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For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Rom 8:16; The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17; and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

King James puts it this way.

Rom 8:16; The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

This happens all the time to me. It isn't that hard. Our Spirit bears witness of others around us. We can usually tell if they are Christians are not.
Usually within 10 or 15 minutes I can tell if they are a Christian. Sometimes they never say they are.. but I can tell.
Other times, they say they are, but.... I can tell.
 
Rom 8:16; The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17; and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

King James puts it this way.

Rom 8:16; The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

This happens all the time to me. It isn't that hard. Our Spirit bears witness of others around us. We can usually tell if they are Christians are not.
Usually within 10 or 15 minutes I ca tell if they are a Christian. Sometimes they never say they are.. but I can tell.
Other times, they say they are, but.... I can tell.

A bell just sounded off, as I can relate to this. But I never put it into words.
 
I dont doubt it for a second as God our God is a super Natural God. I wonder if anyone on here has had the glorious experience?

I have seen things, heard things. I heard prophecies and seen them come true. (in a few cases they didn't)
I have seen people in wheelchairs get up and walk. I'm not talking about the fake stuff of television. These were people I personally knew.
My wife had stage 4 cancer. She doesn't now. (random coincidence? I don't think so)
I have seen tongues, prophecies, miracles, healings dozens of times in my life. I myself speak in tongues from time to time, but I certainly wouldn't say someone isn't
saved just because they don't.

Joel 2:28; And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29; And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Mark 16:17; And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


1 Thes 1:5; for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.
 
I have seen things, heard things. I heard prophecies and seen them come true. (in a few cases they didn't)
I have seen people in wheelchairs get up and walk. I'm not talking about the fake stuff of television. These were people I personally knew.
My wife had stage 4 cancer. She doesn't now. (random coincidence? I don't think so)
I have seen tongues, prophecies, miracles, healings dozens of times in my life. I myself speak in tongues from time to time, but I certainly wouldn't say someone isn't
saved just because they don't.


praise the Lord for your Wife brother and thanks for sharing !!

just a few months ago was the first time I ever asked anyone to lay hands on me (sad fact) but the power of Jesus came and I was healed of a bad shoulder that had plagued me for many months. Praise Jesus !!
 
Some churches teach three baptisms". Almost all Pentecostal churches believe the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit is different from the inital infilling of the Holy Spirit.

@B-A-C,
Yes, we are in agreement there are more than "one" baptism taught and exercised in the churches, "but" there is only "ONE INFILLING" for Salvation and reception of the gifts of the Spirit. When a person is baptized into the body of Christ, they receive the gifts of God, "at that time," as it pleases Him. The baptism of water does not baptize a person into the body of Christ. Just because a person say they believe, and if they do not have the Spirit they are not saved. God knows the heart of a man, plus God is able to keep a man (that believes) though he has not received the Spirit at that time. Jesus prayed for the disciple that His Father keep them; that does not change if a person's heart is true as Cornelius. Cornelius received the Spirit in God's time, but I believed he was kept until then.

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (the gifts are received at this time)

1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:18
But now hath "God set" the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

God baptizes believers into His body "once" (where there is no sin) and gives them the gifts according to His purpose. No man has been given "ALL" the gifts in operation (but Jesus); though God can use them in all the gifts through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
 
I have herd a couple of Pentecostal preachers say something along the lines of first we get them saved then we get the filled with the holly spirit. I even herd Derik Prince a great teacher of the word and a Pentecostal, say that speaking in tongues was the seal of the holly spirit. I think speaking of tongues is a beautiful gift from God and do not doubt it for one second but I dont think its a seal

But I think a changed life is a seal of the Holly spirit, once you hate sin, once you start living for God instead of your flesh, when you are convicted for doing wrong that is by the Holly Ghost I would have to think. I always thought tongues was a gift not a seal.

good topic of conversation
I repented (had a change of mind) was baptized (submerged in water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins on March 25, 2018. The elders tarried with me to receive the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost came as I laid prostrate on the floor. It showed me a vision of my mother sitting alone at her dinner table - I did not FEEL anything [as a side note I soon discovered that this meant that I should always remember my mother as a way of honoring her].

