Christ4Ever said:

So, please don't narrow each others methodology in presenting the Gospel by stating that it can only be done this way or that way, and if its not then you are wrong because of (fill with the verse of your choice).

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I cant help but think of a movie I recently watched when reading this. There was a scene in the movie where they had some loving people ready to preach the gospel in Love, going out to the boulevard where all the hookers and drug dealers and gang members were hanging out. They had plenty of experience going to this place and in the past always had lots of people at least curios about what they had to say. But this particular time no one seemed to care and most avoided them. As they were packing up and walking down the street a little bit, they noticed several people marching with signs, on the signs said things like "repent or go to Hell you wicked people", something like that . No one wanted anything to do with hearing the gospel that day.

perhaps its better to show them your light then talk about there darkness?

povawiqe said:

. He also commands, "you shall rebuke your neighbor frankly as to not partake in his sin". If you do not rebuke, then you are a partaker. You must speak out, as we all do.

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Again I will speak the word from within the Covenant We Are Under.

LOVE your neighbor as you love yourself

Dave M said:

perhaps its better to show them your light then talk about there darkness?

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Exactly!!
Its called Good News for a reason .

Wired 4 Fishen said:

Again I will speak the word from within the Covenant We Are Under.

LOVE your neighbor as you love yourself

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Love your neighbor as yourself does not mean "don't tell your neighbor that what they're doing is wrong".

Wired 4 Fishen said:

Exactly!!
Its called Good News for a reason .

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The good news involves repenting from sin.

povawiqe said:

He also commands, "you shall rebuke your neighbor frankly as to not partake in his sin". If you do not rebuke, then you are a partaker.

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Dear Povawiqe, (Heavy sigh)
I'm sure you rebuke them in a loving way as possible.
Understanding the power of sin in their lives, and the deception that they have fallen into believing of course.
Right?

Understanding that our Lord called it like it was, but was also compassionate. If you lack that compassion brother, don't believe that you're loving them by just identifying to them their sin. Pharisee's, Sadducees and others identified many a sin to the people, but we know how the Lord treated their type of righteousness. Please don't be included in their number.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

@Fragrant Grace
Dear Sister,
Whenever I pray for my Sister, I also include your Mother & her partner in them as well.
Praying for their Salvation, not dictating the method, but bowing that our requests may
be fulfilled within His will for them. Always and only in the Name of Jesus Christ. Amen!

Stay faithful & keep praying!!!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Christ4Ever said:

Dear Povawiqe, (Heavy sigh)
I'm sure you rebuke them in a loving way as possible.
Understanding the power of sin in their lives, and the deception that they have fallen into believing of course.
Right?

Understanding that our Lord called it like it was, but was also compassionate. If you lack that compassion brother, don't believe that you're loving them by just identifying to them their sin. Pharisee's, Sadducees and others identified many a sin to the people, but we know how the Lord treated their type of righteousness. Please don't be included in their number.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

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Sometimes I rebuke gently, or sometimes I rebuke sternly. I speak to homosexuals with authority, because I was one of them.

Out in the darkness,
Shadowed by sin,
Souls are in bondage,
Souls we would win.
How can we win them?
How show the way?
“Love never faileth,”
Love is the way.

See, they are waiting,
Looking at you,
Silently watching
All that you do;
Seeming so careless,
Hardened and lost:
“Love never faileth,”
Count not the cost.

“Love never faileth,”
Love is pure gold:
Love is what Jesus
Came to unfold;
Love these souls thru us,
Savior, we pray;
Thy love ne’er faileth,
Love is Thy way.

Hymn Flora Kirkland (Early 20th Century)

povawiqe said:

Sometimes I rebuke gently, or sometimes I rebuke sternly. I speak to homosexuals with authority, because I was one of them.

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Thank-you for sharing that Brother. I know that could not have been easy to do, but you did it anyway to show the truth of your words. For our witness/testimony is the most powerful words we can share to one who does not know the Lord as their Savior and even to those who do. Who better than one who says I can share your pain to convict/guide one and if necessary rebuke one in order to share the Gospel in the Love it was intended to be shared? Like the Lord, who came in the flesh and understands what we face each and every day.

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on [him the nature of] angels; but he took on [him] the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto [his] brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. Hebrews 2:14-18

Still, He was able as you have rightly stated in your own life, able to rebuke gently, or sometimes sternly, because you understand and can have compassion if needed for those so afflicted. There in is the Love of humanity displayed to the ones who need it the most, the yet unforgiven sinner. I hope in my explaining it, has not diminished what you have tried to communicate, but rather interpreted it to where others might understand the fullness of your words yet unspoken. In the Love of the Lord.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

=

Fragrant Grace said:

Greetings gentleman @povawiqe @KingJ @Wired 4 Fishen

Sharing a personal note here for perspective

My mother is an atheist and she lives with her partner in a gay relationship.

