Grace is a free gift, but faith and works is still needed for Salvation

[BroTan]

Most people do not understand what grace is. All they will say is that I am under grace. Some will say grace is a free gift and that’s true. But, what is this free gift. The free gift (grace) is Jesus came and died for our sins and by coming under his blood; we have access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam by sinning took away in the garden of Eden. With out the Tree of life (Jesus) man was condemned to death, even the second death (the lake of fire). Jesus told us in the scripture, (Psalms: 69: 4) They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, beingmine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away…which is your grace (our access to Jesus). Our fore parents, Adam and Eve chose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Satan), by listening to Satan, instead of God, he cost us are access to The Tree of Life. Paul said this in Roman 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. Adam and Eve were put forth from the Garden of Eden and from the Tree of Life. Grace is no more than a free gift retained by keeping God’s Law. Lets go into (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Paul says in Hebrew 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

This is why Jesus said "And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

Paul said in Romans 5:14-19 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[BroTan]

Before Jesus the Israelites and the strangers were sacrificing bull and goats for sin, because it was law. This was another law that was added because of sin. Paul says in Galatians 3: 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

So Paul was explaining that now Christ is here and died on the cross, we no longer need this animal sacrificial law for sin.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. So we have to be baptize in the name of Jesus for our past sins, and then now we can start putting on Christ and keeping the Commandments of God.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus and keeping the Commandments we become Saints. Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). If we are Saint then we will come back with Jesus in the first resurrection and not the second resurrection.

Grace connects to Adam sin and end with Jesus. Another words without grace, Moses would of went into the lake of fire and all the prophets. Didn't matter how good or bad you where, every body created goes into the lake of fire, because sin is here, sin is on the table. This is how serious this is, brother and sisters. Thank God for Jesus

 

[KingJ]

Grace is a free gift, but faith and works is still needed for Salvation​

Grace is a free gift available to whomsoever repents of their sins John 3:16, Luke 5:32, Psalm 51:17.

Saving faith is not something you can muster up. According to scripture it is impossible for us to call Jesus Lord per Rom 10:9 unless it is gifted by God Matt 16:16-17 / the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3.

Salvation, it depends on how you define it. Salvation can be Abrahams bosom, a paradise in hell (saved from fire) or it can be reunification with God (saved from a life separate from God). The first is from our repentance, the second is a gift we had nothing to do with, no amount of works can obtain it.
-------------

Preaching a works based salvation assumes God is dumb and it leads to Him being misrepresented as unjust and partial.

Dumb = He can make the mistake of grafting a devil into His family. He cannot truly judge our hearts and minds as Jer 17:9-11 says He can and does.

Unjust and partial = The criminal next to Jesus on the cross only needed to repent of his sins before receiving eternal bliss. Yet according to your doctrine, someone who does this and more can find themselves in eternal damnation.

 

[MedicBravo]

If God has changed you, then you do NOT want to be the Old you.
Your life MUST change in order for there to be true repentance.

If there is little to no change or one reverts back, he/she hasn't truly accepted God.

 

[Bill]

Most people do not understand what grace is. All they will say is that I am under grace. Some will say grace is a free gift and that’s true. But, what is this free gift. The free gift (grace) is Jesus came and died for our sins and by coming under his blood; we have access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam by sinning took away in the garden of Eden. With out the Tree of life (Jesus) man was condemned to death, even the second death (the lake of fire). Jesus told us in the scripture, (Psalms: 69: 4) They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, beingmine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away…which is your grace (our access to Jesus). Our fore parents, Adam and Eve chose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Satan), by listening to Satan, instead of God, he cost us are access to The Tree of Life. Paul said this in Roman 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. Adam and Eve were put forth from the Garden of Eden and from the Tree of Life. Grace is no more than a free gift retained by keeping God’s Law. Lets go into (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Paul says in Hebrew 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

This is why Jesus said "And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

Paul said in Romans 5:14-19 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That was really well written

 

[BroTan]

Grace is a free gift available to whomsoever repents of their sins John 3:16, Luke 5:32, Psalm 51:17.

