Women Preachers?

[Cody]

Should women take authority over men in the church or the house? God says no.

First I would like us to look at what the book of First Timothy says about this subject.

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." KJV

In verses 11-12, God has shown that he gives specific roles to both man and woman. He tells the woman not to teach, nor take authority over the man.

Note: Usurp- to use without authority or right

In verse 13-14, God tells why he has gave this role. Adam was made first, then Eve. God tells us that Adam was not the one that was deceived, rather it was the woman that was deceived by the devil. I believe God is telling us that this is the reason why man should be the head because Eve was the one to be deceived.

Note: Notice that no where in the book of First Timothy does it give a specific education status to teach. Also I would like you to consider that there were fishermen called to be Jesus' disciples. So education has nothing to do with this subject.


Now Lets look at some verses in 1 Timothy 3:2-4, Titus 1:6-9 and 1 Timothy 6:14.

1 Timothy 3:2-4
2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;" KJV

In verse 2, God tells us the qualifications for a bishop. Notice that one is that he is the husband of one wife. It does not say the wife of one husband.

Then in verse 4, it goes on to says that he must also be ruler of his house. I believe the word of God makes it clear that man must be the ruler of the house. This is not because man is better, but because God has given us specific roles.

I would like to show that is says pretty much the same thing in Titus.

Titus 1:6-9
6 "If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers." KJV


Until when do these rules stand? Let's look in 1 Timothy 6.

1 Timothy 6:14
"That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:" KJV

Paul tells us that these to keep these commandments until the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't believe Jesus has came back yet, so I don't believe these rules should be done away with.


Now let's go to the book of First Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 11:3
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." KJV

Here it is obvious that it is stating that Christ is the head of man and man is the head of woman. If woman is to take head of the man, that is like man trying to take the head of Christ. I believe this is very wrong and must be avoided.

On down in verses 8-9...

1 Corinthians 11:8-9
8 "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." KJV

This basically tells us that the woman was created for the man, not the man created for the woman.

Now lets go back up to verse 5.

1 Corinthians 11:5
"But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven." KJV

This tells us that women can pray and prophesy and goes on to talk about how they must do that, but we won't get into that because that is a different subject.

Note: Please take a look where women were prophesying in song in 1 Chronicles 25.


Alright, now lets look at 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 1 Corinthians 14:37.

1 Corinthians 1:2
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:" KJV

Notice that Paul said these rules are not just for the church of Corinth, but for every church. I believe he makes this clear in the above verse.

And then in 1 Corinthians 14:37...

1 Corinthians 14:37
"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." KJV

We must read God's word and know that this is His commandments. This verse says if we consider ourself spiritual, we must obey these commandments. I don't know how more direct God can be about this subject.


In the book of Isaiah...

Isaiah 3:12
"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." KJV

The prophet Isaiah condemned these people because there were women that ruled over them.


Alright remember that God did not say anything about women not being able to teach children or other women. So I believe this is alright for women to do. I believe women can have their own studies, where only women are present. Also, I would like to bring back up, that women can also sing and pray in church. When women are to be told to keep silent in church, it only means they cannot take authority over the males in the church by teaching or preaching. Here is an example of women teaching other women in the Bible.

Titus 2:3-5
3 "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." KJV


Finally I want to end this article with some verses in Ephesians 5:21-25.

Ephesians 5:21-25
21 "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" KJV

In verse 22, wives are told to submit to their husbands and also the Lord.

Then in verse 23-24, we see here again that the husband is head of the wife, as Christ is ahead of the church. So as the church is subject to Christ, the wife must also be subject to the husband.

And here in verse 25, men are told to love their wives like Christ loved the church. Christ loved the church so much that he gave his life for us. Praise God!


I'm sorry if this article has angered or saddened anyone. I did not type this to do so, rather I wanted to point out what God has clearly said about this subject, that I see is a problem today. We must never be afraid to quote God's word because only God's word is the absolute truth. We can always correct people by God's word and that will never change. God's word will stand forever!

2 Timothy 3:16
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" KJV

God Bless you all, Cody

 

[willb]

I have read much on this subject and have to agree with your general conclusions.