Anything "Christian" or "Biblical" said to her is met with argumentative dispute, hatred and anger.

However, over the past few years, all glory to God, I have just communicated with love and kindness to her. Never ever condoning her relationship....but just being calm and loving in communications.

She and her partner are unsaved and their hearts are not yet convicted of this sexual sin.
Condemning her would shoot up even more angry barriers against the Lord

Pray for those lost souls caught in abominable sin


And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto Him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
They say unto Him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest Thou?
This they said, tempting Him, that they might have to accuse Him.
But Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up Himself, and saw none but the woman, He said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8:1-11

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Thanks for sharing and my heart goes out to you for your mother.

I feel you are passing / pleasing God with flying colors though.

1. Your mom knows you disagree 100% with her choice.
2. You are there for her. You associate with her. You will lay your life down for her.

We are in this world to associate with sinners and lead them to the Lord. It is those that profess to be Christians that we need to be cautious of. 1 Cor 5 is crystal clear on this. 1 Cor 5:11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral. ''Not even associate''.

Fragrant Grace said:

Condemning her would shoot up even more angry barriers against the Lord

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This we need to further discuss. I agree in the context of condemning equating to being stoned to death as in the scripture you quoted. I disagree in context of telling them, they are going to hell if they continue in it and do not truthfully repent. Note Jesus said, ''go and sin no more''. She was forgiven and had to go and sin no more. What would have happened if she sinned the same sin further? Would He have stopped her second stoning? Mortal sins (GLBT) are not sins that we 'work on'.

We must be so careful of beating around the bush and losing our saltiness. A Christian is to be salty. Matt 5:13 You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Fragrant Grace said:

Anything "Christian" or "Biblical" said to her is met with argumentative dispute, hatred and anger.

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This from the unsaved always amazes me. When the unsaved called us / me bible punchers or what not. It is completely nonsensical.

I have discussed this subject at length on atheist forums. They take offense with someone trying to help them escape eternal suffering? They get upset when you speak to them about a God that lay His life down for them? That tells His followers to love their enemies and turn the left the cheek. The only argument that holds water against us is if we harass them. Jesus tells us to wipe the dust off our feet and move on. Not to persist and harass.

I have a rule with the unsaved around me. They drive in my car, they listen to Christian music. They invite me to their house, they hear me preach. God makes it that they need me for something. He opens the door. The open door is the invite. We must not now, not preach the truth when with them.

When we are with the unsaved we need to grasp that unless they truthfully repent, they are going to a place of separation from God for all eternity. Everytime your mom invites you over, you must preach / share some scripture with her. She must grasp that that is 'your speech'. That is 'you'.

Many here do not grasp the context of this thread. We are discussing GLBT. Not casual sin. Sin that in the OT upset God so much that He ordained a stoning to death as a fitting punishment. Think on that. This has to sink in. God has thoughts of dropping sulfur and brimstone on the heads of such sinners!!

So you say ''love your neighbor as yourself''. Good. Now just try grasp that in this thread your neighbor is a grievous sinner. Close to being sold out to sin. Very close to eternity in hell.

What did God do to Paul? Paul was a murderer. God knocked him off his horse and paid him a visit. Focus on the fact that it was ''drastic'' action by God.

God did not drop feathers on him. Did Jesus say to the adulteress in John 8, ''Go and lets work on your sin. Step by step over a period of a year''.

We need to be so careful on GLBT sins. We can so easily be guilty of 'multiplying kiss and being their enemy' Prov 27:6.

Our message to the GLBT needs to be on par with Jesus's message to the young rich man, to the adulteress, to Paul.

You will be rejected. You will be hated and called all sorts. Welcome to Christianity. When those 'extremely' wicked people are alone with their thoughts and meditate on you and what you have said, they will grasp that you love them.

KingJ said:

Everytime your mom invites you over, you must preach / share some scripture with her. She must grasp that that is 'your speech'. That is 'you'.

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Better yet spend some time praying in the Spirit before going over and let the Holy Spirit lead you when and what is said. That will never fail.
Blessings

Christ4Ever said:

The Holy Spirit will move one to what words are needed for not only teaching, but convicting of them of the "sin" that requires them to not only know, but repent of, if they are to be Saved.

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Just picking your post apart. What do you mean ''if they are to be Saved''?

What if you think the Holy Spirit is telling you to say something but He is in fact not? Surely scripture is the bottom line? If one knows scripture, they can know what to say. Especially in the case of a sin like the sin we discussing.

Too many become too spiritual and assume the Holy Spirit is inspiring them. When it is just their emotions that don't want to offend or be offended. Scripture is our go to. Scripture is crystal clear on what they need to know from us and on how we need to treat them. Scripture becomes the bottom line with disagreement like those between Wired4Fishen and me.

