Be on Guard Against False Teachings

[Gerbolski]

Saved

Rom 10:9-10
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

When we received Christ as our Lord and savior, did we get saved ? Yes we did.

For it says that if you confess him and so on, it will result in someone getting saved.

So if you are a believer you are saved.

1Pe 1:9
(9) Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

There is the initial born again experience to were we get a new heart and spirit and are saved, and then there is the end of your faith, or completion of it, to were your soul becomes perfect, and as men we are 3 parts, body, soul and spirit.

So there is the beginning aspect of salvation, and the end aspect of salvation.

So salvation is both a done deal (we are saved) when we receive Christ but also a progressive thing.

The key is this, we walk with God, and continue in him, if we do not continue in him, we lose it all, but we walk with God with certainty and confidence, otherwise one will wobble around, and go from oh I am saved, oh I AM NOT SAVED, AND ONE WILL BE UNSTABLE IN THEIR FAITH.

 

[YeshuaFan]

May Jesus give us his wisdom

What do you mean by that exactly?

You make the comment that we are "eternally secured in him". Does this mean that you think that you can go out and do all manner of evil, and not worry about your Eternal salvation?

No, means that being sealed by the Holy Spirit and indwelt by him is forever being saved, but I should NEVER take that as a license to sin now as I please, as the new nature in me will be wanting to obey the Lord and to follow Him
Eternal security must NEVER be seen as giving to us now licanse to sin as we please, but should motivate us to love on the Lord, and serve Him out of thanksgiving for what he done for us now

 

[YeshuaFan]

Eternal life

Via the bible, concerning Christians having eternal life, it is written both in present tense, and future tense.

Here is a future tense verse:

Jud 1:20-21
(20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
(21) Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

This was speaking to people who were already believers, and to these believers, it was said to keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

So if you keep yourself in the love of God, which is really to continue in him, one day there will be life eternal in heaven.

But even though that is true, in some fashion do we have eternal life as believers right now ?

Yes.

Here are the present tense verses:


1Jn 5:11-13
(11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
(12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
(13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

According to 1 John here, Christians have eternal life right now, because they have the Son, and this eternal life, is in his Son, and he that hath the Son hath this life, which is eternal life.

It cannot get any clearer than that.

And yes we must continue in grace, in Christ, to continue in this eternal life, and one day have eternal life in heaven.

We as saints having been saved by the Grace of God cannot become lost again, as the Sealing of the Holy Spirit is the promise to we will get home in the end, but our sinning after salvation does block and hinder our fellowship, but never our relationship with God, but can also bring chaistement if not repented of

 

[Gerbolski]

We as saints having been saved by the Grace of God cannot become lost again, as the Sealing of the Holy Spirit is the promise to we will get home in the end, but our sinning after salvation does block and hinder our fellowship, but never our relationship with God, but can also bring chaistement if not repented of

I do not want to get in a big debate on this, but will just quote one scripture:

Rom 8:12-13
(12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

This is talking to the brethren, brethren in Christ, that if ye as being brothers, live after the flesh, ye shall die.

When God says words, he does not say it to just fill in space, and does not just give instructions for no reason, and obviously this is not speaking about physical death, for we all die physically, but rather spiritual death, which the bible says that the wages of sin is death.

Really that is all that is needed to be said, although more can be said.

 

[Gerbolski]

Salvation

Via salvation, there are certain aspects to things.

There is the initial born again experience, to were you get a new heart and spirit, then there is the salvation of our souls, which our souls become perfect after death.

And there is a third part, which is the redemption of our bodies, which happens at the rapture of the church.

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rom 8:23
(23) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

1Co 15:35
(35) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Co 15:42
(42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Co 15:52-53
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[Gerbolski]

The done deal effect

When we come to Christ, are we saved ? Yes, so in the sense of being born again and being in Christ, that is a done deal, for we are saved, but in the sense of being totally perfect, salvation in that sense is not a done deal, and can only become a done deal, at the end of our lives of we continue to the end with Christ (via the soul), and at the rapture, via the body.