One thing that must be reinforced however i think - men are not better than women...they just have different roles. God has designed things to work well not chaos with everyone challenging for the same roles. Just because women cannot do certian things does not make them lesser....every Christian has a vital role that God has anointed them and them alone to do.

Its to our shame i think that we focus more on what women cannot do instead of the things they can do and encourage them in that.

 

[Dreamer]

Women should not be over men in the church. However, some women are called to Ministries. Especially ministries to other women, and ministries that touch children.

For instance, I cannot imagine that a man should be a director over Christian Women Job Corp. CWJC is a nationwide ministry based from WMU (Womens Missionary Union) of the Southern Baptists.

I volunteer at my local CWJC and I also work with the WOMEN at a small local shelter. I do not work with the men, however. I leave that up to the men who are called to do that.

Two days ago, I was in a rather important meeting with the Director of Missions in my county, his wife, and his secretary. I am starting a new ministry, Sparrow House (a transitional housing project for addiction recovery.)

The Dir. of Missions (Bro. Roger) is very supportive of Sparrow House and is doing everything he can to support me and help me. I was asked, however, by his secretary...."Do you really think you will be able to work with the men in the program?"

I answered no. But God will bring the man to leadership that will do so. There are many more men (and women) who will be called to serve in Sparrow House. Not just me.

But you can't deny, Cody, that God does call women to ministries. And I hate to sound catty, but.....men are not so good at ministering to women. They don't understand us. Just as men are better equipped to minister one-on-one to other men.

 

[rizen1]

= Will b
Its to our shame i think that we focus more on what women cannot do instead of the things they can do and encourage them in that.
07-12-07 02:52 AM

I must applaud you by this statement. I think a good message can be missed when we ignore the messenger. I know some women who are discourage to do anything in church, in fear that these verses be used against them. Which causes them to be living in disobedience to what God has called them to do ( I'm not talking being pastors ).

I think this is a great topic, I know the debate on women being leaders and not being able to preach. We cant stop at just authoritive roles, what about females giving out tracts or witnessing to men, is this not a form of teaching.
Is it just the pulpit or does this rule apply on the streets.

I took this from an article " What role should women play at church?
Should women keep quiet during church services " by Carl Franklin
What do you think?


Spiritual knowledge is granted by God to Christian women as well as to Christian men. The revelations and insight that God gives through His Spirit are meant to be shared by all His begotten children so that all may be edified. Christian wives are not excluded from this mutual edification. It is not ungodly for a Christian wife to "teach men," including her own husband, by sharing the spiritual insight and understanding that God has imparted to her, whether in public or in private.

Paul simply states that for her to assume a dominant role in teaching the gospel would be ungodly and would undermine the God-given order of things.
..............these Scriptures should not be used to forbid a wife to teach men, including her husband, on an intermittent basis, as she is moved by God to do so. If doing so were forbidden by God's law, no marriage would ever survive!

=Cody2
This tells us that women can pray and prophesy and goes on to talk about how they must do that, but we won't get into that because that is a different subject

I think that subject is over due, alot of churches spend more time condemning women instead of saying, there is more to you than in the kitchen. So I look forward to your continuation on that subject.

I agree sister.

=Dreamer
Women should not be over men in the church. However, some women are called to Ministries. Especially ministries to other women, and ministries that touch children.

 

[Dreamer]

Galatians 3:27:27-29 - For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed, heirs according to the promise.

We are to be one in Christ Jesus. We are not to think of each other as male or female, Jew or Greek. In Jesus, we are in unity. He is the Cornerstone. He is our Chief. He is our Redeemer. He does not look upon one of us as higher than another because of our gender or our race.

Ecc. 4:11, 12 - Also, if two lie down together, they can keep warm; but how can one person alone keep warm? And if somebody overpowers one person, two can resist him. A cord of three strands is not easily broken.

That is a perfect example of a Christian marriage. A pastor's wife ministers to her husband and enables him to stay close to the Lord and keep to His calling. It is her calling too, so to speak. She supports him, loves him, prays for him, and builds him up in the Lord as she encourages him. This too is a ministry that a woman can do.

Jesus is that third part of the cord. Without Him we will surely fail.

