WHO IS THE RESTRAINER ?

[Gerbolski]

Other verses to think upon

Rev 11:3
(3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 11:7-9
(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(9) And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

These verses speak of that after the 2 witnesses have finished their testimony which will be for 1260 days, they shall be killed by this beast which makes war against them, which is the Antichrist.

These 1260 days point to 3 1/2 years, but the years being 360 day years, and not 365 days as the Roman calendar

At the mid point of tribulation, there will be a rage that rises in the Antichrist, and people shall be put to death, and this is pretty much the same time to when he marches in the temple, and proclaims himself as god, and starts his persecution.

Rev 13:3-5
(3) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
(4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
(5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Many things happen at or near the mid point of the tribulation period, there is the killing of the 2 witnesses, which they eventually rise from the dead, and it seems near to that time one of the beast's heads (plural), is wounded to death, but notice it does not say which head, and then gets healed, and then there is the Dragon giving the Antichrist his power.

And also the sacrifices will cease, and the image of the beast set up.

So I will let yous ponder on these thoughts.

 

[KingJ]

The Restrainer is the Holy Spirit. This is a duh fact.

Nobody can restrain the anti christ except God / Holy Spirit / Jesus.

Matt 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

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@B-A-C You stated in the rapture thread ''How can the Holy Spirit leave if there will be Christians in the tribulation''.

There won't be Christians in the tribulation. You are simply moving the goal posts on definitions. In your mind, what exactly is a Christian?

The word Christian is mentioned three times in scripture. 1. Acts 11:26, 2. Acts 26:28, 3. 1 Pet 4:16. Nowhere in Matt 24 or in Revelations.

As I explained before in my Rapture thread. There are different dispensations. It is true that people in the tribulation will find God and be a part of the 'church of God or the church of Christ and be called saints'. But they will not be Christians. A Christian is someone who is saved per Rom 10:9.

Rom 10:9 if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

In the tribulation you will be saved if you A. Reject the mark of the beast Rev 20:4 and / or B. Endure ten days of torment and highly likely martyrdom Rev 2:10. Rom 10:9 will not work!

Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand year.

Rev 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Today, Rom 10:9 applies, in the tribulation it will not apply. There is no such thing as 'person A' arriving in heaven stating "''Lord I did deny you and took the mark of the beast, but I repented and believed that Jesus is Lord''.

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As I have said many times now, many Christians do simply just not know what a Christian is. Most think it is a good person that does good things. And has some belief in Jesus and a fairly regular church attendance. Until you grasp what a Christian is, you will not agree with OSAS or a pre-trib rapture.

 

[Gerbolski]

The Restrainer is the Holy Spirit. This is a duh fact.

Nobody can restrain the anti christ except God / Holy Spirit / Jesus.

Matt 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Well in the case of the antichrist being restrained via Thessalonians, he is being hindered from being revealed in who he is, and not in driving out demons, or in hindering demons from coming forth, we have to stop changing the words.

 

[Gerbolski]

B-A-C said: ...It would seem this act of taking his seat in the temple... is exactly the act that reveals who he is….

This is something brother B-A-C said in one of his posts, on page 1 of this thread.

And this event is actually mentioned in our passages:

2Th 2:3-4
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This event is key, to understanding the "he" who now letteth.

Do most people agree here, that this event that takes place, of when the Antichrist marches in the temple and proclaims himself to be God, which afterwards he starts his persecution, is the time when the Antichrist is revealed in who he is ?

 

[Gerbolski]

Process of elimination

1.Church view: it is said that the church is the one that hindereth, or holds back the revealing of the Antichrist, and yes the church gets taken out of the way, which is from the earth, and the "church" is not known as an "he", but rather as a "she", it would be very confusing to use one that is generally known as a "she" so to refer to as an "he", and God is not the author of confusion.
And concerning this church view, the church gets raptured, but it is only about 3 1/2 years down the road that the Antichrist gets revealed in who he is.
And really how does the church holdback the Antichrist's revealing ? It is a mystery, so it is very unlikely that the church is the one that hinders his revealing, too much confusion in making it fit.
Why would the church being raptured in and of itself, hinder the revealing of the Antichrist, for once the church gets raptured, the antichrist is still not revealed in who he is, only 3 1/2 years later ?
And there is not a verse that you can use that clearly fits with a verse in Thessalonians.
It has to be crystal clear, something in there should fit, if it is the right view, there should be no confusion or contradiction or else it is false.

