I do not have scripture that says when. If I answer this it will be my opinion.
Book of Life
- Thread starter Grace
- Start date
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12,063
Infants may be in there, but IF they are, they are all removed at some point. The Bible makes it clear most people won't make it to heaven. Also keep in mind the phrase "since the foundation of the earth" is taken a couple of ways.
Calvinists - Predestinationists, believe this means peoples name were written the same day the earth was created.
However the more mainstream interpretation is... everyone who has ever lived "since the foundation of the earth"
who has been saved, no matter what century that was in.. has their names written in the BOL when they get saved.
Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 6:23; For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Everyone has sinned. Everyone but Jesus. Everyone else deserves death.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of MyFather who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Luke 13:23; And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them,
Luke 13:24; "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Stickz
Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2011
- Messages
- 465
Well, I'll admit that I have never sat down and made it my goal to figure the whens and hows of the Book of Life, but will admit that you do have a strong argument for all names to start out in it. I'm not sure if this verse from one of David's prayers has already been given somewhere in the thread as an example, but David was apparently cursing his enemies:
Psalms 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. ( KJV )
Psalms 69:28 They are blotted out of the book of life, And with the righteous are not written. ( Young's Literal Translation )
Psalms 69:28 Let them be put out of the booke of life, neither let them be written with the righteous. ( Geneva1599 )
Psalms 69:28 Blot them out from the Book of Life; yea, let them not be written with the righteous. ( Green's Literal Translation )
and I cannot see David cursing people that might have been righteous(?). Then again, this verse in Revelation could have been written differently:
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. ( KJV )
Revelation 17:8 The beast which you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss, and goes to perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, the ones whose names have not been written on the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, seeing the beast, that it was a thing, and is not, yet now is. ( Green's Literal Translation )
Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. ( English Standard Version )
Why doesn't it read "whose names had been blotted out of the Book of Life"? or take it just like it is worded "whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world" sorta sounds like their names weren't written in there from the foundation of the world. Either way, your argument seems a little stronger, to me, at this point. Now, the people from the Revelation verse are going to be alive and on the earth, apparently, so we must assume that if their names had started out in the book that they had reached that point of "rejection", I guess, and were blotted out of the book, correct? Can they get there names added again? We'd never find scriptural support for that because you cannot find scripture where someone's name was added to the book.
Different translations word things differently, so I am going to have to research some into the earlier texts to see which words the translators were translating from.
Psalms 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. ( KJV )
Psalms 69:28 They are blotted out of the book of life, And with the righteous are not written. ( Young's Literal Translation )
Psalms 69:28 Let them be put out of the booke of life, neither let them be written with the righteous. ( Geneva1599 )
Psalms 69:28 Blot them out from the Book of Life; yea, let them not be written with the righteous. ( Green's Literal Translation )
and I cannot see David cursing people that might have been righteous(?). Then again, this verse in Revelation could have been written differently:
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. ( KJV )
Revelation 17:8 The beast which you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss, and goes to perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, the ones whose names have not been written on the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, seeing the beast, that it was a thing, and is not, yet now is. ( Green's Literal Translation )
Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. ( English Standard Version )
Why doesn't it read "whose names had been blotted out of the Book of Life"? or take it just like it is worded "whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world" sorta sounds like their names weren't written in there from the foundation of the world. Either way, your argument seems a little stronger, to me, at this point. Now, the people from the Revelation verse are going to be alive and on the earth, apparently, so we must assume that if their names had started out in the book that they had reached that point of "rejection", I guess, and were blotted out of the book, correct? Can they get there names added again? We'd never find scriptural support for that because you cannot find scripture where someone's name was added to the book.
Different translations word things differently, so I am going to have to research some into the earlier texts to see which words the translators were translating from.
That's a good way to look at it. Do you believe a born again Christian can be blotted out of the book. If so, why and how.
I do not know if I can word this right but I will try...
In Romans 8 it says that all things work for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose (that none should perish). God wants all to stay in the book of life. It is our choice to reject what Jesus did on the cross for our sake. Yes! God knows all things (foreknow) he also predestinate(preplanned) us to be conformed to the image of Jesus. That was his plan before the foundation of the world...he wrote our names in the book of life...we are blotted out by rejecting the blood of Jesus.
So we are kept by His blood in the book of life. Without his blood it is as if we were never in it or blotted out. This is where I am at on this study unless someone can show me something different IN SCRIPTURES. I belileve babies are protected by His blood and kept in the book of life...how can a baby reject Jesus?
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12,063
Rom 2:12;
(GW) Here's the reason: Whoever sins without having laws from God will still be condemned to destruction. And whoever has laws from God and sins will still be judged by them.
(NLT) When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the Jews, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
I've already given you Romans 3:23; and Romans 6:23; which say everyone has sinned, and if you sin you you die.
It isn't required that you reject Jesus, all that is required is that you sin.
I've also given you interpretations that say "since the foundation of the world" doesn't mean everyone was put in the BOL before the earth existed, it just means everyone who has existed (all of us) since the foundation of the earth who are saved.
Isa 59:2; But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.
Accepting Jesus has to be a conscience choice, no one is saved by accident.
(GW) Here's the reason: Whoever sins without having laws from God will still be condemned to destruction. And whoever has laws from God and sins will still be judged by them.
