so there will b no saved people going into the 1,000 year rule that do not have a glorified bodies.

Dave M said:

so there will b no saved people going into the 1,000 year rule that do not have a glorified bodies.

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Of course there will be Dave...We'll be living in the New Jerusalem and the Bride will be ruling with Him...Well, actually, learning to rule with Him.

Bendito said:

Of course there will be

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so your saying the people that come to Christ during the tribulation and enter the 1000 year rule will not have glorified bodies? I realize people will be saved during the 1000 rule, but I thought all saints that came to Christ during the tribulation got glorified bodies

Dave M said:

so your saying the people that come to Christ during the tribulation and enter the 1000 year rule will not have glorified bodies? I realize people will be saved during the 1000 rule, but I thought all saints that came to Christ during the tribulation got glorified bodies

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Yes All of the saints will have glorified bodies...Good thing for me too. I'll be young again!

so then when do the people who come to Christ during the 1000 year rule get there glorified bodies?? do they just die a regular life go to heaven and get the glorified body after the 1000 year rule?

Dave M said:

so then when do the people who come to Christ during the 1000 year rule get there glorified bodies?? do they just die a regular life go to heaven and get the glorified body after the 1000 year rule?

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That I do not know, the bible does not say

Then we have the 144,000 he places in tribulation to spread his word, now if the church was still here on earth during the tribulation I have to wonder would he need to do this?


Then as we look at the history of the bible we can see God sparing his people of his wrath in many places, Noah, Abrams Nephew, Enoch And Elijah, and yet we here that this is going to be the worst wrath ever put on mankind, so it does make sense he would spare his people the saints from this wrath.

this thread has certainly got me thinking thanks @Bendito and @Lily Miller

LOL - I've usually heard this argued from the other point of view.

Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15; "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

Certainly there are some who will either get saved during the tribulation, or else the saints go through the tribulation.

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Another thought.. (I personally don't believe this, but... ) some churches teach that ONLY those who were beheaded during the tribulation and didn't take the mark of beast
will reign with Christ during the millennial reign. "The rest of the dead" don't come back to life until the 1,000 years is over.

Well I really enjoyed reading your thoughts, both of you. But I would definitely have to lean more towards Jesus and the rapture happening at the same time, after the tribulation.

I think you both are making good points but I do believe that what is being talked about here in the whole chapter is how things will eventually fall into place. God has always protected his people you are correct in that but I also believe that because his people are so stubborn that he will allow us to endure hardships, just as Jesus did.

I believe that the parable of the wise and foolish virgins, is like the verse where Jesus says that people will come to Him saying "Lord, Lord" and he says to them, "depart from me I never knew you" he said that these people who he is claiming to never know, are people who claim to know him. I believe this is going to happen to a bunch of people when the Judgement is here.

I believe that with the way everything will lay out this will be the ultimate test of our faithfulness and belief in Jesus and with God. I imagine that God is way beyond fed up with all of our crap, and he's probably tired of having to watch us mess up over and over again.

I really do enjoy this talk, I hope we can continue to exchange our thoughts because it is helping me understand the scriptures more!

Dave M said:

Then we have the 144,000 he places in tribulation to spread his word, now if the church was still here on earth during the tribulation I have to wonder would he need to do this?


Then as we look at the history of the bible we can see God sparing his people of his wrath in many places, Noah, Abrams Nephew, Enoch And Elijah, and yet we here that this is going to be the worst wrath ever put on mankind, so it does make sense he would spare his people the saints from this wrath.

this thread has certainly got me thinking thanks @Bendito and @Lily Miller

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Dave, you'll also have to take into account the great falling away, the apostasy that occurs. That involves Christians who are seduced by the dark side.

@B-A-C

All the time here on TJ and I do not know where you stand on the timing of the rapture, I would love to here your thoughts.

The key thing to remember concerning the 'rapture' is that the when of it is not really important...What is important is living READY because it could happen two minutes from now. If it comes at the end of tribulation, or in the middle.....Then we are living a godly life and we come out winners.

Bendito said:

The key thing to remember concerning the 'rapture' is that the when of it is not really important...What is important is living READY because it could happen two minutes from now. If it comes at the end of tribulation, or in the middle.....Then we are living a godly life and we come out winners.

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I would agree with you on this

I have no idea how many can accept this, but a way of correcting many obstacles in understanding the future events of end times come from realizing the starting point of the Revelation of Jesus shown to John.

Try this and see if former perceived thoughts of pre-trib rapture, and out of great tribulation begin making more sense to you.
Rev 1:10 I (John) was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet. Think on this; is the Lord’s Day the more accepted Sunday many believe, or that day we also read of as the Day of the Lord?

The Apostle John from that future time is given three time perspectives we read of in Rev 1:19. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter. When these viewpoints are not correctly divided, much confusion can be the effect.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8.28 said:

I have no idea how many can accept this, but a way of correcting many obstacles in understanding the future events of end times come from realizing the starting point of the Revelation of Jesus shown to John.

Try this and see if former perceived thoughts of pre-trib rapture, and out of great tribulation begin making more sense to you.
Rev 1:10 I (John) was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet. Think on this; is the Lord’s Day the more accepted Sunday many believe, or that day we also read of as the Day of the Lord?

The Apostle John from that future time is given three time perspectives we read of in Rev 1:19. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter. When these viewpoints are not correctly divided, much confusion can be the effect.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

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Could you clarify what you are trying to say brother? Your point is confusing, please use plain speech.