Now....that scripture is referring to a Christian marriage. And scriptures concerning men being head of the home are also directed toward Christian marriages. I refuse to believe that a Christian woman is required by God to submit to a drunken, woman-beating, cussing husband. To be gentle and loving and quiet, yes, she should be. But to submit to sin, no.

Romans 12:5 - In the same way we who are many are the body in Christ and individually members of one another. According to the grace given to us, we have different gifts: If prophecy, use it according to the standard of faith; if service, in service; if teaching, in teaching; if exhorting, in exhortation; giving, with generosity; leading, with diligence; showing mercy, with cheerfulness.

No distinction between male and female in the above quoted scripture. Imagine if we as women were told, "Oh, no, don't you dare encourage or exhort! You must leave all ministry to the men!"

Imagine if we were told not to use our gift of service. I guess the men would have to do all the cooking at the church banquets then, and they would have to serve the food also, and clean up afterwards. The men would be totally in charge of the nursery too, since service includes caring for babies and toddlers.

Preaching at a pulpit is not the end-all of all ministries. There are other ways and other gifts and God uses both men and women, and teens of all ages.

I, too, am weary of hearing about all the things women are prohibited from doing. Paul was speaking mostly to a group of "rascally" women who were speaking out of turn in church. They were loudmouths and were trying to lord it over their husbands. Truly, that was wrong for those women to do that, and it is still wrong today!!! The Lord never changes.

However, we do not have less "rights" as women. We are different in our roles, but equal in VALUE in the eyes of GOD.

 

[rizen1]

=Dreamer
Imagine if we were told not to use our gift of service. I guess the men would have to do all the cooking at the church banquets then, and they would have to serve the food also, and clean up afterwards. The men would be totally in charge of the nursery too, since service includes caring for babies and toddlers

Good point Dreamer and something I might enjoy seeing. But there might be a problem with that seeing less men attend church.

Where are all the men?
You’re not just imagining it: Christianity is short on men. Here are the facts:


• The typical U.S. Congregation draws an adult crowd that’s 61% female, 39% male. This gender gap shows up in all age categories.

• On any given Sunday there are 13 million more adult women than men in America’s churches.

• This Sunday almost 25 percent of married, churchgoing women will worship without their husbands.

• Midweek activities often draw 70 to 80 percent female participants.

• The majority of church employees are women (except for ordained clergy, who are overwhelmingly male).

• As many as 90 percent of the boys who are being raised in church will abandon it by their 20th birthday. Many of these boys will never return.

• More than 90 percent of American men believe in God, and five out of six call themselves Christians. But only two out of six attend church on a given Sunday. The average man accepts the reality of Jesus Christ, but fails to see any value in going to church.

provide by Church for men.

Also
Newsweek
July 3-10, 2006 issue
Women make up 61 percent of all Americans who attend religious congregations, but they still struggle for their place in some denominations.
.......by Holly Rossi and Lilit Marcus

 

[Cody]

Notice that I only said women can't be over men in church. That doesn't mean women can't go on the streets and witness to people. There is no where in the Bible that restricts women to do so. I agree with all of you, without the women, it would be hard to hold a church up. Women have so many gifts they can use for the church. And again I want to point out that neither sex is superior, it is just that God has given men gifts and women gifts. When men and women use these gifts together, I believe everything will fall into place.

If you have anymore questions please take a look at the links below.

Audio Sermon
So What About those Woman Preachers?

Typed Article
Women Preachers

 

[Abigail]

Is this to infer that no theological post posted by a woman will be taken seriously and will be viewed as a threat to men?

 

[Cody]

Nope it doesn't mean that at all. Go ahead and post, that doesn't have anything to do with women taking authority in church.

 

[hopeforall]

Cody2 can you address Gal 3:37-39 for us?

Cody you said in your post that women (Eve) were the ones deceived. not the men (or Adam). However, we all of sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. No one is righteous, no not one. Men can be deceived as leaders in the church as well. I agree that the senior pastor should be the primary leader; however, women can function in all aspects of the church, because they to have just as much of the Holy Spirit inside of them as Men do

Galatians 3:27:27-29 - For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed, heirs according to the promise.