Christ4Ever said:

So, please don't narrow each others methodology in presenting the Gospel by stating that it can only be done this way or that way, and if its not then you are wrong because of (fill with the verse of your choice).

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If we were discussing sin in general you are correct / have a point. But we are not.

Different methodology applies where the person in question is not a mortal sinner.

Example: I commit adultery. I get married. I continue in adultery. What advice do you give me? Do you say ''come to church, lets go to therapy and let's work on committing less and less adultery''? If the sin was watching porn. Yes, you can say that. Yes, different Christians can propose different options. One may say, unplug the internet. Another may say, that is too harsh, just put parental control on. Another may hope that their presence and prayers cause me to stop. This is not the case for adultery. Every Christian should just outright state, ''stop it immediately'' you are going to get divorced. Any beating around the bush is … suspicious.

Christ4Ever said:

Remember that we are not saving anyone. Just be grateful, that He would use us as vessels for His will & work to be done, in whatever manner that may be.

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Agreed, but we just have to be crystal clear on the fact that God does need us. It is part of His greater plan to allow for true free will. He needs 'representatives'. If He visited everyone whilst in sin, the rules change completely as He is showing partiality. This is why when a society gets too corrupted that His representatives cannot get through sufficiently to the wicked, He brings destruction and change.

Many GLBT are in full church attendance with no inclination of changing. No conviction that their lifestyle is wrong. That is because too many Christians don't know their bible. I am sure every 'Christian' feels God is leading them in His own special way. Who needs the bible.

Wired 4 Fishen said:

Better yet spend some time praying in the Spirit before going over and let the Holy Spirit lead you when and what is said. That will never fail.

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That will always fail if the Holy Spirit does not bring some scripture to remembrance in context and accurately. This is why we, as God's representative need to study, discuss and interrogate scripture. Imagine a society of people who don't know scripture and just go on their emotions / a feeling they think is the Holy Spirit.

Dave M said:

I cant help but think of a movie I recently watched when reading this. There was a scene in the movie where they had some loving people ready to preach the gospel in Love, going out to the boulevard where all the hookers and drug dealers and gang members were hanging out. They had plenty of experience going to this place and in the past always had lots of people at least curios about what they had to say. But this particular time no one seemed to care and most avoided them. As they were packing up and walking down the street a little bit, they noticed several people marching with signs, on the signs said things like "repent or go to Hell you wicked people", something like that . No one wanted anything to do with hearing the gospel that day.

perhaps its better to show them your light then talk about there darkness?

Click to expand...

Both work. I personally do not say ''repent or go to hell' because of all the false teaching on hell. I rather say ''repent and avoid an eternity apart from a good and loving God''.

I have had some people come to me and tell me about how annoying bullhorn preachers are. It opens up conversation. They see me as a target to vent their frustrations with people …..shouting at them.....about a loving....and wonderful God....repenting from doing wicked things like cheating on their spouse....killing themselves with drugs. Oh shame, it's so terrible. Those bullhorns are so loud. How rude. There arguments are just so hilarious and revealing of who they are. Like they cannot grasp that that bullhorn preacher has a million other things they would rather be doing.

Sometimes people need that wake up smack. Those in mortal sins, definitely need one.

Fragrant Grace said:

Greetings gentleman @povawiqe @KingJ @Wired 4 Fishen

Sharing a personal note here for perspective

My mother is an atheist and she lives with her partner in a gay relationship.

Anything "Christian" or "Biblical" said to her is met with argumentative dispute, hatred and anger.

However, over the past few years, all glory to God, I have just communicated with love and kindness to her. Never ever condoning her relationship....but just being calm and loving in communications.

She and her partner are unsaved and their hearts are not yet convicted of this sexual sin.
Condemning her would shoot up even more angry barriers against the Lord

Pray for those lost souls caught in abominable sin


And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto Him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
They say unto Him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest Thou?
This they said, tempting Him, that they might have to accuse Him.
But Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up Himself, and saw none but the woman, He said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8:1-11

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Amen... showing the love of Christ without human judgment will do a lot more to gain the lost, than condemning them in their sin (they already know how we believe and what the bible says). I am not saying there is never a time for warning, yet it seems that especially as family, we need to do all we can to keep the way of communication open, and an open way of invitation when the Word finally does convict them.

Chad4Him said:

Amen... showing the love of Christ without human judgment will do a lot more to gain the lost, than condemning them in their sin (they already know how we believe and what the bible says). I am not saying there is never a time for warning, yet it seems that especially as family, we need to do all we can to keep the way of communication open, and an open way of invitation when the Word finally does convict them.