2.Holy Spirit view: now yes the Holy Spirit is definitely an "he", but in order for people's eyes to be open, in seeing who the Antichrist is, you actually need the Holy Spirit, and in the tribulation period, people will be getting saved which requires the Holy Spirit, which I will prove at another time.

So if the Holy Spirit opens people's eyes to seeing who the Antichrist is, then obviously he is not the one who hinders the revealing of the Antichrist.

3.Roman empire turns ecclesiastical view: now this view was the popular view possibly near the 1500's to maybe the 1800's, give or take (could have been earlier). Now within this view, they say that the Roman empire had to be taken out of the way, which it did fall, and Roman Catholicism took it's place, and from Roman Catholicism there is the popish office, which they say the popish office is the antichrist, but according to the bible, it calls the Antichrist, the man (singular) of sin, there have been many men in the popish office, but concerning the Antichrist, he is just one man.
And concerning the man of sin, he has to be revealed in his time, when he is on the scene, and ready to be revealed, and not before hand, and him marching in a future temple event, has not yet taken place.
So this view is easily debunked.

Now in saying these things, there may be other views out there, which there are, and for thought sake, I added some unlikely views, like it being Elijah, which yes the 2 witnesses do get taken out of the way, in the tribulation period, for after their death, they get raised from the dead and rise up to heaven, in fact here is the actual verse:

Rev 11:12
(12) And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

So even they experience some type of rapture, and I believe the 2 witnesses are Enoch and Elijah.
But they obviously do not fit with the "He" who now letteth, for they are 2, the "he" who now letteth, is one.

And they seem to get martyred after the Antichrist starts his tirade.

 

[Gerbolski]

The 3 views

Concerning the 3 views, one of the things I find intriguing is this.

The 2 popular views of today, interpret the "he" who now letteth, with ones that are positive, that is the church and the Holy Spirit.

But the popular view, via possibly the 1500's to the 1800's, interpreted the "he" who now letteth, with something negative, which was the fall of an idol worshipping empire, Rome.

Is the real interpretation of the "he" who now letteth refer to a positive one, or negative one ?

 

[Gerbolski]

Taken out

2Th 2:7
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Notice what it says, it says of the "he" that he will be taken out of the way, it does not say from were he gets taken out, does not specify a place, but just that he will be taken out of the way, so that he is no longer in the way, of this hinderance.

 

[Gerbolski]

Church view debunked

Ok if the church view of "he" who gets taken out of the way, is correct, and that it is the church that hinders the revealing of the Antichrist, then we must ask a few questions.

First of all, yes the church gets raptured, and we are kept form the hour of temptation that shall come upon the whole world.

So the church gets caught up, but once the church is gone, we see evidence of people getting saved during the tribulation period.

And if you read things via the time of the 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 vials, the word church itself does not appear, and I believe that God did on purpose to leave out that word, so to show forth that the pretrib church is gone.

Now in saying that, that does not mean that the ones who get saved in the tribulation period (which are known as the tribulation saints) will not become part of the church, but they shall be I guess you can say, the tribulation church.

So if the church is the one that hinders the revealing of the Antichrist, then why isn't the tribulation church hindering the revealing of the Antichrist ?

Because the tribulation church will have Jesus and the Holy Spirit as much as the pretrib church ?

Hmmmm.

 

[KingJ]

Well in the case of the antichrist being restrained via Thessalonians, he is being hindered from being revealed in who he is, and not in driving out demons, or in hindering demons from coming forth, we have to stop changing the words.

The anti christ operates with the power of satan and satan is a demon.

Although, there is debate on whether or not the anti christ will in fact be a demon possessing the body of a homosexual Jew. But perhaps a chat for another thread.

 

[Gerbolski]

The anti christ operates with the power of satan and satan is a demon.

Although, there is debate on whether or not the anti christ will in fact be a demon possessing the body of a homosexual Jew. But perhaps a chat for another thread.

