can lead us into victory over certain spirits and situations. Without God's leading some situations will remain; but the believer must have faith going into things God may lead them into.
Believers are not standing still in this world without going forward and being on the offense. Remember, we are going forward not retreating or standing still. The Earth is the Lords and the fulness thereof; but the spirit of the world is evil overall. It's a matter of perception. Every time a believer wakes and/or steps out their door they are going somewhere and will be tried because the devil wants believers to give up. Believers are tried daily in the wilderness of this fallen world and expected to fail in the devil's mind and the minds of those that are unbelievers. The system of the world is basically evil and will become more evil as time goes by. But we as believers do take the offensive going forward regardless of the evil we encounter in this world. We just have to make sure we are equipped and prayed up as we enter into society on any particular day. As I said the world is the wilderness and evil is waiting for us daily. The evil is not physical but emotionally seeking to take our peace from us. God leads us into situations in life that we without Him may not want to deal with. It could be anything. Example: I choose not to frequent certain places because sinners are their. God will sometimes lead you there to deal with a spirit of fear inside you. True it depends on the place and situation. If God desires for a believer to take the victory over something that He sees, He will lead them to deal with it, The warfare is inside of believers so God may lead us places to overcome the certain spirits that we've been fighting since birth. Only God can lead us into victory over certain spirits and situations. Without God's leading some situations will remain; but the believer must have faith going into things God may lead them into.
Bendito
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2015
- Messages
- 3,854
God does not lead us into bad situations for any reason..
James 1:13 (CJB)
13 No one being tempted should say, “I am being tempted by God.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, and God himself tempts no one.
regibassman57
Active
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2018
- Messages
- 1,204
@Bendito,
Never have believed God tempts with evil. Jesus going into a sinners house or everyone of His trials were not evil. I do realize God will not tempt a man with evil. But what seems evil to you may not be evil to God. God telling Ezekiel to bake cakes using human dung was not evil to God, but how did Ezekiel think about it (Ezekiel 4:12).
Never have believed God tempts with evil. Jesus going into a sinners house or everyone of His trials were not evil. I do realize God will not tempt a man with evil. But what seems evil to you may not be evil to God. God telling Ezekiel to bake cakes using human dung was not evil to God, but how did Ezekiel think about it (Ezekiel 4:12).
Dovegiven
Active
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2012
- Messages
- 1,083
I agree with some of that, so will try to blend in on your comment as much as possible. There is a difference between standing still in the Spirit, being unmovable except by the Holy Spirit, our commander inside us, and doing the works of Christ in the body, which involves our own self maintenance body, soul and spirit, and reaching out to a lost world. We work to spread the gospel of Christ, and yes, but taking the offense as though working for a victory is regarded by the world as akin to Crusaders. We each are running a spiritual race, not side by side competing as the world does, but seeking to succeed at the will of God for us.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27 (KJV)
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Is it not sufficient to bring our own body into subjection that we stay useful to preach the gospel?
Hebrews 12:6-8 (KJV)
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
That passage returns to the running a race concept, not leading a charge against an enemy. God chastens (corrects, instructs) us, and flogs (spanks) rather than judge, condemn and punish, not testing, not sending us into temptations anywhere, anytime. If we enter into temptation He has equipped us to handle it. If that fails, it's time to go back and get prepared before returning into some temptation. He doesn't lead us to go into temptation. Satan and his family (children of perdition) does that. Jesus is our victory, so having Him is His goal for us, and to introduce Christ to others. If passing a test was required to please God, then salvation would be based partially on our own works of righteousness. He didn't add tests to prove our position of righteousness. An evidence of faith, not a test of it, is righteous works that in themselves do not establish us in Christ. They are what His rewards are about.
While Daniel prayed three weeks, Michael the arc angel battled the principality. Angels fight angels. We are to pray until our messenger breaks through. Ours is the spiritual. We don't have to rely on an angel fighting for things the Holy Spirit in us can accomplish, such as dealing with our fears inwardly.
One night a preacher asked me to go with him to minister in a prison. His testimony described being locked inside a room with sometimes 8 men, the jailer leaving to watch on camera. I didn't sleep that night, imagining all sorts of scenarios, and dreaming up excuses not to go. I just didn't want to do it. It messed up a week. The day came and he came to pick me up. I got in, trembling inside. I was thinking "Why, what's the point? They won't listen." Right then from inside came "I will be with you, do not fear. You are prepared." The preacher drove on. Stopping the next light, he looked at me and said just "I will be in there with you." He knew. That killed the fear.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 12,308
Dear @Dovegiven
Appreciate feeling that fear brother!
