Changing the Bible

Christ4Ever · Feb 3, 2018

At Peace said:
Isn't the word "perfect" in the orig' manuscripts?
If I decide to ignore so-called bibles for changing that word, doesn't it show we agree on this point?
I think it does.

This is the issue that I sought to change for you, and that is an inability to give any credence to other bibles, and if not that, at the very least restrain the verbiage you use which is exemplified by your usage of comments such as "so-called bibles".

As I told you before. I will not denigrate the KJV, in order to prove why other Bibles, by Holy Spirit guidance, provides one the ability to truthfully comprehend what God wants us to know through His Word.

Also, to add on your usage of the verse concerning "a little leaven" was really misapplied to our discussion of bibles. This is not a doctrinal issue, which is what Jesus was attempting to communicate concerning Pharisees and Sadducees in applying that term. You have attempted to make it doctrinal, and it was for this reason I did not continue on with our discussion.

It appears you will have enough discussion, without me, at least for the time being.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Born Again 2004 · Feb 3, 2018

All this is pretty simple...perfect means perfect with out exception and really needs no discussion. I have used 1 Corinthians 13 before but I will put it a bit differently:

1 Corinthians 13: 4-7 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all thingsctPaul is describing Agape or God's perfect love.
Now for every time the word love is used above, substitute the word God.

God suffers long
God is kind
God does not envy
God does not parade itself
God is not puffed up
God does not behave rudely
God does not seek it's own
God is not provoked
God thinks no evil
God does not rejoice in injury
God rejoices in truth
God bears all things
God believes all things
God hopes all things
God endures all things

Now, God is perfect; God does this 24/7 and no MAN is capable doing this and is not perfect as hard as they may try!

B-A-C · Feb 3, 2018

Born Again 2004 said:
Now, God is perfect; God does this 24/7 and no MAN is capable doing this and is not perfect as hard as they may try!

The only problem with this line of thinking is....

Since I can't do it 100%, I won't try to do it at all.

Dave M · Feb 3, 2018

B-A-C said:
The only problem with this line of thinking is....

Since I can't do it 100%, I won't try to do it at all.

brother you are reaching here and putting words into it that are not there no one said they "wont try at all" you made that up

Born Again 2004 · Feb 3, 2018

B-A-C said:
The only problem with this line of thinking is....

Since I can't do it 100%, I won't try to do it at all.

I find it disheartening that you continue with this type of reasoning..... I know you know that doing this a 100% is what God would require for perfection and, I know, that despite your statement, , you are one who would continue to try and do it , in-spite of your failures!
Anyone who feels like not "doing it at all" just does not understand and / or have a relationship with God.

Dave M · Feb 3, 2018

BAC Said
"Since I can't do it 100%, I won't try to do it at all."

This goes to show you have different people think about things, for instance I know I am not going to shoot 100% perfect score when going to the shooting range but I still go and give it a 100% this is pretty much how most of life is, the way I see it, nothing we do is perfect but that does not mean we do not give it 100%. Funny how we all look at some things differently.

At Peace · Feb 3, 2018

Christ4Ever said:
This is the issue that I sought to change for you, and that is an inability to give any credence to other bibles, and if not that, at the very least restrain the verbiage you use which is exemplified by your usage of comments such as "so-called bibles".

I give no credence to anything that is not of God.
The changes made in newer versions shows they are weapons of the devil.

As I told you before. I will not denigrate the KJV, in order to prove why other Bibles, by Holy Spirit guidance, provides one the ability to truthfully comprehend what God wants us to know through His Word.

Something not of God will not be the target of God's guidance.

Also, to add on your usage of the verse concerning "a little leaven" was really misapplied to our discussion of bibles. This is not a doctrinal issue, which is what Jesus was attempting to communicate concerning Pharisees and Sadducees in applying that term. You have attempted to make it doctrinal, and it was for this reason I did not continue on with our discussion.

The reference to "leaven" was wholly appropriate.
You want me to recognize tainted, contradictory interpretation as being from God.
It isn't.

At Peace · Feb 3, 2018

Born Again 2004 said:
All this is pretty simple...perfect means perfect with out exception and really needs no discussion. I have used 1 Corinthians 13 before but I will put it a bit differently:

1 Corinthians 13: 4-7 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all thingsctPaul is describing Agape or God's perfect love.

Now for every time the word love is used above, substitute the word God.

God suffers long

God is kind

God does not envy

God does not parade itself

God is not puffed up

God does not behave rudely

God does not seek it's own

God is not provoked

God thinks no evil

God does not rejoice in injury

God rejoices in truth

God bears all things

God believes all things

God hopes all things

God endures all things

Now, God is perfect; God does this 24/7 and no MAN is capable doing this and is not perfect as hard as they may try!

Sorry to see you can't recognize any difference between those born of men and those reborn of God.
One walks after the "flesh", while the other walks after the Spirit.

Dave M · Feb 3, 2018

B-A-C said:
The only problem with this line of thinking is....

Since I can't do it 100%, I won't try to do it at all.