I agree that the Antichrist will operate with the power of Satan, but the Antichrist is still a man, that is a man of sin, and Satan is Satan.

And we as Christians get empowered to live a godly life through the Holy Ghost, but the Holy Ghost is the Holy Ghost , and Christians are Christians.

 

[B-A-C]

There won't be Christians in the tribulation. You are simply moving the goal posts on definitions. In your mind, what exactly is a Christian?

Really?

Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

 

[B-A-C]

but the Antichrist is still a man, that is a man of sin, and Satan is Satan.

It seems people don't know the rules of English anymore.

2Thes 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Thes 2:9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Thes 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

The beast cannot be Satan himself.. first, no where in the Bible does it say Satan is a demon. It does say he was an angel.
But notice the man of lawlessness will be slain (by the breath of Jesus's mouth) and will be brought "to an end" when Jesus appears.
Satan on the other hand will be imprisoned in a pit for 1,000 years after Jesus appears, and will even be released "for a season" sometime after this. So there is no way the beast could be Satan himself.

Also in verse 9 above.. it says "in accordance with". With means "with"... if I am "with" someone... I am not that same someone.
Working "with" Satan infers that you are not Satan.

This is the same work used in John 1. And the Word was God, and the Word was "with" God. The Father is not the Son.
The beast is not Satan...

 

[Curtis]

• Believers today have authority to "trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy" in the name of Jesus, according to Luke 10:19. This authority comes from Jesus and is wielded through the power of the Holy Spirit.
• Tribulation Saints during the Great Tribulation, the Antichrist is granted power to conquer the saints and make war against them. This means the saints of this period endure intense persecution and martyrdom rather than exercising authority over the forces of darkness.

Rev 13:7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Gerbolski]

• Believers today have authority to "trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy" in the name of Jesus, according to Luke 10:19. This authority comes from Jesus and is wielded through the power of the Holy Spirit.
• Tribulation Saints during the Great Tribulation, the Antichrist is granted power to conquer the saints and make war against them. This means the saints of this period endure intense persecution and martyrdom rather than exercising authority over the forces of darkness.

Rev 13:7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The truth is Christians today still go through persecutions and get martyred.

And even in that time they will still have the power of the Holy Spirit, even though they get persecuted and martyred, just like people get persecuted and martyred today.

 

[Curtis]

The truth is Christians today still go through persecutions and get martyred.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

Psa 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all.

Does the New Testament Church have authority over powers of darkness or no?

 

[B-A-C]

Does the New Testament Church have authority over powers of darkness or no?

They do now... will they always?

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

Dan 7:20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates.
Dan 7:21 "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them

Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Curtis]

They do now... will they always?

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

Dan 7:20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates.
Dan 7:21 "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them

Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

This is why the "restrainer" is the Church now, not later.

 

[Gothedral]

Christ died and lives for us, and we will die and live with Christ. #BeNot Afraid

I type this knowing that I worry about people suffering on the Way to Heaven. I don't want any more pain on anyone, but here we are in 2025 being persecuted with torture and murder like ancient Israel of Our Lord and Savior Jesus.
Warn your neighbors to choose Jesus Christ. ️

 

[Gerbolski]

1Jn 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

Psa 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all.

Does the New Testament Church have authority over powers of darkness or no?

Yes we do have authority over powers of darkness, we can cast out demons in his name, set people free from bondages and so forth, but that power over darkness does not make us free from being persecuted or martyred, for if that was the case, then what about the 12 disciples ?

And when I say the 12 disciples, I am meaning the 12, to were Judas Iscariot was replaced by Matthias.

All 12 of them, except for the apostle John were martyred for their faith.

Will the Antichrist overcome many of the tribulation saints and kill them, yes, but also will there be some that will evade from being killed by the Antichrist? Yes, the renmnant of Jews, which is called a woman, that flee and get protected by God for the last 3 1/2 years, mentioned in Revelation chapter 12.

So having authority over powers of darkness does no equal freedom from persecution or martyrdom.

 

[Gerbolski]

Some get martyred today, others do not, some will get martyred in the tribulation period, others will not.

When I say these things, I speak of believers.