Wired 4 Fishen
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No!! Its never Gods Will for any of His to fail
thoughts on Luke 22-31;32
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Quantrill
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Not in this instance. And not in Job's.
Remember, satan, is not God. He cannot be everywhere at the same time tempting and destroying believers. Percentage wise I doubt few believers have actually been tempted by him. He has others to do his work as He goes after the big fish. But Peter was a big fish, and satan desired to have him. And God permitted it.
And yes, I am telling you what I believe the Scripture is saying.
Quantrill
regibassman57
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@Wired 4 Fishen,
I agree... I was just asking to see what type of responses I would get. There are people that will say it was God's will so that when Peter fail, he could have a better understanding and strengthen the brothers when he became converted.
I agree... I was just asking to see what type of responses I would get. There are people that will say it was God's will so that when Peter fail, he could have a better understanding and strengthen the brothers when he became converted.
Wired 4 Fishen
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Thank you for an honest reply.
You really do not have a lot of understanding how satan and his kingdom functions especially where Believers are concerned.
Of course its not satan that is here doing actual work. However it is he who we do command first.
We all had a demon assigned
to each of us. As we grow Spiritually we will out grow our assigned demon and a little higher classed one will replace them.
However this is not what we are talking about now is it?
You do realize that there is no place in the new testament where we are told to pray to God about the devil and He will do anything about the devil.
No friend we are told to do something about the devil and if we don't then nothing gets done. Jesus can't do anything about the devil or his crew if we don't first.
God is not granting satan permission to do anything to a NT believer.
Remember Scripture says God never changes HOWEVER how He deals with man has.
God will not deal with man outside of a covenant. Once God makes a covenant with man, He is bound to it for the time line He has set.
You can not use how God dealt with man from within one covenant and into another especially when one covenant does away with the other.
Blessings
Quantrill
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My point was that satan himself does not go after every individual. But he does go after some. And in the instances recorded in the Scripture those he went after was first permitted by God. Job and Peter. Oh, and lets not forget Adam and Eve. Also, Jesus Christ. (Matt. 4:1)
Whether we have assigned demons attached to us throughout our lives, I don't know. It is quite possible. They accuse us before God. But I don't know of any Scripture to support it. Do you?
satan and his system is an oppression upon the whole world of mankind. And it is more so with the believers. That system exists only because God permitts it to exist for His purpose. You say God is not permitting it. If that is the case, then satan is out of God's control. Which, doesn't make Him much of a God. Your view leaves many loose ends.
Yes, God never changes. And neither does satan. No matter what covenant a believer may be under, satan's methods are still the same. And no matter what covenant a believer may be under, God's methods, as far as permitting satan to have them, remain the same. Peter was under the Old Covenant. Possibly the only covenant Job was under would have been the Noahic covenant. Adam and Eve were under the Edenic covenant. And Jesus Christ was under the Old Covenant. Not every covenant does away with the other. In fact, most do not. The Edenic covenant is done away as the whole world changed as a result of failure under it. The Law is done away as it is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. As far as I can remember, the rest of the covenants are still in place. These covenants are between man and God and reflect how man is to respond to God, and God to man. They change nothing about the relationship between God and satan.
Quantrill
regibassman57
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@Quantrill,
Just curious why you would assume Satan's Kingdom accuses believers before God if you have no scriptural references?
Just curious why you would assume Satan's Kingdom accuses believers before God if you have no scriptural references?
Dovegiven
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No. When tempted by Satan in the wilderness told him to get behind him. He did that when Peter blundered with words.
Matthew 16:22-23 (KJV)
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
A third scripture indicating what God wants concerning the approach of Satan is
James 4:7-10 (KJV)
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Further, our assigned position is best explained to stand your ground, not to go on an offensive against Satan, nor run away from him.
Ephesians 6:10-18 (KJV)
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
regibassman57
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@Dovegiven,
Would you say God leads believers into wilderness experiences to prove their faith; as He proved Jesus and Israel? And because we are being led by God's Spirit, would you say we are on the offense, going forward, as well as being on the defense putting on the whole amour of God that we may stand against the wiles of the devil?
