If salvation is by faith alone, then are Satanists saved?

Ophel · Apr 3, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
That verse only says "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord" and "believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead".

Is there something else it should say?

Ophel · Apr 3, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
I agree 100% that only God knows and the difference between the saved and the unsaved is the indwelling of The Holy Spirit. But I would not say the difference is between "true believer" and "they say they believe but they dont really believe". I think its obvious that some truly believe but are not saved because they love darkness rather than light.

Anyone who "truly" believes IN Jesus Christ is saved.

Ophel · Apr 3, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
Because the bible says that faith without works Is dead. Therefore, if one truly believes, but does not work, then they are not saved. Faith without works is dead. The Gospel says that all who believe will be saved. But I think that what is assumed is love of God, THE God, and not just simply love of the god of our imagination. It is true that if The Holy Spirit lives inside of us that we will be saved. But I think its possible for a person to grieve The Spirit to the point of The Spirit leaving them. "THE BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT"

No born again believer can commit such an offense. He says He will never leave us or forsake us.

Hebrews 13:5b (NLT)
“I will never fail you.
I will never abandon you."

Philippians 1:6 (NLT)
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.

Ophel · Apr 3, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
I am not saved because I mentioned the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit?
Let me remind you, it was Jesus who taught us about the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit!

You ask how it is possible for a person to drift away completely from salvation, well, how is it possible for a person to drift away at all? Free will. As long as we strive to draw near to Christ, God promises to finish His work in us. God does not and will not force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. His promise was not "once you show an interest in me, I will force you to come to me eternally". It is that if we draw near to Him, He will draw near to us. Granting us The Holy Spirit does not mean that we can not reject The Holy Spirit. I would argue that the very fact that Jesus taught about the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit indicates that we can indeed reject The Holy Spirit. It is a terrible sin, an unforgivable sin. But a possibility nonetheless.

One who legally adopts a child makes that child one of his family. God doesn't abandon His legally adopted children. We are changed forever once we receive Jesus Christ's blood over all our sins. ALL our sins are now forgiven---past, present and future, and we are now part of the household of God. He cannot and will not ever let us go.

RJ · Apr 3, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
I am not saved because I mentioned the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit?

Who said this and what are you saying?

TaylorDonBarret said:
Let me remind you, it was Jesus who taught us about the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit!

Yes and that doesn't change what it means!

TaylorDonBarret said:
You ask how it is possible for a person to drift away completely from salvation, well, how is it possible for a person to drift away at all?

You don't / can't understand me. You have your theology and I have mine. You have to dance with who brought you; let's just leave it at that!

TaylorDonBarret said:
God promises to finish His work in us.

Yes, and like I said, there is no indication in scripture that he will desert you. You might loose your way at times but once saved, you can't fall away to complete Apostasy or all out rejection of Christ. A person who says they were a Christian but converted to Islam, was never a Christian in the first place.

TaylorDonBarret said:
I would argue that the very fact that Jesus taught about the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit indicates that we can indeed reject The Holy Spirit. It is a terrible sin, an unforgivable sin.

A non-believer reject Jesus, for sure.... a believer reject Jesus, not possible.
Again, you have your theology and I have mine, someday soon we will know the truth for sure!, until then, let's agree to disagree on this one and move on to another subject!

Curtis · Apr 3, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
I am not saved because I mentioned the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit?
Let me remind you, it was Jesus who taught us about the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit!

You ask how it is possible for a person to drift away completely from salvation, well, how is it possible for a person to drift away at all? Free will. As long as we strive to draw near to Christ, God promises to finish His work in us. God does not and will not force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. His promise was not "once you show an interest in me, I will force you to come to me eternally". It is that if we draw near to Him, He will draw near to us. Granting us The Holy Spirit does not mean that we can not reject The Holy Spirit. I would argue that the very fact that Jesus taught about the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit indicates that we can indeed reject The Holy Spirit. It is a terrible sin, an unforgivable sin. But a possibility nonetheless.

