Bendito said:

Why is it that all you want to do is fight? Are you so unsure of yourself that you have to be a know it all? What makes you so sure you ARE right anyway? Stop the strife now...Please?!

Click to expand...

I'm kind of curious how much experience you have had in theological dialogues or in theology? I ask that because you seem to feel unduly threatened by what I am saying. I am simply sharing my POV. If you want to disagree, feel free to do so. However, I except some sort of rational rebuttal, not some sort of personal attack or complaint about fighting. If I seem sure of myself and very authoritative, it's because I am. I should be. I have a doctorate in theology and my dissertation focused on questions directly related to God's relationship to time and change. I also teach both philosophy and theology classes at the local U, as well as adult RE classes at a local church. I am also very careful to resent a rationale for what I say. I'm not trying to brag, I'm just trying to explain where I am coming from.

hoghead said:

I'm kind of curious how much experience you have had in theological dialogues or in theology? I ask that because you seem to feel unduly threatened by what I am saying. I am simply sharing my POV. If you want to disagree, feel free to do so. However, I except some sort of rational rebuttal, not some sort of personal attack or complaint about fighting. If I seem sure of myself and very authoritative, it's because I am. I should be. I have a doctorate in theology and my dissertation focused on questions directly related to God's relationship to time and change. I also teach both philosophy and theology classes at the local U, as well as adult RE classes at a local church. I am also very careful to resent a rationale for what I say. I'm not trying to brag, I'm just trying to explain where I am coming from.

Click to expand...

Its not what you know intellectually, its what interaction you have with God Himself.... For example you can know about Him but not know Him... You can expound until the cows come home and still not know Him....Its all about what the Holy Spirit can do through you, not what you can do for Him..
So far all you have done is to irritate people. Can you do it better?

hoghead said:

I'm kind of curious how much experience you have had in theological dialogues or in theology? I ask that because you seem to feel unduly threatened by what I am saying. I am simply sharing my POV. If you want to disagree, feel free to do so. However, I except some sort of rational rebuttal, not some sort of personal attack or complaint about fighting. If I seem sure of myself and very authoritative, it's because I am. I should be. I have a doctorate in theology and my dissertation focused on questions directly related to God's relationship to time and change. I also teach both philosophy and theology classes at the local U, as well as adult RE classes at a local church. I am also very careful to resent a rationale for what I say. I'm not trying to brag, I'm just trying to explain where I am coming from.

Click to expand...

Wisdom is greater than intelligence, and your assuming certain things you have read are more trustworthy than others is lacking wisdom. Who gives wisdom, man and book, or God? God says all things pass away but Faith, Hope, and Love. What will your trust in man made theology gain you eternally?

Bendito said:

Its not what you know intellectually, its what interaction you have with God Himself.... For example you can know about Him but not know Him... You can expound until the cows come home and still not know Him....Its all about what the Holy Spirit can do through you, not what you can do for Him..
So far all you have done is to irritate people. Can you do it better?

Click to expand...

Interesting......So one can get a doctorate in theology and still know nothing?
The word “theology” comes from two Greek words that combined mean “the study of God.” Christian theology is simply an attempt to understand God as He is revealed in the Bible. No theology will ever fully explain God and His ways because God is infinitely and eternally higher than we are. Therefore, any attempt to describe Him will fall short
Webster’s dictionary defines theology as “The science of God or of religion; the science which treats of the existence, character, and attributes of God, his laws and government, the doctrines we are to believe, and the duties we are to practice. . . the science of Christian faith and life.”

I wonder if God likes to be considered a science....I wonder if Hogshead would like to be studied like he was an insect like they study God

Knowledge of God and who He is will NOT come through your head but through your spirit via the Holy Spirit

Bendito said:

The fact that you have a piece of paper to hang over your toilet does not make you an expert on the Word. Its not what you know intellectually, its what interaction you have with God Himself.... For example you can know about Him but not know Him... You can expound until the cows come home and still not know Him....Its all about what the Holy Spirit can do through you, not what you can do for Him..
So far all you have done is to irritate people. Can you do it better?

Click to expand...