On Father's Day, just a few short months afterwards, on our way to church, my wife and I had a fight about what my daughter, her step-daughter should be wearing in church - though it was her approach of enforcement I didn't agree with. She was wearing a bracelet that her mom gave her, and since my wife's recent baptism and change of dress code, what she said in that regard went, no if's and's or but's. I asked Elle nicely to take her bracelet off before going into worship. Elle did so, no quarrels.

Even though my wife's wishes were done, she was still fuming. Sitting in the pew she was going on about adorning herself with jewelry and on and on. I tried redirecting her and said something like hey can we talk to pastor about it after church? She agreed, but a few minutes later she started in again. Just angry, hot, fuming. This went on after church on the ride home, and I finally said, enough! I am not talking about this anymore (or something like that). When we got home she was still persisting on some sort of revenge, I don't know. She told me to leave, so I left with my son and daughter while she stayed behind with her son and daughter and our son. We went for ice cream - I had to drive over to pastor's home to ask for some money as my wife insisted that she keep the debit card. There were many things that I will not share here so I will get to the point.

This "spiritual battle" went on for four days. All the while I am praying to Jesus asking him to protect me from the Devil's assaults and to guard me from trying to take things into my own hands - and just TRUST Him! I trusted and held on for those for days. On the forth day I invited Jesus into my home to be with me there protecting me and my family. Lo and behold! On that night my wife broke down and confessed to me that she was a murderer and was sorry for the destruction she made on me and my daughter. As I HEARD her say this to me I was ecstatic and verbally told her that it's ok babe! and that all the angels in heaven are sounding their trumpets rejoicing that you repented! I was walking towards her as said this and I embraced her with open arms just to cling to her. As I grasped her with my arms and fully hugged her, at that very moment, Jesus sent the Holy Ghost and it FILLED ME. It entered my chest and completely filled my chest, and it continued filling my arms. It froze me and I could not speak, it froze me and I could not make a sound, it froze me and I could not BREATHE! It filled me and tears flowed from my eyes onto my wife's chest. I felt suspended there, in space. Everything seemed to stop.

It filled me and held me like this for, I would guess 20 seconds? As it released me it threw me back off of my wife and off of the bed to the side. It gave me breathe again, and threw me onto my knees and feet, bent in an awkward position. I felt some pain, but the pain wasn't uncomfortable. I felt comforted. As if it were Jesus' feet that were being nailed (wait now, just a small, minuscule, representation of His real pain I am sure). The Holy Ghost held me in that position for a minute or two, during which time I recall my wife going to everyone in the house that she was sorry for what she had done. Finally, the Holy Ghost threw me onto my back and I laid on my back for a while to regain myself. I was in AWE in WONDER in PEACE just oh boy like wow what just happened!!!!!????

I think this was the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Amen and Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!!! He is my beautiful Saviour and Redeemer!!!

My pastor teaches that there isn't power in tongues necessarily as people often times teach and practice that stuff. There is also some scripture that I have seem to misplaced that demonstrates the order in which the Holy Spirit is come in regards to tongues. If/when I come across it will share.
 
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My pastor teaches that there isn't power in tongues necessarily as people often times teach and practice that stuff. There is also some scripture that I have seem to misplaced that demonstrates the order in which the Holy Spirit is come in regards to tongues. If/when I come across it will share.
Yes, choose to follow the Scriptures instead of your pastor.
Best is to form a home group where a denomination is not trying to control you.
 
Acts 2: 38 is what my
Yes, choose to follow the Scriptures instead of your pastor.
Best is to form a home group where a denomination is not trying to control you.
Yes absolutely. My pastor is scripture controlled and preaches to be guided by truth the Word and lead by the Holy Spirit. He always asks "where's your Holy Spirit?" Lol where's your trust in the Lord?
 
Okay, what are you going to do with Hebrews 6 "baptisms" plural?

Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

You didn't read my post #25. I said it is taught there is more than "one" baptism taught. I know there is a water baptism, but the point I made was there was one baptism that "INFILLS" a man with life. Water baptism does not give life with the filling of the Holy Ghost. Acts 19.
 
@BCsenior,,


How am I wrong on this count if the Spirit inspired the writing of this verse? If you don't mind, explain my error?