Saving faith is not something you can muster up. According to scripture it is impossible for us to call Jesus Lord per Rom 10:9 unless it is gifted by God Matt 16:16-17 / the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3.

Salvation, it depends on how you define it. Salvation can be Abrahams bosom, a paradise in hell (saved from fire) or it can be reunification with God (saved from a life separate from God). The first is from our repentance, the second is a gift we had nothing to do with, no amount of works can obtain it.
-------------

Preaching a works based salvation assumes God is dumb and it leads to Him being misrepresented as unjust and partial.

Dumb = He can make the mistake of grafting a devil into His family. He cannot truly judge our hearts and minds as Jer 17:9-11 says He can and does.

Unjust and partial = The criminal next to Jesus on the cross only needed to repent of his sins before receiving eternal bliss. Yet according to your doctrine, someone who does this and more can find themselves in eternal damnation.

So you must have miss the first part I wrote when Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Paul says in Hebrew 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).
I agree the thief on the cross repented and the Lord forgave him, but let's check out a situation that's kind of similar in Revelation 6: 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So in this situation the Jesus is making his second coming and these people could've of repeated at this point. But they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. Grace is all ready on the table, but they choose death and to live a life of iniquity.

 

[KingJ]

So you must have miss the first part I wrote when Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Paul says in Hebrew 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).
I agree the thief on the cross repented and the Lord forgave him, but let's check out a situation that's kind of similar in Revelation 6: 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So in this situation the Jesus is making his second coming and these people could've of repeated at this point. But they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. Grace is all ready on the table, but they choose death and to live a life of iniquity.

This post is the exact reason I try avoid discussion with the non-OSAS crowd. I got exited to read you state 'criminal next to Jesus' only to sigh as I saw you dance around the point made.

You are being incredibly intellectually dishonest. Refusing to concede to the fact that your interpretation of scripture misrepresents God.

It is truly beyond me that any Christian not be able to grasp Jer 17:9-10 and the fact that God is not a fool.

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An idiot will allow anyone into their country without proper vetting. An idiot will send their kid to a school not caring who the teacher is. An idiot will think they are a good person even though they are hurting others.

Yes, let's all teach that God is idiotic and washes in the precious blood of Jesus.... anyone who has.... A. Magical, unicorn type faith or B. Says magical words or who C. Steps foot inside church for a while or D. Who tastes of the Holy Spirit.

Lets all be idiotic and teach that anyone who does A, B, C or D is truly a saved Christian. Brethren. And that if they die, they will be guaranteed heaven. Unless of course a day before they die they decide to....commit a couple sins. Then they will no longer be brethren. We want nothing to do with them for all eternity in heaven. Judas was a fine and shining example of a Christian / fit to be my neighbour in heaven, until he betrayed Jesus, then he was no longer fit for heaven.

With your doctrine you would teach that Judas was enroute to heaven before he betrayed Jesus. Imagine that. God would be like a school principal that allows a paedophile in as a teacher as they have not yet committed an actual crime.

We don't even need to get to the injustice and partiality that non-OSAS implies. It fails so hard just considering the implication of God being unable to properly vet someone.

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Non-Osas teachers love to state that "Paul was non-OSAS'.

You guys cherry pick Paul's passages. Paul's message was that we can be idiots. Not God.

 

[BroTan]

This post is the exact reason I try avoid discussion with the non-OSAS crowd. I got exited to read you state 'criminal next to Jesus' only to sigh as I saw you dance around the point made.

You are being incredibly intellectually dishonest. Refusing to concede to the fact that your interpretation of scripture misrepresents God.

It is truly beyond me that any Christian not be able to grasp Jer 17:9-10 and the fact that God is not a fool.

-------------------------------------------------

An idiot will allow anyone into their country without proper vetting. An idiot will send their kid to a school not caring who the teacher is. An idiot will think they are a good person even though they are hurting others.