(NLT) When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the Jews, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
I've already given you Romans 3:23; and Romans 6:23; which say everyone has sinned, and if you sin you you die.
It isn't required that you reject Jesus, all that is required is that you sin.
I've also given you interpretations that say "since the foundation of the world" doesn't mean everyone was put in the BOL before the earth existed, it just means everyone who has existed (all of us) since the foundation of the earth who are saved.
Isa 59:2; But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.
Accepting Jesus has to be a conscience choice, no one is saved by accident.
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
Yes, it is by our own choice, so if we die rejecting Jesus Christ, we are never put into the BOL (book of life) in the first place!
Only because, by faith we chose Jesus Christ.
You can't be blotted out if you are not in the BOL in the first place.
So, if you were put into the BOL because you accepted the blood of Jesus and you are kept there by the same blood that continues to wash you, then once in the BOL, you can not be removed, otherwise God didn't mean it when he said my Grace is sufficient for you!
Stickz
Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2011
- Messages
- 465
Not that I'm saying that I agree or disagree, but I do still feel that Grace makes a good point. There appears, to me anyway, to be more scripture to support what Grace is saying. Can anyone show anything else in scripture to support that believers names are placed in the Book of Life at any given time?
Scripture discusses being blotted out so there is apparently a way to be so, RJ. If you also believe that people do not start out in the Book of Life it makes little sense to talk like a person cannot be blotted out of it. What Grace is saying actually supports your doctrine of OSAS better, in my opinion.
I believe we should be more interested in finding out what the truth actually is about something scriptural than just proving what we were always taught about it.
And Paul was told, "My Grace is sufficient for you," I don't remember that ever being said as though covering us all(?). Personally, I think that was meant entirely for Paul, but that is just my opinion.
Scripture discusses being blotted out so there is apparently a way to be so, RJ. If you also believe that people do not start out in the Book of Life it makes little sense to talk like a person cannot be blotted out of it. What Grace is saying actually supports your doctrine of OSAS better, in my opinion.
I believe we should be more interested in finding out what the truth actually is about something scriptural than just proving what we were always taught about it.
And Paul was told, "My Grace is sufficient for you," I don't remember that ever being said as though covering us all(?). Personally, I think that was meant entirely for Paul, but that is just my opinion.
I agree with most of what you have posted. We just disagree about the book of life..and when you are put in the book.
This is your opinion and I respect that but we just see it different. Can you show me in His Word something to back up that we are placed in the book of life after we are saved?
Do you not believe God knows from the foundation of the world that we are going to stay in the book of life?
You are not found in the book if you have been blotted out!
I believe it is by his blood that we are kept in the book and once we receive him we are covered. But until we receive Him we are not covered and can be blotted out.
Who is we?
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
- You are put in the BOL, the very instant that God deposits the Holy Spirit inside you.
- God has the power to know this from the beginning because he is the Alpha and the Omega!
- "Blotted out" means to have never been put in. A person who dies without receiving Jesus by faith, has his name blotted out of the BOL!
- This is so simple, I can 't believe it is so hard for some! We all start out, at the beginning of the Universe, in or out of the BOL based on being saved or not! You are either in the book in the beginning or you are not!
I think this thread has lost its value when people loose the goal of growing in better understanding of the word of God.
We need to assess what our intent is. Is it to prove someone wrong or to help them understand with a teachable spirit of our own
As Christians our standard is no longer right or wrong but the cross.
peter
We need to assess what our intent is. Is it to prove someone wrong or to help them understand with a teachable spirit of our own
As Christians our standard is no longer right or wrong but the cross.
peter
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
In addition:
Revelation 17: 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition; and the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
Some written in the BOL and some, here not written in the book from the foundation of the world. Dwellers on earth, not saved. Blotted out means to never have been allowed in the BOL in the first place
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
Revelation 17: 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition; and the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
Some written in the BOL and some, here not written in the book from the foundation of the world. Dwellers on earth, not saved. Blotted out means to never have been allowed in the BOL in the first place. The BOL, was created at the foundation of the Universe. That being true and a person , whose name has not been written in the BOL from the foundation of the world, was never in the book because they died with their unbelief!
Blotted out does not mean once in the book and then removed, it means not allowed in in the first place. To think otherwise is secular and not spiritual!
Stickz
Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2011
- Messages
- 465
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. ( KJV )
Revelation 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. ( NASB )
I find it interesting that even the translators tried to choose the words sometimes from a biased standpoint, apparently. I think RJ's quote of the verse comes from the NIV, so you have three different translations choosing three different wordings for tense in the verse.
Revelation 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. ( NASB )
I find it interesting that even the translators tried to choose the words sometimes from a biased standpoint, apparently. I think RJ's quote of the verse comes from the NIV, so you have three different translations choosing three different wordings for tense in the verse.
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12,063
These are two groups of people, there are 3 groups.
Those in the BOL (saved) whether from the foundation of the earth or from the moment of salvation doesn't matter too much.
Those who were never in the BOL (since the foundation of the earth) never were saved at all.
Those who were in the BOL and then removed or blotted out.
You can't blot out or remove what isn't there to blot or remove.
Those in the BOL (saved) whether from the foundation of the earth or from the moment of salvation doesn't matter too much.
Those who were never in the BOL (since the foundation of the earth) never were saved at all.
Those who were in the BOL and then removed or blotted out.
You can't blot out or remove what isn't there to blot or remove.