We are to be one in Christ Jesus. We are not to think of each other as male or female, Jew or Greek. In Jesus, we are in unity. He is the Cornerstone. He is our Chief. He is our Redeemer. He does not look upon one of us as higher than another because of our gender or our race.

Ecc. 4:11, 12 - Also, if two lie down together, they can keep warm; but how can one person alone keep warm? And if somebody overpowers one person, two can resist him. A cord of three strands is not easily broken.

That is a perfect example of a Christian marriage. A pastor's wife ministers to her husband and enables him to stay close to the Lord and keep to His calling. It is her calling too, so to speak. She supports him, loves him, prays for him, and builds him up in the Lord as she encourages him. This too is a ministry that a woman can do.

Jesus is that third part of the cord. Without Him we will surely fail.

Now....that scripture is referring to a Christian marriage. And scriptures concerning men being head of the home are also directed toward Christian marriages. I refuse to believe that a Christian woman is required by God to submit to a drunken, woman-beating, cussing husband. To be gentle and loving and quiet, yes, she should be. But to submit to sin, no.

Romans 12:5 - In the same way we who are many are the body in Christ and individually members of one another. According to the grace given to us, we have different gifts: If prophecy, use it according to the standard of faith; if service, in service; if teaching, in teaching; if exhorting, in exhortation; giving, with generosity; leading, with diligence; showing mercy, with cheerfulness.

No distinction between male and female in the above quoted scripture. Imagine if we as women were told, "Oh, no, don't you dare encourage or exhort! You must leave all ministry to the men!"

Imagine if we were told not to use our gift of service. I guess the men would have to do all the cooking at the church banquets then, and they would have to serve the food also, and clean up afterwards. The men would be totally in charge of the nursery too, since service includes caring for babies and toddlers.

Preaching at a pulpit is not the end-all of all ministries. There are other ways and other gifts and God uses both men and women, and teens of all ages.

I, too, am weary of hearing about all the things women are prohibited from doing. Paul was speaking mostly to a group of "rascally" women who were speaking out of turn in church. They were loudmouths and were trying to lord it over their husbands. Truly, that was wrong for those women to do that, and it is still wrong today!!! The Lord never changes.

However, we do not have less "rights" as women. We are different in our roles, but equal in VALUE in the eyes of GOD.

 

[Cody]

Yes, everyone has fallen short of the glory of God, but tell me what you think God is trying to say in the below verses.

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." KJV

 

[Abigail]

I didn't think it should but I thought I'd check just in case. Thanx

 

[Cody]

I didn't think it should but I thought I'd check just in case. Thanx

You're welcome. God Bless

 

[Dreamer]

Okay, I have a question, Cody. If women can't be preachers, then are they allowed to be a missionary?

'Cause my Aunt Millie was a missionary in Japan for a total of 30 years. She never married, but she made Japan her home and led many people to Christ.

One thing Aunt Millie told me is that every day she baked cookies and had the neighborhood children to her home. She especially had an awesome ministry with children. I don't know how many Japanese children my aunt led to Christ, but God does. And I'm sure that several hundred of them are already at home in Heaven. I know my Aunt Milly is in heaven and I bet she gets to see them every day.

I consider myself a missionary in my own county. So does the Director of Missions in my county. It's called Home Missions, as you know. I have never gone on a missionary trip overseas. But I'm not afraid to share Jesus in my own neighborhood.

I once led a man to Christ that was working the rides at the carnival here in town. Should I have refrained from speaking to him and sharing the gospel because I'm a female and he's a male? After talking with me, he decided he wanted to receive Jesus as his Lord. He prayed and asked Jesus to come in. I asked him if he had a bible, and he said no. I went to Wal-Mart and bought a paperback Men's Devotional Bible. No, I don't remember what version it was, but I know it was the Holy Bible. He accepted the bible gladly; I wrote a note of encouragement in the front and encouraged him to get involved in a church fellowship and with other Christians. Then I had to leave him in God's hands, because I knew I would never see him again. The carnival passes through all the little towns, and it's different people running it every year.