Yes, let's all teach that God is idiotic and washes in the precious blood of Jesus.... anyone who has.... A. Magical, unicorn type faith or B. Says magical words or who C. Steps foot inside church for a while or D. Who tastes of the Holy Spirit.

Lets all be idiotic and teach that anyone who does A, B, C or D is truly a saved Christian. Brethren. And that if they die, they will be guaranteed heaven. Unless of course a day before they die they decide to....commit a couple sins. Then they will no longer be brethren. We want nothing to do with them for all eternity in heaven. Judas was a fine and shining example of a Christian / fit to be my neighbour in heaven, until he betrayed Jesus, then he was no longer fit for heaven.

With your doctrine you would teach that Judas was enroute to heaven before he betrayed Jesus. Imagine that. God would be like a school principal that allows a paedophile in as a teacher as they have not yet committed an actual crime.

We don't even need to get to the injustice and partiality that non-OSAS implies. It fails so hard just considering the implication of God being unable to properly vet someone.

--------------------------------------------------

Non-Osas teachers love to state that "Paul was non-OSAS'.

You guys cherry pick Paul's passages. Paul's message was that we can be idiots. Not God.

Are we to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure? Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man.

Paul said in (1 Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means.

 

[KingJ]

Are we to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure?

I take it you skimmed my post.

Accepting Jesus does not by default result in you receiving Jesus. Is this not a duh fact? Unless of course you believe that God is a mental case that has no ability to judge the heart and mind as Jer 17:9-10 says.

Is that your belief? God is a mental case that cannot vet someone?

Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him.

Well, that line flows from believing God is a mental case that washes clean in His blood any person that says magical words. You are construing theories off of a false premise.

Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This verse has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. Quoting any OT verse or verse from Jesus shows you do not know what a Christian is.

A Christian is someone who has passed God's judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-10. Passed the criteria for salvation. Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

There are parallels we can draw to the OT. Something like the life of David for example. Would you say he endured to the end? Well if you are looking at works, the answer would be a resounding no. He committed two mortal sins at the end. So clearly from a 'works' perspective he did not ''endure'' to the end. But we see in Psalm 51:17 that he had remorse, regret and repented. Therefore we see that repentance is part and parcel of 'endurance' to the end. A Christian is someone who has a changed heart. A new creation 2 Cor 5:17. Someone who has already truly repented and passed God's judgement of heart and mind. Making any pre cross verse on the topic a cart before horse situation.

You are still stuck in the OT.

that is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man.

Well you are blurring lines here. There are heresies in both OSAS and non OSAS and then there are acceptable middle grounds.

Heresy - Non OSAS = You save yourself by your works. Being born again is meaningless. God is a fool that can't judge the heart. You must lock yourself up in a room, never witness to prostitutes and take many flights with airlines that don't properly build planes as the sooner you die the better your odds of heaven.

Heresy - OSAS = Calvinism.

Middle ground. We are not God that can judge the heart. As such, let's not play God. Let's listen to Paul in 1 Cor 10:12 and continue to work out our salvation in fear and trembling Phil 2:12. Lest we think we are saved and not be saved.

You need to understand that a non-OSAS belief incriminates God as a unjust and a fool. Two facts that non-OSAS believers display ostrich syndrome on.

Paul said in (1 Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means.

Like I said to you, you are formulating a belief off of cherry picked scripture. The context of 1 Cor 15:1-2 is the same as Phil 2:12. Continue judging yourself to be in Christ / saved as you are not God that can judge the depths of your heart and mind.

There are quite a few passages from Paul that clearly point to OSAS.

The one I use most often is where Paul calls brethren who continue in sin (especially mortal sin 1 Cor 5:1), brethren so called (1 Cor 5:11)

 

[KingJ]

Are we to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure? Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man.

Paul said in (1 Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means.

Thread 'Paul taught OSAS'

Sep 19, 2025

OSAS = Once saved always saved.

