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On the Cross, Jesus said, '' today you will be with me in paradise '' but........

GoodbyeSin

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Joined
Feb 5, 2015
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As he hung on the cross before he died , Jesus told a prisoner on a cross next to him that '' today, you shall be with me in Paradise''
I also read that Jesus went to hell for 3 days following his death on earth, so how could that prisoner have been with Jesus in Heaven the same day that he died?


The only way I can really understand it is that God is in heaven, Jesus , God and the Holy Spirit are a 3 in 1 trinity so because God is in Heave , so is Jesus?
 
As he hung on the cross before he died , Jesus told a prisoner on a cross next to him that '' today, you shall be with me in Paradise''
I also read that Jesus went to hell for 3 days following his death on earth, so how could that prisoner have been with Jesus in Heaven the same day that he died?
Because he is the one true God, Omniscient, Omnipotent and and Omnipresent....he can be everywhere at the same time..."Our God is an awesome God"!
 
This one is hard to reconcile. There are a few decent explanations I have heard.

I tend to believe that Abraham's Bosom and Paradise were basically one and the same for a while. The physical garden of Eden here on earth was called Paradise, so I don't know why another place that is not in heaven could not be referred to as Paradise either. But, if this was the case, I do not think it is any longer, and believe that when Jesus rose from the dead, he would have brought all these Old Testament saints with him and brought them to heaven with him when he ascended on high. So, to be in Paradise is to be with the Lord.

I could be wrong...

Travis
 
So, to be in Paradise is to be with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Paul was confident what it meant!
 
As he hung on the cross before he died , Jesus told a prisoner on a cross next to him that '' today, you shall be with me in Paradise''
I also read that Jesus went to hell for 3 days following his death on earth, so how could that prisoner have been with Jesus in Heaven the same day that he died?


The only way I can really understand it is that God is in heaven, Jesus , God and the Holy Spirit are a 3 in 1 trinity so because God is in Heave , so is Jesus?
Remember Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. For Jesus to fulfill all that was written about him Jesus had to suffer on the day of Passover. Passover always starts at sundown on the day before Passover and went for 12 hours, until the next sundown. Between the time Jesus died on the cross to sundown would have been the time Jesus would have been in "paradise". Which is why Jesus told the thief that he would be with him in paradise.
 
As he hung on the cross before he died , Jesus told a prisoner on a cross next to him that '' today, you shall be with me in Paradise''
I also read that Jesus went to hell for 3 days following his death on earth, so how could that prisoner have been with Jesus in Heaven the same day that he died?


The only way I can really understand it is that God is in heaven, Jesus , God and the Holy Spirit are a 3 in 1 trinity so because God is in Heave , so is Jesus?


A good book to read is Knowledge of the Holy by A.W. Tozar
There are a few websites that have the book online and you can read it for free.
 
As he hung on the cross before he died , Jesus told a prisoner on a cross next to him that '' today, you shall be with me in Paradise''
I also read that Jesus went to hell for 3 days following his death on earth, so how could that prisoner have been with Jesus in Heaven the same day that he died?


The only way I can really understand it is that God is in heaven, Jesus , God and the Holy Spirit are a 3 in 1 trinity so because God is in Heave , so is Jesus?
Where is heaven, my friend, according to scripture? Also where is the hell to which Jesus went according to scripture?

"If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." Psalm 139:8

Did not Jesus go to hell when he was born to a carnal woman as a human being? Yet, was not also at the same time in a way, which we perhaps cannot understand, in heaven?

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13
 
As he hung on the cross before he died , Jesus told a prisoner on a cross next to him that '' today, you shall be with me in Paradise''
I also read that Jesus went to hell for 3 days following his death on earth, so how could that prisoner have been with Jesus in Heaven the same day that he died?
The only way I can really understand it is that God is in heaven, Jesus , God and the Holy Spirit are a 3 in 1 trinity so because God is in Heave , so is Jesus?