But can we lose all of this if we do not continue in Christ, yes.

 

[Bill]

No, means that being sealed by the Holy Spirit and indwelt by him is forever being saved, but I should NEVER take that as a license to sin now as I please, as the new nature in me will be wanting to obey the Lord and to follow Him
Eternal security must NEVER be seen as giving to us now licanse to sin as we please, but should motivate us to love on the Lord, and serve Him out of thanksgiving for what he done for us now

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

Exactly. You said it perfectly when you stated, eternal security must never be seen as giving to us now a license to sin as we please, but should motivate us to love on the Lord and serve him out of Thanksgiving for what he has done for us now

This is the best statement I've seen you wtite since I been reading your posts.

 

[Bill]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

""Eternal security must NEVER be seen as giving to us now licanse to sin as we please, but should motivate us to love on the Lord, and serve Him out of thanksgiving for what he done for us now"" ... YeshuaFan

I wish that many preachers who teach the whole concept that once we are saved, that we can do whatever we want and still be saved. I wish that those preachers would read that statement. I cannot believe how many times I have heard preachers say those words out loud to a congregation, when they say that we are saved. And it doesn't matter what sin we commit we are still saved.

All I have to tell you is go talk to Judas about that. Because originally his name was written in heaven, as Jesus States. And we can all see what happened to him because he decided that since his name was written in heaven he can do whatever he wanted to.

 

[YeshuaFan]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

""Eternal security must NEVER be seen as giving to us now licanse to sin as we please, but should motivate us to love on the Lord, and serve Him out of thanksgiving for what he done for us now"" ... YeshuaFan

I wish that many preachers who teach the whole concept that once we are saved, that we can do whatever we want and still be saved. I wish that those preachers would read that statement. I cannot believe how many times I have heard preachers say those words out loud to a congregation, when they say that we are saved. And it doesn't matter what sin we commit we are still saved.

All I have to tell you is go talk to Judas about that. Because originally his name was written in heaven, as Jesus States. And we can all see what happened to him because he decided that since his name was written in heaven he can do whatever he wanted to.

We need to avoid the 2 extremes positions regarding our eternal life in Christ, one extreme would be "bouncing back and forth" from saved to lost to saved again, based upon just how well we keep obeying the Lord, and the other extreme is to just keep doing as we want to do, refusing to allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify and mature us now in Christ.

 

[Bill]

We need to avoid the 2 extremes positions regarding our eternal life in Christ, one extreme would be "bouncing back and forth" from saved to lost to saved again, based upon just how well we keep obeying the Lord, and the other extreme is to just keep doing as we want to do, refusing to allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify and mature us now in Christ.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

The concept of following God is Not So cut and dry, I mean that we are still human and we do a lot of stupid things. And to think that we can be perfect 100% of the time is almost impossible. Although I'm sure that there are a number of people and I can think of a few of my head, that have really strived in the area of perfection.

I think when we look at what Paul tells us about striving to the end, that the focus is on Jesus and as long as we keep striving in that Focus that we will be good. And I think that's what you're trying to say as well.

 

[YeshuaFan]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

The concept of following God is Not So cut and dry, I mean that we are still human and we do a lot of stupid things. And to think that we can be perfect 100% of the time is almost impossible. Although I'm sure that there are a number of people and I can think of a few of my head, that have really strived in the area of perfection.

I think when we look at what Paul tells us about striving to the end, that the focus is on Jesus and as long as we keep striving in that Focus that we will be good. And I think that's what you're trying to say as well.

Being secured ini Jesus by the sealing of the Holy Spirit allows us to not focus on hw well we are doing, but to keep us motivated to walk with God and lover Him a nd be thankful, as living on a grace basis, not my works basis

 

[Gerbolski]

Well if you want to use the words eternal security, it surely is not unconditional eternal security, for our security is in Christ , not in the flesh, and real faith will lead to obeying the Lord, but never out of merits, or trying to make ourselves more saved by our works, otherwise our faith is not in Christ.