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
We have a song we sing "one Lord , one faith and one baptism". Thank you for now it is playing in my heart :) and proceeding out of my mouth :p
 
@B-A-C,
Yes, we are in agreement there are more than "one" baptism taught and exercised in the churches, "but" there is only "ONE INFILLING" for Salvation and reception of the gifts of the Spirit. When a person is baptized into the body of Christ, they receive the gifts of God, "at that time," as it pleases Him. The baptism of water does not baptize a person into the body of Christ. Just because a person say they believe, and if they do not have the Spirit they are not saved. God knows the heart of a man, plus God is able to keep a man (that believes) though he has not received the Spirit at that time. Jesus prayed for the disciple that His Father keep them; that does not change if a person's heart is true as Cornelius. Cornelius received the Spirit in God's time, but I believed he was kept until then.

To be clear, you are saying that you agree that there is a baptism with the Holy Ghost and there is water baptism, but water baptism does not do anything and there is only one baptism with the Holy Ghost and that only happens at our salvation? If that is what you are saying, then I agree. Any other baptism in regards to the Holy Spirit is not of the Lord. It is a real supernatural event(s), but that is why John warned believers not to believe every spirit but test them per 1 John 4:1-4 KJV whereby knowing that the Holy Spirit has been in you since you had first believed at the calling of the gospel is how believers can know that spirit coming over them again, even if it brings tongues, is NOT the Holy Spirit at all.

Those who are led astray seek after another drink of the One Spirit which many are falling down by in a loss of self control.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

So it is important to keep the traditions taught of us as to when the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth was received which was at the calling of the gospel in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
 
with out the Holly Spirit how can you possibly become born again and have a changed heart.
 
@Bendito,
I'm not sure about the term "baptism" meaning "sent;" where can I find that understanding? But the comparison made was with the baptism of John the Baptist. So this says to me it's not necessarily talking about "sent" but an immersion in something. I of course believe once a person is baptized with the Spirit, their sins are all removed; past, present and future - starting with confession as 1John 1:9 states.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

It is by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins and the promise of the Holy Ghost. The immersion is not water baptism but as you say the baptism of the Holy Ghost at our salvation.
 
@JesusIs4Me,
I believe as the scripture I presented... One baptism...
If a person has been baptized in water, but that person had not been baptized with the Spirit of God, that person is not Christ.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 
@JesusIs4Me,
I believe as the scripture I presented... One baptism...
If a person has been baptized in water, but that person had not been baptized with the Spirit of God, that person is not Christ.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I believe the tradition taught of us as to when the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth has been received which was at the calling of the gospel. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 KJV confirms this.

I also believe that because Philip was seen as a great man of God replacing Simon the sorcerer in the eyes of the Samaritans; that infamy of Simon was replaced by the "miraculous" Philip. By citing how Simon ALSO believed, places the Samaritans people in fanfare for why they were following Philip, being baptized by him and that was to behold miracles. So as simon's heart was not right with the Lord, the same ALSO was the Samaritans for why they had not received the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

When you consider that by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins and the promise of the Holy Ghost, then one can see why Luke had written that they only believed in the "things" Philip was preaching about and not necessarily the same as believing in Him.

At the end of that chapter, we see Philip preventing this oversight by others with the Ethiopian eunuch by asking him point blank if he believed in the Lord Jesus Christ before he water baptized him. So there is a difference between believing about the things regarding the kingdom of God and "about" the name of Jesus, as opposed to believing in Him in order to receive the remission of sins and the promise of the Holy Ghost.

No one should doubt that they had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ at their salvation when they believe IN Jesus Christ, even IN His name rather than just believing the THINGS ABOUT Him.

I believe you have to be clear in your stance because there are believers out there that will say unless you speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore you are not saved. Some will take what you said that people will go through the motion and not believe in Him. But those out there reading this should know that they believe in Him to not doubt that they have received the promise by faith in Jesus Christ as promised and not by sight as if by a sign.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. …..6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.....26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Those who exalt themselves by that sign of tongue or some other sensational sign in the flesh over other believers as if they had not received the promise of the Holy Spirit when they had come to and believed in Jesus Christ, do so in harming the body of Christ as well as departing from faith in Jesus Christ in chasing after seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. The not so funny thing about it, as much as they promote that second blessing or that event when they believe they were truly saved, it can happen again to the same believer and again and again after other signs of confusion and not just tongues without interpretation assumed in error to be for private use. So no.

To avoid that and to maintain the traditions taught of us, when anyone believed in Jesus Christ even in His name, they are saved as having received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ; Ephesians 1:11-15 KJV confirms.
 
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