When under the most difficult circumstances the murderer on the cross believed in Jesus and his Kingdom, the Master promised him: "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). Thus this man became a first planting in the heavenly garden of Eden.
For us Christians, we understand that the first heaven is the Kingdom of heaven in which we now live, the heavenly places and where we live, struggle and conquer. This struggle will go on until the Millennium, when Satan will have been conquered, and then the second, general resurrection of the dead will follow. Then we read: " I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away" (Rev 21:1).
This 'renovated' heaven we might call the second heaven, and the new earth the second earth. Here we find the church of Christ who achieved total perfection in spirit, soul and body at the first resurrection, when she was changed in a point of time. After the second resurrection we here also find the righteous of the old covenant who, although not perfect in their inner men, have received a spiritual body. Of them the bible says: "And all these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect" (Heb 11:39-40). The first will be the last.
It is clear that the congregation, the church, will have to lead to perfection the faithful of the old covenant and probably also those of the new dispensation who lived under the Law in the manner of the Old Testament. On the new earth all these will have received a new, resurrected body, but their inner beings still need restoration and they will still have to be filled with the Holy Spirit. In their case, too, rather then happening automatically, this has to be done by the eternal gospel which the congregation will make known to them: "The leaves of the trees (of life) were for the healing of the nations" (Rev 22:2). In this picture the trees of life are an image of the congregation, while the verse also mentions the river of the water of life: the Holy Spirit. When all the righteous of the old as well as of the new covenant have received this Spirit, the end will come, as it says: "Then comes the end ('telos' -the realization of the plan of God), when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father" (1Cor 15:24). Then the plan of God will have been completed, when God is everything to every one, (1Cor 15:28).
Many people love to sing of the Holy City, the new Jerusalem. For us, however, the restoration of the temple in this city is of greater importance. This will take place before the rebuilding of the city. In the new heaven and on the new earth the entire people of God will be restored and the faithful of the old covenant will be united with those of the new. Then the temple will not be seen any longer, as it has dissolved into the city of God. After the completion of the city there will be what could be called a third heaven. Thus the three heavens indicate the three stages of God's plan for mankind and creation. Once Paul was caught up in the spirit to the third heaven and he was allowed to catch a glimpse of the fully restored heavenly Paradise of which earthly Eden was the shadow (2Cor 12:1-4). Here the apostle saw the reality of the ultimate purpose of God's plan for man. The third heaven is not the third in terms of position but in terms of chronology.
During the first heaven there is the struggle to recapture Paradise. Then the second heaven follows in which 'Paradise regained' will be fully restored. Then all the trees and plants will fully function as they are intended to. In the center of Paradise there is the tree of life, an image of Christ, surrounded by the trees of life, images of the congregation. It has not been revealed what will follow after the restoration of Paradise. The bible only mentions the way which will lead to this destination. "It does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when He appears we shall be like Him" (1John 3:2).
Paul said that in the third heaven he had heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. This completed glory will be such as cannot be expressed in earthly images and words. It is therefore understandable that Paul, indicating the revelation of this mystery, wrote: "When you read this you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ" (Eph 3:3-4). It is certain that the apostles were quite aware of the glorious things to which their gospel was leading the creation. For them this was the great stimulus which kept them going joyfully amidst strong opposition.
Peter, too, saw something of the glory of the last heaven. With John and James he had been on the mountain of Transfiguration. There he saw the glory of Jesus when his countenance was altered and his clothes became dazzling white. But he also saw Moses and Elijah, the representatives of the old covenant, manifested in glory as partakers of the glory of the third heaven (Luke 9:28-36).The disciples saw all these things in a vision (Matt.19.9).
Fourteen years after the event Paul still drew strength from his vision, and until his departure was at hand Peter kept reminding the faithful of this joyful future (2Peter 1:15-21).
The bible says that Jesus 'passed through the heavens' (Heb 4:14). Here the expression means the first heaven, the heavenly places of the Kingdom of God, the kingdom of Satan and the realm of the dead. Here the word heavens is used opposite earth, where the high priest could not go beyond a visible, natural sanctuary. By his death Jesus was hidden from the visible world and went through light and darkness in the spiritual world. In the Kingdom of Light He sacrificed his life on the heavenly altar. In the realm of darkness He dethroned Satan, and in Hades He took possession of the keys of death. In the visible world He then ascended to 'heaven' as his disciples were looking on. This was an image of the fact that in the unseen world He was taking his place on the throne of God as the firstborn of the new creation. As far as Jesus Himself is concerned, He has reached his purpose and destination, and at the first resurrection his church will also occupy her position on the throne of God. From this center of authority Jesus is founding Paradise in the unseen world, and here on earth He uses his servants for the same purpose.

Ummm, "GoodbyeSin', I would volunteer much more ideas and concepts for you to consider about 'Paradise' if you would ask. I'm a little reluctant to do this without someone first expressing interest in the subject ... the very last thing I want to be doing is to flood this Forum with lengthy Posts/Comments.
 
I have seen Christians argue about this, and to me its kind of silly, to me the real IMPORTANT part is The thief repented at the last minute and received Grace from our Lord and saviour Jesus, to me that is what this verse is all about hey its never to late to Repent. I just don't see the importance of all the small details he is going to paradise that is all that matters some say sooner and some say later but he is going and their is no arguing about that.
 