It seems that there are many who like to cherry pick passages from Paul to push a works based salvation. Non-OSAS. ''Salvation is dependant on your endurance''.

This is cart before horse teaching. Salvation is a gift. Gifted to those who pass God's judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-10. Endurance, not continuing in sin unrepentant and constantly judging yourself are signs and evidence of being truly saved.

A works based salvation makes a mockery of the cross and can incriminate God as unjust and partial. It implies that He is unable to properly...

• KingJ
• Replies: 87
• Forum: Bible Study

 

[BroTan]

Thread 'Paul taught OSAS'

Sep 19, 2025

OSAS = Once saved always saved.

It seems that there are many who like to cherry pick passages from Paul to push a works based salvation. Non-OSAS. ''Salvation is dependant on your endurance''.

This is cart before horse teaching. Salvation is a gift. Gifted to those who pass God's judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-10. Endurance, not continuing in sin unrepentant and constantly judging yourself are signs and evidence of being truly saved.

A works based salvation makes a mockery of the cross and can incriminate God as unjust and partial. It implies that He is unable to properly...

• KingJ
• Replies: 87
• Forum: Bible Study

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

 

[KingJ]

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

You are not even trying to grasp what I am trying to tell you. You just keep prodding along down your OT path.

You have the cart before the horse.

With your sick theology a helper that took a bullet for you would not be welcome to stay in your house unless they kept speaking to you nicely and washing dishes. If they don't keep washing the dishes you will throw them into fire for all eternity.

With your theology a child who does not work for a bike, will not only not receive the bike, they will not ever be welcomed back into your home, but will also be thrown into an eternal fire.

You terribly misrepresent God.

 

[B-A-C]

If God has changed you, then you do NOT want to be the Old you.
Your life MUST change in order for there to be true repentance.

Luke 13:6 And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7 "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8 "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9 and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

Some of the masers trees, in the masters garden, refuse to change.. refuse to bear fruit... even with the master (Jesus) watering and fertilizing them.

 

[Gothedral]

Context: I think it gets weird to see Christians on the same page concerning the terrible state of the sinner (all of us besides Enoch and his citizens, and Job, and Saint Mary) right up until their ghost faces their Holy Creator's judgment.

Proverbs 27:20 "Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied."

Saint Matthew chapter 7:20
"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock...

 

[BroTan]

You are not even trying to grasp what I am trying to tell you. You just keep prodding along down your OT path.

You have the cart before the horse.

With your sick theology a helper that took a bullet for you would not be welcome to stay in your house unless they kept speaking to you nicely and washing dishes. If they don't keep washing the dishes you will throw them into fire for all eternity.

With your theology a child who does not work for a bike, will not only not receive the bike, they will not ever be welcomed back into your home, but will also be thrown into an eternal fire.

You terribly misrepresent God.

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

 

[KingJ]

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

Brotan, I have accused your belief of misrepresenting God as 1. A fool , 2. Unjust and 3. Partial in post 3. You need to deal directly with those accusations and pause prodding along with your biased reading of scriptures.

Quoting scripture out of context is not an achievement. We see in Matt 4 that the devil can also do that.

We know that God is good Psalm 136:1, righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17 and that it should be UNTHINKABLE that God do what is evil and pervert justice Job 34:12. These are facts that your doctrine does not align with.

 

[BroTan]

Brotan, I have accused your belief of misrepresenting God as 1. A fool , 2. Unjust and 3. Partial in post 3. You need to deal directly with those accusations and pause prodding along with your biased reading of scriptures.

Quoting scripture out of context is not an achievement. We see in Matt 4 that the devil can also do that.

We know that God is good Psalm 136:1, righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17 and that it should be UNTHINKABLE that God do what is evil and pervert justice Job 34:12. These are facts that your doctrine does not align with.