Lily Miller said:

Could you clarify what you are trying to say brother? Your point is confusing, please use plain speech.

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Good morning dear sister. Understanding many events of end times is based upon knowing what John is being shown, and the time period it covers. For instance, who are those 24 elders of Rev 4:4, and 4 beasts, or living ones of Rev 4:6. Why are they with Jesus prior to the temptation to come upon all the world? Were they raptured; to be in heaven, Thay had to be caught up to be there.

What of those of:
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Is John really being shown different groups of Christianity appear at different times in heaven possibly due to their present walk in Christ? Yes, if we read Revelation chapters two and three, we see that judgment has begun at the house of God (1 Pet 4:17). If interested in these things, I'll attempt to break each group into their respective place in the body of Christ. Thanks for asking.

Romans 8.28 said:

I have no idea how many can accept this, but a way of correcting many obstacles in understanding the future events of end times come from realizing the starting point of the Revelation of Jesus shown to John.

Try this and see if former perceived thoughts of pre-trib rapture, and out of great tribulation begin making more sense to you.
Rev 1:10 I (John) was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet. Think on this; is the Lord’s Day the more accepted Sunday many believe, or that day we also read of as the Day of the Lord?

The Apostle John from that future time is given three time perspectives we read of in Rev 1:19. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter. When these viewpoints are not correctly divided, much confusion can be the effect.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

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Romans 8:28....Could you please elucidate on your stance "pre-trib and mid-trib as pertaining to the Church, and ranks in the resurrection."?
It sounds interesting.

Bendito said:

Romans 8:28....Could you please elucidate on your stance "pre-trib and mid-trib as pertaining to the Church, and ranks in the resurrection."?
It sounds interesting.

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Hi Brother Bendito, and thanks for your interest. John was caught forward in spirit to the actual beginning of the Day of the Lord. That is the time He will take His own throne in Rev 4:2, and begin His reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords. From that perspective Jesus will be shown taking possession of that all power and authority given Him in Mt 28:18. At this present time Jesus is walking among the candlesticks (churches Rev 2:1). We are presently before the judgment seat of Christ, and read of that judgment in Revelation Chapters two and three.

When we read of the 24 elders and 4 living ones of Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6, John has been shown them as risen in pre-tribulation. There are only two portions of the Church without rebuke, and they are these two groups. They are Smyrna of Rev 2:10 who were faithful unto death, and Philadelphia of Rev 3:10 that keep God's word and will be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world. I'm cutting this short to present the idea of those that will reign with Jesus as kings and priests: and we shall reign on (or over) the earth.

Compare these with those John was shown as the great multitude that came out of great tribulation we read of in Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Be blessed in Christ, and we are.

Romans 8.28 said:

Hi Brother Bendito, and thanks for your interest. John was caught forward in spirit to the actual beginning of the Day of the Lord. That is the time He will take His own throne in Rev 4:2, and begin His reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords. From that perspective Jesus will be shown taking possession of that all power and authority given Him in Mt 28:18. At this present time Jesus is walking among the candlesticks (churches Rev 2:1). We are presently before the judgment seat of Christ, and read of that judgment in Revelation Chapters two and three.

When we read of the 24 elders and 4 living ones of Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6, John has been shown them as risen in pre-tribulation. There are only two portions of the Church without rebuke, and they are these two groups. They are Smyrna of Rev 2:10 who were faithful unto death, and Philadelphia of Rev 3:10 that keep God's word and will be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world. I'm cutting this short to present the idea of those that will reign with Jesus as kings and priests: and we shall reign on (or over) the earth.

Compare these with those John was shown as the great multitude that came out of great tribulation we read of in Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Be blessed in Christ, and we are.

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This is an interesting viewpoint...I'll look into it deeper. Thanks

@Romans 8.28

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
" 1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

This scripture is saying that the day of Our Lord will not be upon us until the "Man doomed to destruction" sets himself up in the Third Temple, which marks the start of the Last Seven Years, (see the Revelation or Daniel's Prophecy)
In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, when it talks about the opening of seals, it is talking about the things that will happen during the Great Tribulation. Immediately after this (Chapter 6) it goes on into (Chapter 7) talking about 144,000 being sealed, so that they will not be harmed by the things that are to come upon the Earth and the unjust. These are the people who did not "defile themselves with women" which I would believe this to be Babylon. After these events, comes the Trumpets, which are the things which I believe will happen during the Last Seven Years.

Anyways, time to move on.

1 Thessalonians 4: 14, 16-17
"14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him."
"16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Matthew 24:29-31
"29 Immediately after the distress in those days "the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with aloud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect form the four winds from one end of the heavens to the other."

I believe strongly, that during the Tribulation people, (Christians) will die because they are standing up for their belief in Jesus; I believe that will be who those 24 Elders are. I also believe that Jesus will come after the Tribulation, Jesus suffered much Tribulation, how could we think that us Christians (followers of Christ) could escape something Christ had to endure...
2 Peter 3:21
"To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps"

We must be prepared to endure the Tribulation, to show God if we are going to listen to Jesus and show Him that we really do believe in him, rather than money, or the system.

I am going to share a video that I found really helps me, just to understand Prophecy more, I try to keep it in my mind to make sure I'm not just cherry picking a few verses.

Prohecy Video!