As he hung on the cross before he died , Jesus told a prisoner on a cross next to him that '' today, you shall be with me in Paradise''
I also read that Jesus went to hell for 3 days following his death on earth, so how could that prisoner have been with Jesus in Heaven the same day that he died?


The only way I can really understand it is that God is in heaven, Jesus , God and the Holy Spirit are a 3 in 1 trinity so because God is in Heave , so is Jesus?

What a good question...Here's your answer...Do you remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man? Luke 16:19-31 Lazarus was a poor servant and of course the rich man was a total dork, mean and nasty right clear through. They both died and the rich guy looks up from where he was, all hot and uncomfortable, and thirsty, and he sees Lazarus cool and comfortable in the company of Abraham.... Yes You remember.
Ok At the time Jesus died on the cross hell and paradise occupied the same place, separated by a void. ..Jesus went to hell took the keys of authority from Satan and preached to the saints in paradise. The He took all of those saints with Him out of there, whereupon hell enlarged herself as the bible describes it.
Ephesians 4:7-9(CJB)
7 Each one of us, however, has been given grace to be measured by the Messiah’s bounty. 8 This is why it says,

“After he went up into the heights,
he led captivity captive
and he gave gifts to mankind.”a]">[a]

9 Now this phrase, “he went up,” what can it mean if not that he first went down into the lower parts, that is, the earth?
 
Where is heaven, my friend, according to scripture? Also where is the hell to which Jesus went according to scripture?

"If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." Psalm 139:8

Did not Jesus go to hell when he was born to a carnal woman as a human being? Yet, was not also at the same time in a way, which we perhaps cannot understand, in heaven?

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

This explanation is a bit too ethereal my friend
 
What a good question...Here's your answer...Do you remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man? Luke 16:19-31 Lazarus was a poor servant and of course the rich man was a total dork, mean and nasty right clear through. They both died and the rich guy looks up from where he was, all hot and uncomfortable, and thirsty, and he sees Lazarus cool and comfortable in the company of Abraham.... Yes You remember.
Ok At the time Jesus died on the cross hell and paradise occupied the same place, separated by a void. ..Jesus went to hell took the keys of authority from Satan and preached to the saints in paradise. The He took all of those saints with Him out of there, whereupon hell enlarged herself as the bible describes it.
Ephesians 4:7-9(CJB)
7 Each one of us, however, has been given grace to be measured by the Messiah’s bounty. 8 This is why it says,

“After he went up into the heights,
he led captivity captive
and
he gave gifts to mankind.”a]">[a]

9 Now this phrase, “he went up,” what can it mean if not that he first went down into the lower parts, that is, the earth?


That is one of the best explanations I have herd, I may share that with some people, and give you credit of course.
 
"Paradise" isn't heaven. The Garden of Eden wasn't heaven. This place was also known as Abraham's Bosom in some translations.
Both "Paradise" and "Hell" are temporary places. Hell eventually gets cast into the Lake of Fire. Those in Paradise eventually
go to Heaven/The New Jerusalem and the New Earth.
 
"Paradise" isn't heaven. The Garden of Eden wasn't heaven. This place was also known as Abraham's Bosom in some translations.
Both "Paradise" and "Hell" are temporary places. Hell eventually gets cast into the Lake of Fire. Those in Paradise eventually
go to Heaven/The New Jerusalem and the New Earth.

Yup...So here's the question.....If Jesus took all those that were in Paradise/ Abraham's Bosom out of there and brought them to the Father, then hell enlarged, Where is paradise today? The Word says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. That being the case.....When one dies he does not go to a temporary place that is no longer there but he goes to heaven, to be with the Lord. From what I understand of the Word, hell is still there but it fills the space where paradise was.
 
Yup...So here's the question.....If Jesus took all those that were in Paradise/ Abraham's Bosom out of there and brought them to the Father, then hell enlarged, Where is paradise today? The Word says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. That being the case.....When one dies he does not go to a temporary place that is no longer there but he goes to heaven, to be with the Lord. From what I understand of the Word, hell is still there but it fills the space where paradise was.

I agree with all of this... except for the fact that I don't think we are immediately absent from the body.
 
I agree with all of this... except for the fact that I don't think we are immediately absent from the body.
Huh? I know that you don't really think that we are trapped in a dead rotting carcass when we die? Now THAT would be cruel. So could you please explain?
 
Huh? I know that you don't really think that we are trapped in a dead rotting carcass when we die? Now THAT would be cruel. So could you please explain?

I don't think we will necessarily know or care. We are asleep. Even if we weren't... it's our old body.
There is no smell, no pain, we may not even be aware of where we are. So what's cruel about it?
 
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