Look, your post is totally inappropriate. If you can't be polite and civil, I don't want to talk to you.

hoghead said:

Look, your post is totally inappropriate. If you can't be polite and civil, I don't want to talk to you.

Click to expand...

This is a good thing! I'm very not impressed by anyone who keeps pounding onto other people about how wonderful they are...It sickens me...Thank you muchly for stopping. Maybe now we can get back to the original topic?

hoghead said:

I don't think you quite grasped my point. Some have presented the Bible as an instruction book as to how to live. The reason I say that is naïve is that there are many laws we are not inclined to follow and with good reason. According to Exod. 21, slavery is sanctified. Do you believe that? Do you think you should sell your daughter into slavery, that that's OK with God? Do you follow all the dietary laws? Do you refrain from eating ham? Do you avoid wearing clothing made out of two different fabrics? What about polygamy? That's sanctified in the Bible. Do you hold with polygamy? What about the NT? Well, it does seem the dietary laws are dropped. But what about slavery? Paul tells the slave go to go back to his master. Would you have done that when the underground railroad was running? What about polygamy? Paul seems to push toward monogamy, but that is still a controversial issue. Also, he does hold up celibacy as a higher state than matrimony. Are you celibate? What about the many issues we face that aren't addressed at all in Scripture? Do you want to live like the traditional Amish did, a society where rubber tires were forbidden because Scripture said nothing about them?

Click to expand...

I do understand your point without getting into all of the specifics.

In a sense the Bible could be viewed as an instruction book, but only when and if we are able to understand God's message to us. One part of His message, I believe, relates to how we view our natural lives and how God views them. The view of believers should be moving toward God's view although at the moment what we see is likely to be through a "glass darkly" [I Cor 13:12].

Using the Bible for example as a basis for condoning or condemning the natural slavery of men by other men may be a correct usage according to men but is that the primary message God has for me... or for you? Never mind what God's message may have been for the people who lived during times described in OT history. The message that matters to me is His message to me living when I live.

hoghead said:

I'm kind of curious how much experience you have had in theological dialogues or in theology? I ask that because you seem to feel unduly threatened by what I am saying. I am simply sharing my POV. If you want to disagree, feel free to do so. However, I except some sort of rational rebuttal, not some sort of personal attack or complaint about fighting. If I seem sure of myself and very authoritative, it's because I am. I should be. I have a doctorate in theology and my dissertation focused on questions directly related to God's relationship to time and change. I also teach both philosophy and theology classes at the local U, as well as adult RE classes at a local church. I am also very careful to resent a rationale for what I say. I'm not trying to brag, I'm just trying to explain where I am coming from.

Click to expand...

Greetings @hoghead

Do you know.....Talk Jesus isn't interested in your intellectual conversations and proud answers.
Nor are we interested in your qualifications.
If asked I'm sure many here would be equally or more qualified, but choose not to boast.

We are interested in sharing the love and grace of Jesus and discussing His beautiful word.

It is acceptance of His free gift of salvation that saves us.....His grace, His mercy, His love.
Nothing of self is important.

I pray that you come to the Lord knowing that He loves you, knowing that He died to save you.....realising that NOTHING you do or know counts for anything.

BLessings and peace

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Galatians 6:14

Bendito said:

So I'm reading about a Cosmic Chess Match....Satan made his move..Tempted Havah to eat the fruit whereupon Adam chose to disobey God and lost his inheritance, giving it to Satan... God made His counter move....He promised His messiah.....

Question.... Why did God wait four thousand years to send the messiah?

Hint....I don't know the answer to this...I only have opinions...

Click to expand...

II Peter 3:8

Hello @hoghead
There was a lot I was going to say, but as usual the Holy Spirit moves me in another direction and so, much goes to the trash bin of the unsaid.

However, I will address in part the wall between us that won't be overcome. Clearly it pertains to inerrancy. Should this become a topic you would do well to first address what is meant by the subject so that all can clearly understand the parameters of what is to follow.

The following meaning of inerrancy might be useful for your future use. I came across this in some of my reading which you might find useful.