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Notice: All manner of sin shall be forgiven. The only sin that will never be forgiven is "unbelief". It is the Holy Spirit which brings conviction, and it is the drawing process by which God brings a person to Jesus for salvation.
If anyone "rejects" that drawing, and conviction, that is "blaspheming the Holy Spirit!" The Lord God does not have or should I say the Lord will not give anything other than what the Spirit of God uses to bring people to salvation.
A Christian can not do this, because he has already accepted God's offer to man which came by the Word of God coupled with the Holy Spirit's drawing power.

TaylorDonBarret · Apr 3, 2015

OK you guys, I do not have the time right now to address all of the replies on this page. What I will say is that I do not have a set theology, I am not a calvinists or an arminian or a protestant or a catholic or any of these things. I am just a Christian who is trying his best to understand the word of God. I appreciate different theologies, I listen to baptist preachers, pentecostal preachers, orthodox preachers, methodist preachers, catholic preachers, etc etc. I try my best to study all Christianity and develop my belief system on what the bible says, and not based on what some man said. I understand that "once saved always saved" theology is very appealing and has some very good arguments and some strong biblical support, as does "easy believism", both are strong arguments with lots of support. but i can not accept them when so much of the bible also says something else. I do not attempt to make the word of God tight and neat and put it in a box, i think there are many mysteries that we can not simply wrap up in a tight neat box of a logical theology. so i do not try to twist one scripture in order to fit with another, but i try to see how they all work together to form a whole, and when there is an apparent contradiction i do my best to reconcile them, not by using some man made theology, but by using scripture as a whole. and when that cant be done, then i assume a mystery. that is all i will say for now. as for most of all the things you guys have said to me in this thread, i think i have already given you my opinion on those things. try not to read more into a scripture than it actually says, thats my big thing. what does it actually say, not what does the mainstream reformed guy say about it, not what does my favorite theology say about it, but what does the scripture actually say. nothing more, nothing less.

RJ · Apr 3, 2015

RJ said:
Yes, and like I said, there is no indication in scripture that he will desert you. You might loose your way at times but once saved, you can't fall away to complete Apostasy or all out rejection of Christ. A person who says they were a Christian but converted to Islam, was never a Christian in the first place.

No other religion can do this, this is what "set us apart". No other has this, like Islam, Buddism....etc. no other religion has there God living in them.

RJ · Apr 3, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
OK you guys, I do not have the time right now to address all of the replies on this page. What I will say is that I do not have a set theology, I am not a calvinists or an arminian or a protestant or a catholic or any of these things. I am just a Christian who is trying his best to understand the word of God. I appreciate different theologies, I listen to baptist preachers, pentecostal preachers, orthodox preachers, methodist preachers, catholic preachers, etc etc. I try my best to study all Christianity and develop my belief system on what the bible says, and not based on what some man said. I understand that "once saved always saved" theology is very appealing and has some very good arguments and some strong biblical support, as does "easy believism", both are strong arguments with lots of support. but i can not accept them when so much of the bible also says something else. I do not attempt to make the word of God tight and neat and put it in a box, i think there are many mysteries that we can not simply wrap up in a tight neat box of a logical theology. so i do not try to twist one scripture in order to fit with another, but i try to see how they all work together to form a whole, and when there is an apparent contradiction i do my best to reconcile them, not by using some man made theology, but by using scripture as a whole. and when that cant be done, then i assume a mystery. that is all i will say for now. as for most of all the things you guys have said to me in this thread, i think i have already given you my opinion on those things. try not to read more into a scripture than it actually says, thats my big thing. what does it actually say, not what does the mainstream reformed guy say about it, not what does my favorite theology say about it, but what does the scripture actually say. nothing more, nothing less.