Would you say God leads believers into wilderness experiences to prove their faith; as He proved Jesus and Israel? And because we are being led by God's Spirit, would you say we are on the offense, going forward, as well as being on the defense putting on the whole amour of God that we may stand against the wiles of the devil?
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I can only assume he is making reference to Revelation 12:10.
Quantrill
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That we, as believers, are accused by satan's host does have Scriptural reference as Christ4Ever showed in (Rev. 12:10). What doesn't have Scriptural support that I am aware of is your statement that we, the believers, are assigned an angel of satan. What do you base that on?
Quantrill
Dovegiven
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Rev 12 tells that the future has Satan banished from God's presence, no longer allowed to bring accusations of Jesus' brethren before Him. It goes on to say Satan, the Devil, has no other place to go, so rips and tears on earth, bringing the "woes" on earth, knowing he has only 3.5 years left before being locked up for a thousand years. He presides over the great tribulation among men, while angels from Heaven pour out vials of wrath.
regibassman57
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@Quantrill,
Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Revelation 12:8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
When did this war in Heaven take place, and when was the devil cast out?
When was the devil condemned?
When was all power given unto Jesus Christ?
Was the whole world deceived after Christ rose from the dead?
Heaven was purified by Jesus when all power was given unto Jesus Christ in Heaven and Earth.(Heb. 9:23, 24).
You have me confused with someone else on this. I didn't make that statement.
Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Revelation 12:8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
When did this war in Heaven take place, and when was the devil cast out?
When was the devil condemned?
When was all power given unto Jesus Christ?
Was the whole world deceived after Christ rose from the dead?
Heaven was purified by Jesus when all power was given unto Jesus Christ in Heaven and Earth.(Heb. 9:23, 24).
You have me confused with someone else on this. I didn't make that statement.
regibassman57
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Can you help them please with your comment from Post#24
@Quantrill @regibassman57 @Dovegiven
I do believe brothers that it was Brother @Wired 4 Fishen that first mentioned the comment as shown above.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Dave M
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Dave M
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@Dovegiven so this happens sometime around the tribulation period?? Satan is still up in the third heaven standing before God Accusing people as of today ??
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No. Jesus was led by the Spirit to a specific place where Jesus "stood". I have no doubt Satan deliberately followed Jesus around, being the prime "person of interest" alive at that time. It was the Devil who approached Jesus. The scriptures are silent about any movement from Jesus. He was fasting a long fast. It doesn't indicate that experience was designed to "prove Jesus' faith" as I've heard preached a few times. When Jesus was water baptized God gave His vocal approval of His beloved Son. All through the ages military wisdom has held it's best to hold your ground, not advancing. You let the enemy move, exposing themselves. Moses stood still until the army of Egypt was drowned in the sea. Had they moved on what probably have happened?
Christians are not called to engage in battles with Satan. We are to submit to God, resist as by proper wearing of spiritual armor, and know the Devil will flee until his next attack, when we must stick to the plan. The armor is for defense only, most of it designed for the soldier to stand facing the enemy, not showing one's backside.
I read a WWI book about an American stuck with mostly British troops in a ditch, facing Germans in another ditch a few hundred yards away. Al had been entrenched for weeks until an officer on the Allied side apparently got bored, so led an attack. The witness was terrified, running across the field through a hail of bullets. He could see every soldier ahead of him falling. He woke up in a POW camp nearly paralyzed from wounds, amazed over the terrific loss due to leaving the place they were ordered to take a stand. What a blunder!
Stand facing Satan, in the authority of Christ in us, do not attack, do not flee, but pray and stay in faith believing God will handle it. Jesus did, and the angels came to minister to Him where He was fasting.
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A thought Dave....If we have dominion in the Earth, then does Satan NEED God's permission? Or do we allow it? Do WE allow Satan access to our lives? Again it's a matter of legality.
At one other point, God told a man about Satan waiting to do it to him. If you don’t do what is good, sin is crouching at the door — it wants you, but you can rule over it. God expected this man Kayin to do what was right and beat the devil. Same with Peter?
Quantrill
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You entered on my comments to another. Thus my mistake in considering the rest of my post to you..
You ask many questions concerning many things all of which could be a thread in themselves. What is your purpose?
Quantrill