Meaning: When all the facts are known, the Scriptures in their original autographs, properly interpreted, will be shown to be wholly true in everything they affirm, whether this has to do with doctrine or morality or with the social, physical, or life sciences.

I will share with you that before the Holy Spirit prompting I had meant to open with the above and have a go with some ping pong with you. :wink: I now realize that we could go back and forth with much debate on the merits of each of the positions that we hold to be true. Me in inerrancy and you for fallible as it pertains to Scripture. Yet, we would accomplish very little in moving either one of us from where we hold to. In the end you would probably be banned, for your failure to believe Scripture posed to you.

Now to correct you in something that stated in your last post.
You made reference to me of my opening the door by mentioning the law and followed by choosing to ignore or pass over the point I was attempting to make to you.

Your post in part and then my reply. Hopefully, you will then see that the discussion was about time, not equivalency of past and present social mores as presented in His Laws to the Nation of Israel and how they should be viewed now.

hoghead said:

The other problem is that if there is no time in God, no before or after, no successiveness, then God can't create anything, as causality would be impossible.

Click to expand...

Christ4Ever said:

God is the creator of Laws, and this is why when He speaks it happens. You might be able to come up with an analogy that would even describe this. PC folks might think of it in a programmers lingo, while other areas of the mechanical might use other terminology, science defines different ones as well physics and the list goes on and on. However, the functionality might be different but they all accomplish a predetermined task/function. Push button, turn key, hit enter, scientific definitions, etc.


So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;It will not return to Me empty,Without accomplishing what I desire,And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.Isaiah 55:11

Click to expand...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that having to reply with so many posting in different areas you might have just been a bit mystified by my analogies and scripture reference.

Sadly, dinner is calling or I could spend all night here on this. I guess this is what the Holy Spirit was trying to stop me from doing! For everything a season........

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

Christ4Ever said:

Hello @hoghead
There was a lot I was going to say, but as usual the Holy Spirit moves me in another direction and so, much goes to the trash bin of the unsaid.

However, I will address in part the wall between us that won't be overcome. Clearly it pertains to inerrancy. Should this become a topic you would do well to first address what is meant by the subject so that all can clearly understand the parameters of what is to follow.

The following meaning of inerrancy might be useful for your future use. I came across this in some of my reading which you might find useful.

Meaning: When all the facts are known, the Scriptures in their original autographs, properly interpreted, will be shown to be wholly true in everything they affirm, whether this has to do with doctrine or morality or with the social, physical, or life sciences.

I will share with you that before the Holy Spirit prompting I had meant to open with the above and have a go with some ping pong with you. :wink: I now realize that we could go back and forth with much debate on the merits of each of the positions that we hold to be true. Me in inerrancy and you for fallible as it pertains to Scripture. Yet, we would accomplish very little in moving either one of us from where we hold to. In the end you would probably be banned, for your failure to believe Scripture posed to you.



Now to correct you in something that stated in your last post.
You made reference to me of my opening the door by mentioning the law and followed by choosing to ignore or pass over the point I was attempting to make to you.

Your post in part and then my reply. Hopefully, you will then see that the discussion was about time, not equivalency of past and present social mores as presented in His Laws to the Nation of Israel and how they should be viewed now.





I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that having to reply with so many posting in different areas you might have just been a bit mystified by my analogies and scripture reference.

Sadly, dinner is calling or I could spend all night here on this. I guess this is what the Holy Spirit was trying to stop me from doing! For everything a season........

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

Click to expand...

Look, if you are going to start banning me or others because they don't agree with your view on inerrancy, you might as well ban me right now. Such an attitude on your part simply shows you are intolerant and unable to enter into meaningful dialogue with others who do not share your views and with good reason. I am a newbie here and I will assure you I do not wish to participate in a forum managed such as that.