Sounds like it is time to get things straight!:thumbsup:

Curtis · Apr 3, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
OK you guys, I do not have the time right now to address all of the replies on this page. What I will say is that I do not have a set theology, I am not a calvinists or an arminian or a protestant or a catholic or any of these things. I am just a Christian who is trying his best to understand the word of God. I appreciate different theologies, I listen to baptist preachers, pentecostal preachers, orthodox preachers, methodist preachers, catholic preachers, etc etc. I try my best to study all Christianity and develop my belief system on what the bible says, and not based on what some man said. I understand that "once saved always saved" theology is very appealing and has some very good arguments and some strong biblical support, as does "easy believism", both are strong arguments with lots of support. but i can not accept them when so much of the bible also says something else. I do not attempt to make the word of God tight and neat and put it in a box, i think there are many mysteries that we can not simply wrap up in a tight neat box of a logical theology. so i do not try to twist one scripture in order to fit with another, but i try to see how they all work together to form a whole, and when there is an apparent contradiction i do my best to reconcile them, not by using some man made theology, but by using scripture as a whole. and when that cant be done, then i assume a mystery. that is all i will say for now. as for most of all the things you guys have said to me in this thread, i think i have already given you my opinion on those things. try not to read more into a scripture than it actually says, thats my big thing. what does it actually say, not what does the mainstream reformed guy say about it, not what does my favorite theology say about it, but what does the scripture actually say. nothing more, nothing less.

Brother I am in the same boat as you. I do not belong to any man made denominations of any kind. I am just to born again child of God, searching for the truth that only the anointing, taught by the Holy Spirit gives. I do not know it all, but what I do know and believe as truth I share with others. The good part is you can believe anything you want. Just do not use your mind to discover spiritual truth, always listen to your heart which is where Jesus dwells. He can never be deceived.

RJ · Apr 3, 2015

Curtis said:
The good part is you can believe anything you want

That statement defies truth!

Curtis · Apr 3, 2015

RJ said:
That statement defies truth!

Can any man force you to believe anything? Who decides what you believe? You make the ultimate decision not someone else.

RJ · Apr 3, 2015

Curtis said:
Can any man force you to believe anything? Who decides what you believe?

Sorry, but if you think that a person can believe anything they want to, as you say, well we are not reading the same Bible!
Let's put it this way, instead of saying you can believe anything you want, let's agree to say: "you can say anything you want to as long as you know it is the truth"!

Curtis · Apr 3, 2015

RJ said:
Sorry, but if you think that a person can believe anything they want to, as you say, well we are not reading the same Bible!
Let's put it this way, instead of saying you can believe anything you want, let's agree to say: "you can say anything you want to as long as you know it is the truth"!

What I should have said, when ever a man hears truth coming from two or more view points, that man has the right to choose which one he will believe.

ForumAddict · Apr 3, 2015

Greetings all! I am confused and concerned after reading this thread that no one has offered the verse in question of the op. I am also concerned how the Word is being dissected out of text.

Let's look at the verse on which the OP is based ...

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

What does the verse say?

Curtis · Apr 3, 2015

ForumAddict said:
Greetings all! I am confused and concerned after reading this thread that no one has offered the verse in question of the op. I am also concerned how the Word is being dissected out of text.

Let's look at the verse on which the OP is based ...

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

What does the verse say?

It says, we are saved by "grace". But, if I want to "access" this salvation which was given to me by grace, that would require "faith" on my part.

RJ · Apr 3, 2015

ForumAddict said:
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

What does the verse say?

That salvation is a gift of God, which he calls Grace and there is no works a man do to earn that salvation! Faith is a gift not a work.

Ophel · Apr 3, 2015

Hebrews 7:24-25
But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Ophel · Apr 3, 2015

RJ said:
Sorry, but if you think that a person can believe anything they want to, as you say, well we are not reading the same Bible!
Let's put it this way, instead of saying you can believe anything you want, let's agree to say: "you can say anything you want to as long as you know it is the truth"!

We are a fortunate people, in that we have the freedom to choose to believe or not to believe, given to us by God and allowed by the governments we live under. We are not under the thumb of a political oppressor...yet.

Curtis · Apr 3, 2015

Ophel said:
Hebrews 7:24-25
But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Thank God, Jesus's prayers are always answered!

Welcome!

If salvation is by faith alone, then are Satanists saved?

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