Surely most Christian loves God the Father Almighty! Surely most Christians love their Savior, Jesus Christ! But does every Christian wants to live by what Jesus says in (Luke:4:4) And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The reference point for Christians is the Bible, the revelation of God to mankind and source book for God's commands to us, known as the divine Law. God's laws are holy and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Romans:7:12). They are the instructions for the way we should conduct our lives. Yet throughout history we see people trying to side-step the laws of God. Even today many Christian churches do not place as much emphasis on observing God's law as they do on ‘love’. But the fact is, we need both!
The apostle John, (1John: 4:20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? As we can see, God condemns those who claim to love Him while they hate their brothers. Again in, (1John:3:14) it states We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. We need to seriously take this to heart especially in these days when we see communities dividing into factions.

Concerning the observance of the Law we find the following, (1John: 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. How can anyone claim to know God yet teach that it is not necessary to obey His laws?

Heart Religion

Many fail to understand that the `New Covenant' includes a better way to implement the same set of laws that were given on Mt. Sinai, the Ten Commandments:

(Jer.31:31-33) (v.31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

(v.32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

(v.33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Notice that the law was not prophesied to be done away, but rather to be “put into our hearts and minds.”
In, (Is. 42:21) we find another prophecy concerning Christ and the law. It reads, (v.21) The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he (Jesus) will magnify the law, and make it honourable. When you magnify something you enlarge it and bring it out more of its detail and richness. Jesus revealed the fulfillment of this prophecy when he explained, (Mat.5:27-28) (v.27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (v.28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart

By magnifying the law and making it honorable, the spiritual intent of the law is now emphasized which goes far beyond the mere the physical intent. God has raised His standards, not lowered them! All God ever wanted was what was best for us! He designed us to be His children. We are happiest when we love and obey Him. He is a God who is totally righteous and holy. God cannot sin. And He wants us to follow in His footsteps. The person that says, (1 John:2:6) “that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”

 

[Bill]

You are not even trying to grasp what I am trying to tell you. You just keep prodding along down your OT path.

You have the cart before the horse.

With your sick theology a helper that took a bullet for you would not be welcome to stay in your house unless they kept speaking to you nicely and washing dishes. If they don't keep washing the dishes you will throw them into fire for all eternity.

With your theology a child who does not work for a bike, will not only not receive the bike, they will not ever be welcomed back into your home, but will also be thrown into an eternal fire.

You terribly misrepresent God.

I cannot see how brother Dan is doing any thing wrong in his writings. He quotes scripture left and right but you can't even see that, it seems. How about sharing the scripture that tells us that we shouldn't follow what brother Dan is telling us. Where does it say in Scripture that we should not do God's work with our faith?

 

[KingJ]

I cannot see how brother Dan is doing any thing wrong in his writings. He quotes scripture left and right but you can't even see that, it seems. How about sharing the scripture that tells us that we shouldn't follow what brother Dan is telling us. Where does it say in Scripture that we should not do God's work with our faith?

Bill, non-OSAS misrepresents God as it incriminates Him as unjust and partial. Not as badly as Calvinism, but still to a large enough degree to make it heretical.

Catholics believe in a purgatory. Because of that non-OSAS does not incriminate God. Non-OSAS only works if you also belief in Purgatory.

God is just Job 34:12 and God is impartial Rom 2:11. These are facts that any theology we push needs to align with.

There are just too many 'Christians' that do not care how they represent God.

See my accusations of this belief in post # 5 here:

Post in thread 'Paul taught OSAS'

Oct 3, 2025

Judas Iscariot


Luk 9:1-2
(1) Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
(2) And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

Jesus never gave power and authority over devils to unbelievers, for you will not find that in the word of God, and Judas Iscariot was among these 12 who were used of God and given power over devils.

But at some point the devil entered into him:

Joh 13:26-27
(26) Jesus answered, He it is, to...

• Gerbolski

• 

 

[BroTan]

Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.

Don’t allow yourself to be deceived into believing that once you believe in the Lord that your work is finished, it has just started.


Jesus says in (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. You mean you must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils, even. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity (Sin) overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, and that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!