You keep referring to the Holy Spirit teaching you this or that. In theological discussions, arguing you are right because you believe the Spirit told you such-and-such is viewed as a totally bogus cop-out. You need to make a case for your position. Apparently you have problems with this notion, which is why you complain about playing "ping-pong" above. I came o this forum because I am interested in discussion and debate, and if that is something you do not want to participate in, then let me know and I'm outta here, believe me. If you disagree with what I have to say on inerrancy, that's fine with me. However, I want to hear your case. I provided more than one argument for my position in the batter, all of which on based on solid contemporary biblical scholarship. Now the burden falls on you to offer your rebuttal. If you, as some sort of moderator, find that idea offensive to you, then let me know and I'm outta here.
You touched on the question of how much control God has over creation. This is a complex matter. Your view that whatever God says automatically happens fits into predestination model of creation, true. However, that model can and has been questioned on a number of grounds. A major problem being that it denies any real sense of human freedom. As far as I am concerned the notion of divine omnipotence is a major theological mistake. both biblically and rationally.

hoghead said:

Look, if you are going to start banning me or others because they don't agree with your view on inerrancy, you might as well ban me right now. Such an attitude on your part simply shows you are intolerant and unable to enter into meaningful dialogue with others who do not share your views and with good reason. I am a newbie here and I will assure you I do not wish to participate in a forum managed such as that.

You keep referring to the Holy Spirit teaching you this or that. In theological discussions, arguing you are right because you believe the Spirit told you such-and-such is viewed as a totally bogus cop-out. You need to make a case for your position. Apparently you have problems with this notion, which is why you complain about playing "ping-pong" above. I came o this forum because I am interested in discussion and debate, and if that is something you do not want to participate in, then let me know and I'm outta here, believe me. If you disagree with what I have to say on inerrancy, that's fine with me. However, I want to hear your case. I provided more than one argument for my position in the batter, all of which on based on solid contemporary biblical scholarship. Now the burden falls on you to offer your rebuttal. If you, as some sort of moderator, find that idea offensive to you, then let me know and I'm outta here.
You touched on the question of how much control God has over creation. This is a complex matter. Your view that whatever God says automatically happens fits into predestination model of creation, true. However, that model can and has been questioned on a number of grounds. A major problem being that it denies any real sense of human freedom. As far as I am concerned the notion of divine omnipotence is a major theological mistake. both biblically and rationally.

Click to expand...

Wow!

@hoghead
For an RE your understanding of communication and scripture is lacking. If your post to me is what you read into what I posted to you. You've not been truthful in your own representative of yourself. Regardless, your inability to communicate in a thoughtful manner to someone who would disagree with you but still is willing to continue in a meaningful dialogue suggests that you would do better to spend some time in prayer and scripture reading in what it means to Love. 1 Corinthians 13 would be constructive, but I honestly believe the foot of the Cross might be a better starting point for you.

I hope to see you posting again with a changed heart and a renewed mind.
Nick
Moderator
<><

Christ4Ever said:

@hoghead
For an RE your understanding of communication and scripture is lacking. If your post to me is what you read into what I posted to you. You've not been truthful in your own representative of yourself. Regardless, your inability to communicate in a thoughtful manner to someone who would disagree with you but still is willing to continue in a meaningful dialogue suggests that you would do better to spend some time in prayer and scripture reading in what it means to Love. 1 Corinthians 13 would be constructive, but I honestly believe the foot of the Cross might be a better starting point for you.

I hope to see you posting again with a changed heart and a renewed mind.
Nick
Moderator
<><

Click to expand...

For a moderator, you understanding of theological dialogue and key issues such as the inerrancy of Scripture, etc., is sadly lacking. You should go back to school and get an education.

I've banned @hoghead. Horrible nasty attitude.

@Chad
Thank-you brother.
I have an early day, so I'm off to get a couple of hours of sleep.
As always brother.
Love you!
Prayers & blessings for you and yours.
Nick
<><

Hi all,
Who hath saved us, ( from sin) and called us with an Holy calling, not according to our works
but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Jesus Christ
before the world began, but is now made manifest, by the appearing of our
Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and
immortality to light through the gospel (2Tim, 1: 9-10).
So God planned for sin to enter the world before the world began, and He also
planned for Jesus to redeem us from sin.
Food for thought, you must be a sinner first for a state of a none sinner to exist,
and know the difference. If only sin existed you could not move to better state.
There would be no movement or hope of moving.
With Love, Wnl