At Peace said:
Sorry to see you can't recognize any difference between those born of men and those reborn of God.
One walks after the "flesh", while the other walks after the Spirit.

You my freind must not be looking very closely because I can see clearly Born again see a big difference between the two, its you who do not see what he sees but he sees what you see.

B-A-C · Feb 4, 2018

Dave M said:
nothing we do is perfect

This is unscriptural.

Matt 5:48; "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Php 3:15; Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
Col 4:12; Epaphras, who is one of your number, a bondslave of Jesus Christ, sends you his greetings, always laboring earnestly for you in his prayers, that you may stand perfect and fully assured in all the will of God.
Heb 12:23; to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
Jas 1:4; And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
Jas 3:2; For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.
1 Pet 5:10; After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

B-A-C · Feb 4, 2018

Dave M said:
I know I am not going to shoot 100% perfect score when going to the shooting range but I still go and give it a 100% this is pretty much how most of life is, the way I see it,

At the risk of bragging... there have been times in my life... I have shot 100%. At the shooting range, in a basketball game.
I have 100% on several tests I have taken in school. No, not all of them. But I have found, if I don't think I can do these
things... I never will.

I can't say I have never sinned since I have gotten saved. But I can honestly say two things.....
First... there are some sins I haven't done in decades.
Second... there are days... (maybe even weeks) I can say I have walked pretty blameless before the Lord.

Luke 1:5; In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah; and he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
Luke 1:6; They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.

If people could do this without the Holy Spirit... what excuse do we have?

Gen 6:9; These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
Gen 17:1; Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless.
Job 1:1; There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.
Psa 119:1; How blessed are those whose way is blameless, Who walk in the law of the LORD.

Christ4Ever · Feb 4, 2018

At Peace said:
I give no credence to anything that is not of God.
The changes made in newer versions shows they are weapons of the devil.

You stand and fall on what you believe and have faith in.
So be it.

At Peace said:
Something not of God will not be the target of God's guidance.

It would only make sense for you then to take care of the words you throw around dictating what is of God and what is not.

At Peace said:
The reference to "leaven" was wholly appropriate.
You want me to recognize tainted, contradictory interpretation as being from God.
It isn't.

Tainted is your term brother, not mine. Nor, will it ever be one that I use for a Translation written by those inspired by the Holy Spirit to do so. On second thought. Maybe, the reference your used is more appropriate then you think, but not as it pertains to bibles, but rather as it pertains your own judgments. Matthew 7:3

YBIC
Nick
<><

At Peace · Feb 4, 2018

Dave M said:
You my freind must not be looking very closely because I can see clearly Born again see a big difference between the two, its you who do not see what he sees but he sees what you see.

If that is what you inferred by capitalizing "MAN", (not including those reborn of Godly seed), I can see your point.
MAN can't be perfect 24/7 but those born of God are sons of God, and quite separate from "MAN".

At Peace · Feb 4, 2018

Christ4Ever said:
You stand and fall on what you believe and have faith in.
So be it.

Amen.
Perhaps you can give an extra (KJV) biblical belief you have?

It would only make sense for you then to take care of the words you throw around dictating what is of God and what is not.

I can only call a spade a spade.

Tainted is your term brother, not mine. Nor, will it ever be one that I use for a Translation written by those inspired by the Holy Spirit to do so. On second thought. Maybe, the reference your used is more appropriate then you think, but not as it pertains to bibles, but rather as it pertains your own judgments. Matthew 7:3

I can't consider books that contain things contrary to God as "inspired by the Holy Ghost".
When "perfect" is translated as "adequate", I have qualms.

Br. Bear · Feb 4, 2018

Greetings Dave,

Dave M said:
for instance I know I am not going to shoot 100% perfect score when going to the shooting range but I still go and give it a 100%

it's been a while since I picked up a lead pinger but I used to go about it differently. The purpose was to see if I was no longer shooting 100%. Especially from the hip! Beenalongtime.

Bless you ....><>
===============================================
Greetings B-A-C,

B-A-C said:
If people could do this without the Holy Spirit... what excuse do we have?

Good point, except...
these Men and Women were the exception and as we see were specially chosen for very, very special and unique purposes.

B-A-C said:
The only problem with this line of thinking is....

Since I can't do it 100%, I won't try to do it at all.

I hear what you are saying. And that is how the many reason it. Let us spur each other on to keep the faith.

Bless you ....><>
==========================================

Greetings At Peace,

At Peace said:
When "perfect" is translated as "adequate", I have qualms.

Me, too. I would want to look as deep as needed to see why that was done. Sometimes it might be a better translation of a word used or given but most certainly if it is not, then why would we want to water down or defile what we have before us?

It reminds me of the love we have been given to share with each other as brothers in Christ. Do we ever water that down or defile it by rendering it differently from what the Lord has given to us?

Bless you ....><>

At Peace · Feb 5, 2018

Br. Bear said:
Greetings At Peace,

Me, too. I would want to look as deep as needed to see why that was done.

The "reason" is obvious.
Loosen the restrictions imposed by God. or to lower the heights God has equipt us to soar at,

Sometimes it might be a better translation of a word used or given but most certainly if it is not, then why would we want to water down or defile what we have before us?