It is loving obedience that God produces in us, as believers, and not a type of obedience to were you are trying to gain something from God.

I like the song, let the redeemed of the Lord say so, let the redeemed of the Lord say so, let the redeemed of the Lord say so, I'm redeemed, I'm redeemed, praise the Lord.

And in this walk of faith, as we take up our cross daily and follow him, which speaks of a life of surrender, it will produce fruit, and of course we have victory over sin, in Christ Jesus.

And faith has to be continuously placed in Christ and him crucified, and never in our works.

This is a confident walk we should walk in.

And it surely is not unconditional security, for there are conditions.

Rom 8:12-13
(12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Well if you want to use the words eternal security, it surely is not unconditional eternal security, for our security is in Christ , not in the flesh, and real faith will lead to obeying the Lord, but never out of merits, or trying to make ourselves more saved by our works, otherwise our faith is not in Christ.

It is loving obedience that God produces in us, as believers, and not a type of obedience to were you are trying to gain something from God.

I like the song, let the redeemed of the Lord say so, let the redeemed of the Lord say so, let the redeemed of the Lord say so, I'm redeemed, I'm redeemed, praise the Lord.

And in this walk of faith, as we take up our cross daily and follow him, which speaks of a life of surrender, it will produce fruit, and of course we have victory over sin, in Christ Jesus.

And faith has to be continuously placed in Christ and him crucified, and never in our works.

This is a confident walk we should walk in.

And it surely is not unconditional security, for there are conditions.

Rom 8:12-13
(12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Think that many do not like the doctrine of eternally secured, as they do see some claiming to be saved and yet still living very badly, but the concept is indeed in the scriptures, as encouragement to all of the redeemed that we indeed are forever now sealed in the beloved, but we must now have the mindset that its acceptable now to keep on sinning and refusing to deal with that issue

 

[Bill]

Being secured ini Jesus by the sealing of the Holy Spirit allows us to not focus on hw well we are doing, but to keep us motivated to walk with God and lover Him a nd be thankful, as living on a grace basis, not my works basis

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I have to see you kind of lose me a little bit on not works. What to you is works in the first place. Because in Hebrews Paul tells us that faith without works is dead.

When I look at the word "works" , I'm not thinking about digging a hole I'm thinking about God using me to do his will. It's us allowing the Holy Spirit to use us for the will of the Father.

Paul talks about faith hope and love and the greatest of these being love.

He tells us that faith without love is nothing. And he tells us that faith without works is dead. So what we have to understand is that faith is an action word, that face is something that you have to do in order to have it. You have to put your faith in Jesus that is doing something with your faith. You have to trust Jesus that is doing something with your faith. If you don't love Jesus or if you don't put your faith in Jesus or if you don't trust Jesus then you're all you're doing with your faith is burying it in the sand. And it becomes worthless

 

[YeshuaFan]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I have to see you kind of lose me a little bit on not works. What to you is works in the first place. Because in Hebrews Paul tells us that faith without works is dead.

When I look at the word "works" , I'm not thinking about digging a hole I'm thinking about God using me to do his will. It's us allowing the Holy Spirit to use us for the will of the Father.

Paul talks about faith hope and love and the greatest of these being love.

He tells us that faith without love is nothing. And he tells us that faith without works is dead. So what we have to understand is that faith is an action word, that face is something that you have to do in order to have it. You have to put your faith in Jesus that is doing something with your faith. You have to trust Jesus that is doing something with your faith. If you don't love Jesus or if you don't put your faith in Jesus or if you don't trust Jesus then you're all you're doing with your faith is burying it in the sand. And it becomes worthless

As John Calvin stated very well regarding this issue
John Calvin taught that justification is by faith alone, but true faith is never alone; it inevitably produces good works as a result (sanctification), not as a cause (justification). Good works are essential signs of a living faith, making believers acceptable to God through Christ's imputed righteousness, but they don't merit salvation; instead, they flow from the union with Christ that faith establishes.