A paralyzing fear! So, totally overwhelming to me that I was immobilized I could barely speak and had no clarity of thought whatsoever, but the "fear" and every thought the enemy could throw at me in generating it. For me it took shouting out the name of Jesus, which broke that fear and then jumping out of my seat and running out the door to go about the task that needed doing!!!
For me it was and is the realization that there is power in the name of Jesus, and whenever that fear tries to present itself again.....it takes off at the name above all other names Jesus!!!
Thanks for reminding me of that memory brother.
Apologies for diverting from the subject, to post this.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Appreciate feeling that fear brother!
A paralyzing fear! So, totally overwhelming to me that I was immobilized I could barely speak and had no clarity of thought whatsoever, but the "fear" and every thought the enemy could throw at me in generating it. For me it took shouting out the name of Jesus, which broke that fear and then jumping out of my seat and running out the door to go about the task that needed doing!!!
For me it was and is the realization that there is power in the name of Jesus, and whenever that fear tries to present itself again.....it takes off at the name above all other names Jesus!!!
Thanks for reminding me of that memory brother.
Apologies for diverting from the subject, to post this.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Dave M
Loyal
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2015
- Messages
- 4,868
man I used to dream this all the time, and since I got saved I do not recall ever dreaming this again
regibassman57
Active
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2018
- Messages
- 1,204
@Dovegiven,
I believe also that we are running a race and the race is not against other human beings. As you know we are fighting literally against spiritual beings that seek to take our peace from us and our victory. There are many different anxieties of life that people are born with as well as many different characteristics that is not of God that must be overcome. God is our deliverer and He speaks to us about what we need to do in order to be delivered of a spirit we wrestle against.
When I understand emotions, I liken them to the enemies of Israel that were seeking to prevent them from entering the "rest" God had for them in the promise land. There are times that God will lead believers into situation to make a believer deal with the enemy. I don't believe that God changes His methods of thought against the enemy in the times of warfare. We can understand how God led Israel through the wilderness and when He desired for them to become the aggressors, on offense, when He had them to take the land. Certain ways. Some people were fearful and some were game. But it was all done in Righteousness. God did not lead Israel into temptation when He willed for them to go and fight, He wanted them to believe by faith what He was telling them to do. God does and can do all things exceedingly abundantly above all that we can ask or think.
Ezekiel 4:12... Do you think this is an evil temptation? I don't.
You and all believers are required to bring a certain amount of fruit to pass in Christ or you will be gathered out of the body of Christ (Mat. 13:17-24, 39-42). Our faith is proven as Romans 5:3-5 explains. James 1:2-4 1Peter 1:7). It is only through faith can a believer learn how to love Christ. And without loving Christ a person will not inherit Eternal Life. This all stems from faith. Anyone can say they believe, but it's the endurance through the fiery trials that determines who will continue to believe or not. Faith is seen and proven through a person's works and love is developed through the trial and seen through obedience.
I believe also that we are running a race and the race is not against other human beings. As you know we are fighting literally against spiritual beings that seek to take our peace from us and our victory. There are many different anxieties of life that people are born with as well as many different characteristics that is not of God that must be overcome. God is our deliverer and He speaks to us about what we need to do in order to be delivered of a spirit we wrestle against.
When I understand emotions, I liken them to the enemies of Israel that were seeking to prevent them from entering the "rest" God had for them in the promise land. There are times that God will lead believers into situation to make a believer deal with the enemy. I don't believe that God changes His methods of thought against the enemy in the times of warfare. We can understand how God led Israel through the wilderness and when He desired for them to become the aggressors, on offense, when He had them to take the land. Certain ways. Some people were fearful and some were game. But it was all done in Righteousness. God did not lead Israel into temptation when He willed for them to go and fight, He wanted them to believe by faith what He was telling them to do. God does and can do all things exceedingly abundantly above all that we can ask or think.
Ezekiel 4:12... Do you think this is an evil temptation? I don't.
You and all believers are required to bring a certain amount of fruit to pass in Christ or you will be gathered out of the body of Christ (Mat. 13:17-24, 39-42). Our faith is proven as Romans 5:3-5 explains. James 1:2-4 1Peter 1:7). It is only through faith can a believer learn how to love Christ. And without loving Christ a person will not inherit Eternal Life. This all stems from faith. Anyone can say they believe, but it's the endurance through the fiery trials that determines who will continue to believe or not. Faith is seen and proven through a person's works and love is developed through the trial and seen through obedience.