Indeed, but if God was the one in charge of interpretations and collations the first time, why should we think He would now be "repairing" His word?

It reminds me of the love we have been given to share with each other as brothers in Christ. Do we ever water that down or defile it by rendering it differently from what the Lord has given to us?

Do you think that is what happened when men started using the bible to justify blacks for slavery, or to mount "crusades" to recapture pieces of land?
Defilement?
Or were those instances just the twisting of scripture for personal gains? (Which does constitute defilement)
The crusades were before the KJV of the bible, but not the justification of black abasement, (so perhaps neither is a good example to correlate to your line of thought.).

Br. Bear · Feb 5, 2018

Greetings,

At Peace said:
The "reason" is obvious.
Loosen the restrictions imposed by God. or to lower the heights God has equipt us to soar at,

That, ultimately, is the result. Perhaps some things in Scripture are in the too hard basket, so 'changing' a bit here and bit there makes it not only easier for us to have excuse but also can 'make it more attractive' to the world? Little do those who desire to make the Church and the Scriptures more attractive know that it is the Sword and the Rock that people actually want to hear whether they realise it or not. An inward desire to be put on the right track accepts a 'hard-line' Gospel.

At Peace said:
Indeed, but if God was the one in charge of interpretations and collations the first time, why should we think He would now be "repairing" His word?

When was the 'first time'? We talk here about English versions. There are also many other language versions available for peoples from non-english speaking countries. Every translation aims (or should do) at bringing and giving the Scripture in one's language.
A lot of the discussion about the Bible being changed is quite limited because we usually forget that there are many languages in the world.
As for God 'being responsible' {paraphrase}, you said that, not me. Sometimes people are very keen or zealous. That does not mean that that equates to doing that which is right. Take, for example, the man Saul of Tarsus, who later, after conversion, spoke of his zeal... in not only being a man who chased hard after everything he knew was required of him under the Law but also how that overflowed to persecuting Christians!

At Peace said:
Do you think that is what happened when men started using the bible to justify blacks for slavery, or to mount "crusades" to recapture pieces of land?
Defilement?
Or were those instances just the twisting of scripture for personal gains? (Which does constitute defilement)
The crusades were before the KJV of the bible, but not the justification of black abasement,

and the rest...

At Peace said:
(so perhaps neither is a good example to correlate to your line of thought.).

is that a hint of doubt I read?

I appreciate that you took the time to reply to me, thank you.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We all are entitled to think that we are entitled to have our opinion and thereby comment about those things that we think we have a right to do so. Whether that equates to sin or not I am not going to judge.

Scripture does make it plain when telling that God would give them over to their carnal desires and evil ways. Therefore to make a judgement about the reason why people do what they do can sometimes border on error. A symptom perhaps but not always the cause.

Bless you ....><>

Br. Bear · Feb 5, 2018

Greetings,

what version of the Bible do you think people used when the following happened?
(makes Hitler look pretty tame)

Something to consider along with some of the whole discussion here.

Bless you, one and all ....><>

B-A-C · Feb 6, 2018

Br. Bear said:
Something to consider along with some of the whole discussion here.

I'm sure there is a lot of truth in this. But not everything done in the name of "Christianity" is something Jesus Himself would have likely done.

Sending armies to the middle east to kill millions of infidels during the crusades? The "church" was behind this.
The enslavery and torture of the Spanish inquisition? The "church" was behind this.
Burning "witches" at the stake in colonial America? The "church" was behind this.

Is it possible native Americans were killed in the name of Christianity? No doubt some were.
But somewhere in the video above the line gets crossed, and this turns into anti-Christian propaganda.
"All" Christians... and "all Christian" beliefs are evil. This is exactly what the current agenda of the liberal government here is the US
are trying spread into the media and education systems here.

Christians are hateful... Christians are intolerant... ... and sometimes those accusations are correct.

On the other hand... God wasn't very tolerant about the giants, Canaanites, Sodom and Gomorrah, the 23,000 that worshiped the golden calf and
a few other races in the Bible. There are places in the Bible God told the Jews to kill even the women and infants, (every one of them) of their
enemies.

Where do you want to draw the line?

Jdg 21:10; And the congregation sent 12,000 of the valiant warriors there, and commanded them, saying, "Go and strike the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the little ones.
Jdg 21:11; "This is the thing that you shall do: you shall utterly destroy every man and every woman who has lain with a man."

1Sa 22:19; And he struck Nob the city of the priests with the edge of the sword, both men and women, children and infants; also oxen, donkeys, and sheep he struck with the edge of the sword.

Hos 13:16; Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.

Wired 4 Fishen · Feb 6, 2018

Dave M said:
brother you are reaching here and putting words into it that are not there no one said they "wont try at all" you made that up

Hi Dave,
You might have misunderstood.
Far to many people out there do actually have the lazy attitude that says, if I can't do it better or as good or best then why even bother.

If I might miss the mark why even try.
It's sad but many people are like this.

It falls in the line of
The only thing worse then failure
Is not trying at all.
Blessings
W4F

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