 

[Gerbolski]

Things via faith

Rom 12:1-3
(1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
(2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
(3) For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

So the context here, speaks of our life with God, how we ought to present our bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, and not being conformed tot his world.

Then it mentions to every man that is among you, which spoke of the church, that God had dealt to every man (everyone in the church) the measure of faith.

So all in Christ has "the" (definite article) measure of faith in them, for God gave it to all, so we can live a godly life.

Here is a comment on this, speaking of the measure of faith:

(Jimmy Swaggart)

(...this is given by the Holy Spirit at conversion...)

But not all are at the same place in their growth in faith though, and not all have the same gifts.

In Romans 12, even though it does mention prophecy, which is to be activated by faith, in the one used in that gift, the main gifts it mentions are things like, ministering, teaching, exhorting, giving, etc.

And this faith for living the life is given to us at salvation, which what is the faith we live by as Christians ?

Gal 2:20
(20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And this refers to the fruit of faith, which is also mentioned in Galatians.

Gal 5:22-23
(22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
(23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

In the fruit of the Spirit, there is no sin, but even though the fruit of the Spirit abides within us, does that mean we have attained ?

No absolutely not, and does it mean we have no sin nature ? Absolutely not.

We have to grow in these things in our walk with God, and continuously die to self.

So all believers have the measure of faith, so to live a godly life.

1Co 12:9-11
(9) To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
(10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
(11) But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Concerning this specific gift of faith, it is surrounded by the gifts of healing and the working of miracles, and not all get this gift, but all believers get the measure of faith mentioned in Romans.

Here is a comment on this special gift of faith:

(Jimmy Swaggart)

( special Faith )

 

[Bill]

As John Calvin stated very well regarding this issue
John Calvin taught that justification is by faith alone, but true faith is never alone; it inevitably produces good works as a result (sanctification), not as a cause (justification). Good works are essential signs of a living faith, making believers acceptable to God through Christ's imputed righteousness, but they don't merit salvation; instead, they flow from the union with Christ that faith establishes.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I've never really studied John Calvin. However if his teaching is faith alone. Then he's completely wrong, it's even written in the scripture that way. Paul States it clearly that faith alone is nothing more than a Gong clanging in the Wind.

You can have faith alone. But that faith that you have is worthless. You must have faith and love. It has to be the combination. Because Faith by itself only brings us to Jesus. But it doesn't force you to have Jesus within you. The faith brings you to your knees before Jesus. But now you have to ask for Jesus into your heart. Jesus is not faith. Jesus is Love. It says in the scripture that God is love. Where in the scripture does it say that God is faith? Where does it say in the scripture that Jesus is faith? If neither God the Father nor Jesus are faith themselves, then we need to accept what they are. It says in the scripture where your heart is so shall your treasure be. You must receive Jesus as your lord and savior. Faith does not force you to do that. It's you, us. We are the ones who received Jesus. They are two separate things faith and love. But you have to have them both together not Faith by itself. But you can have Love by itself and still enter Heaven without faith.

You can be of any other religion in the world, you can be an atheist even. People who have no understanding of who Jesus is, and still have love in your heart. The very love of Jesus in their heart you can have that and be saved.

The scripture tells us, it's not knowing who Jesus is that saves you. It's doing the will of the father. You can have all the knowledge in the world about Jesus and still never be saved. Or you can be an atheist who loves other people, and has never really understood God. And yet that atheist could lay down his life for other people. Staying in front of a gunman. Throw himself on a hand grenade. Anyone who does these type of things are already martyrs. They cared more for other people than themselves. People who do these things, they have no full knowledge of Jesus or have never really accepted Jesus as Lord have done it through their own actions. And I guarantee you that they will be in heaven

 

[YeshuaFan]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I've never really studied John Calvin. However if his teaching is faith alone. Then he's completely wrong, it's even written in the scripture that way. Paul States it clearly that faith alone is nothing more than a Gong clanging in the Wind.