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Amen Chad!!
Scripture says we must be a doer of The Word.
So we must be a living example and live in such a way that others are drawn to it. Walking in Love is key.

There was a couple who lived across the yard from us. A simple act of Love got his attention.

I took a folding chair over to them so both would have a chair to sit in. You could see it in his eyes and voice that it moved him deeply.

Totally unexpected but Love opens doors.
Blessings

Quoting: The Holy Spirit will move one to what words are needed for not only teaching, but convicting of them of the "sin" that requires them to not only know, but repent of, if they are to be Saved.

KingJ said:

Just picking your post apart. What do you mean ''if they are to be Saved''?

What if you think the Holy Spirit is telling you to say something but He is in fact not? Surely scripture is the bottom line? If one knows scripture, they can know what to say. Especially in the case of a sin like the sin we discussing.

Too many become too spiritual and assume the Holy Spirit is inspiring them. When it is just their emotions that don't want to offend or be offended. Scripture is our go to. Scripture is crystal clear on what they need to know from us and on how we need to treat them. Scripture becomes the bottom line with disagreement like those between Wired4Fishen and me.

Click to expand...

Pick away Brother

Meaning if they don't repent of their Sins, they won't be Saved. Unless you believe that "repentance" is not needed?

Now on the Holy Spirit. What I was bringing to mind is Luke 12:12. Which of course will not disagree with Scripture.

I've made my point clear as it pertains to how we are to treat people, whether believers or not. In love, with the same compassion that our Lord gave to those who were other then the leadership during His Earthly Ministry. With rare exception, Nicodemus the Pharisee being one off the top of my head that He communicated differently with.

As far as the disagreement between you and Brother Wired4Fishen. Too often with many of our discussions here on TJ, they wind up having to be either/or. When the reality is that when confronted with the situation in question, what is communicated, and how we communicate it, is not always done the same way. One side or the other equates such a statement to mean that we are compromising the Word of God when in truth we are not. Just as people are in different places in their lives when we talk to them, in education, culture, knowledge of Scripture, suffering, happy, sad, etc. so also how we bring the Gospel to them. Always in Love, in peace, with compassion in the knowledge that they are in a place of "darkness", while we are in the "Light". When faced with Hostility i.e. group setting, we very well may feel righteous anger, but knowingly entering what is clearly a hostile environment requires much forethought and preparation. Once again, situations we find ourselves in can dictate how we respond, but, knowingly we still should never compromise the message. For I don't believe that either one of you are believing that the message is to be diluted, just on how it should be delivered.

KingJ said:

Different methodology applies where the person in question is not a mortal sinner.

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See above.

In truth no different, except with one who is a believer, one should not necessarily be alone with trying to bring that person back into the fold so to speak. It's not like you're dealing with someone who has not been redeemed. For conviction should come easier to those who already know the Word of God, and know what they are doing is wrong/sinful. We're just not identifying, but also supporting to those who have strayed. However, the truth is that many don't want that correction, and so the reason for the witness. For those, the truth can be that no matter how one handles them, whether it be with kid gloves or not. They won't listen.

KingJ said:

Many GLBT are in full church attendance with no inclination of changing. No conviction that their lifestyle is wrong. That is because too many Christians don't know their bible. I am sure every 'Christian' feels God is leading them in His own special way. Who needs the bible.

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It's not that the Christians don't know their Bible, it's that they choose to ignore it and allow themselves to be part of that type of congregation instead of standing up for righteousness. Some, because they don't want to get booted from the church for being unloving. Others because they fear confrontation. Not realizing that they won't be standing alone. We are never alone! Still, this is not what Brother Wired4Fishen is talking about. If he is, I'm sure he'll correct me or you will

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

KingJ said:

Everytime your mom invites you over, you must preach / share some scripture with her. She must grasp that that is 'your speech'. That is 'you'.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your words brother @KingJ and how I long to beable to share the gospel and the love of Jesus with my mother and family.

Im not wanting to focus on my stuff, however, perhaps if explain a little more. There is no physical contact with my mother, I have only seen her fleetingly once in the past 10 years.
That is compounded by the fact that she and her partner are in the UK.

The huge opposition to Christianity was enough and an excuse to sever all communication.,...which was so so sad. The commencement of the gay relationship many years ago just added fuel to this barrier.

However, in His abundant goodness the Lord has opened the way and with His love and kindness coming through me it has allowed increasingly positive written communication and occasional telephone conversations. At this stage direct preaching or challenging the abominable relationship would sever all the ties that are just strengthening.

Yes, I agree @KingJ @povawiqe to share the Gospel and to give a word of warning (in love)
is right when led by the Lord........and sometimes as our brother @Wired 4 Fishen has indicated an act of love and shining with the love of Jesus is the first move.

Blessings grace and peace