I have led a few women to Christ. That man was the only male, except for my oldest son. Should I have left him alone? Should I have ignored the Holy Spirit beckoning me to go back to the carnival and talk to him? Should I have gotten my husband to do it? (Even though my husband--now my ex-husband--was not in church, drank, and partied)

I think it is ridiculous to imply that women cannot lead men to Christ or cannot teach.

I know many great and anoited Sunday School teachers who happen to be female. And I do not believe God is asking them to quit.

I'm a missionary of God. I'm just one little person. But I am a missionary.
There are missionaries all over the world. And they're not all men, either.

 

[spirit1st]

Very Good teaching.
Now the Truth is? He took nothing from the woman, But? He put the burdern on the MAN!

Now the man Must lead His family in all ways and will be judged the harder!

We are to honor the woman and be a blessing to her. Especially our wifes.

Now to go along with this Great Truth?

The LORD had told me many years ago?

1-if a man takes his family to church
2- read the bible with his family
3-get on his knees and pray with his family

Than the LORD said , HE would take care of Everything else in that mans life!

 

[Cody]

As a missionary did she taking authority over men in church? If not it was alright for her to do that, but I don't believe she can do so in church. Again this thread is about why women can't preach or teach in church, while men are present. Women can lead men to Christ, but the Bible is saying, women don't need to be up in church preaching. Women can teach outside of church and it be alright.

Notice that I only said women can't be over men in church. That doesn't mean women can't go on the streets and witness to people. There is no where in the Bible that restricts women to do so. I agree with all of you, without the women, it would be hard to hold a church up. Women have so many gifts they can use for the church. And again I want to point out that neither sex is superior, it is just that God has given men gifts and women gifts. When men and women use these gifts together, I believe everything will fall into place.

 

[ladylovesJesus]

I was not going to respond to this post as it just keeps getting added to so much but I know of ladies who do indeed preach to men in Church. They have a responsibility to Pastor. There are women now ordained to preach in church buildings too.

Their messages are just as good as a male preacher as they spend time in the Word preparing the message and as dreamer said earlier we are made one in Jesus. Neither male nor female.

God bless

LLJ :rainbow: :rose:

 

[Cody]

WHY DOES BLESSING APPEAR TO BE UPON THE MINISTRIES OF SOME WOMEN WHO PREACH AND TEACH TO MEN?

We believe the correct answer to this question is given by E.W. Rogers in The Church of God: A Symposium:

“People may ask why it is that sometimes blessing seems to attend the evangelistic work of women, even though they do not comply with the scriptural restrictions. We might ask a similar question in the reverse case: Why is it that some serve the Lord consistently with divine principles and see but little if any fruit? Who was it that said, ‘I have laboured in vain and spent my strength for nought’? It was our blessed Lord (Isa. 49:4)! God is not bound by His own restrictive principles that He cannot bless where there is non-compliance, but the servant must remember that ‘If a man strive for the mastery he is not crowned unless he strive lawfully’ (2 Tim. 2:5).”

God often blesses the ministry of His Word in spite of the errors of the minister. But in such cases the minister (whether it be man or woman) will only receive personal reward for the labor in as much as it was done according to the Word of God (1 Cor. 3:6-15).


Information from:
Women Preachers

 

[Newfie]

Hey cody!
I liked what you wrote. I know you put alot of time into this. I never even thought about this subject untill you told be about it. So glad you did, thanks. We have to go by God's word, and if it's in His word, it is real and true. God Bless you my friend. Newfie

 

[Abigail]

My personal views on the topic are that male/female are the shadows/example of the believer/God relationship.
As the bride we are to not teach God about our ways but to sit in silence to His. Our questions should be to Him in prayer. Our submission is completely to Him and to His lead.
I believe that there is no male/female/slave/Jew/gentile in the believer's, Paul said himself that it was according to law/custom that he was refering. I believe the Holy Spirit uses His available means and He isn't restricted, but can be quenched.
I believe God is a God of order and a home is representative of that order, that could include a church home, I don't know. I've never had a woman pastor and I've had a lot of philosophical male pastors that taught nothing biblical.
My understanding is that a woman who is known by the elders to be spiritfilled is to be considered as such and thereby each submitting to each.
But some may prefer this..lol