You can have faith alone. But that faith that you have is worthless. You must have faith and love. It has to be the combination. Because Faith by itself only brings us to Jesus. But it doesn't force you to have Jesus within you. The faith brings you to your knees before Jesus. But now you have to ask for Jesus into your heart. Jesus is not faith. Jesus is Love. It says in the scripture that God is love. Where in the scripture does it say that God is faith? Where does it say in the scripture that Jesus is faith? If neither God the Father nor Jesus are faith themselves, then we need to accept what they are. It says in the scripture where your heart is so shall your treasure be. You must receive Jesus as your lord and savior. Faith does not force you to do that. It's you, us. We are the ones who received Jesus. They are two separate things faith and love. But you have to have them both together not Faith by itself. But you can have Love by itself and still enter Heaven without faith.

You can be of any other religion in the world, you can be an atheist even. People who have no understanding of who Jesus is, and still have love in your heart. The very love of Jesus in their heart you can have that and be saved.

The scripture tells us, it's not knowing who Jesus is that saves you. It's doing the will of the father. You can have all the knowledge in the world about Jesus and still never be saved. Or you can be an atheist who loves other people, and has never really understood God. And yet that atheist could lay down his life for other people. Staying in front of a gunman. Throw himself on a hand grenade. Anyone who does these type of things are already martyrs. They cared more for other people than themselves. People who do these things, they have no full knowledge of Jesus or have never really accepted Jesus as Lord have done it through their own actions. And I guarantee you that they will be in heaven

His point was that while we are saved and justified by faith alone, trusting in the person and finished work of the lord Jesus, that faith and salvation also would be producing good works as fruit and evidence have now been saved

 

[Gerbolski]

What I will say is that we always need more of Jesus and less of us.

The gospel need not be complicated.

 

[Gerbolski]

Believe ye the word

Rom 10:9-10
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We have to be very careful with the word of God, you can say something as simple as what the word says to be saved, and get falsely accused of saying that you do not believe in taking up your cross daily and following Jesus.

And we have to believe all the word of God.

Eph 2:8-10
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

To come to Christ, we had to get drawn to Christ by his Spirit, and then we were able to make a decision to accept Christ or not, to accept the free gift, not to work towards the free gift, but to accept, receive the free gift.

And we came to him as sinners needing a savior, and God tells us to come to him in repentance, and to acknowledge what he done for us, and receive him as the Lord and savior of our lives.

It is a very simple gospel, and after we have done that in truth, we are indeed saved, have been born again, and now he empowers us to live a godly life, he did not empower us beforehand, he empowers us after we have received the free gift, and then we can by the power of the Holy Ghost take up our cross daily and follow him.

Rom 6:6-8
(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

It says that our old man is crucified with Christ, we either believe it or not.

That is what Christ did for us, the sin nature was nailed to the cross, the old man was nailed to the cross, and it says that we died with Christ.

It is not that our old man is being crucified with Christ, but that the old man is crucified with Christ, Jesus did not do a half done deal concerning defeating the power of sin.

But even though that is so, and the sin nature has been put out of commission, that does not mean that the sin nature is not there, because the old man can come back to the surface, and as the bible says none of us have attained in our walk with God, and that we die daily.

Eph 4:22-23
(22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
(23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And every now and again, even though Christ defeated the power of sin on the cross, we still have to put off the old man now and again, which shows that we still sin, we no longer practice sin, but because we are not perfect and are being perfected, we still fall into sin now and again.


If the word says we are sanctified (set apart), and are being sanctified, we do not get to decide and change the words to fit our doctrine, if the word mentions both, then it is both.

We really do have victory in the name of Jesus over sin, and we are daily learning how to walk by faith, in our walk with God, and we are continuously growing in grace and faith, it is a life long process.