The Tribulation Isn’t What You Think — and Jesus Never Taught a Rapture Escape Plan

[Jesua888]

I would stay away from study notes, just read Gods word and let the Holy spirit lead you, far to many read study notes, and do not read the bible. God will reveal to you what he wants you to know. I have about 4 Bibles and study notes in some give several view points but mainly I read Gods word, Most people listen to sermons and podcast or read devotionals and think that is the same thing as reading Gods word, I do not believe it is.

The Amplified Study Bible is a full bible like most others, and has notes at the bottom of each page (which I seldom read ... perhaps I should too, as I am on this forum and getting different views from different people : )

 

[Leumas]

The Amplified Study Bible is a full bible like most others, and has notes at the bottom of each page (which I seldom read ... perhaps I should too, as I am on this forum and getting different views from different people : )

Why do you need a Bible?

 

[Jesua888]

Why do you need a Bible?

I use it to check for authenticity of videos, sermons and quotes ... also should anything happen to internet, I want my hard copy : )

 

[Garee]

Why do you need a Bible?

Why did you need to ask that?

What do you need to discuss the "let there be" things of Christ's powerful faith the invisible things of God?

God calls those who have no need for the Bible fools .The pagan foundation "out of sight out of mind" .They say I don't see God why they should believe??

 

[Curtis]

The whole “pre-trib rapture” thing? Invented in the 1800s. Not Bible. Not Jesus. Not apostolic.

Ephraim, also spelled Ephraem and Ephrem, was known as Ephraim the Syrian or Ephraim of Nisibis to distinguish him from other Ephraims. He was a prominent Christian author in the fourth century (born in 306, died in 373). He was widely respected by his peers and is the most important and prolific of the Syrian fathers of his time. His works were so popular that many were translated into Greek from his native Syriac

This early Christian author lived in the fourth century, which means to us today that is….1,625 years ago. what did he say?
For those who are wondering that is 1,400 years before the 1800.

Behold, the kingdom of heaven is at the doors [ready] to flash forth, but we don’t want to hear about these things — not ever. The signs and wonders, which the Lord said had to happen, the famines, the earthquakes, the terrors, and the nations in upheaval. These all seem to us like a dream to be told to others. The report of these things does not disturb us, nor the spectacle itself. For the elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation, so they shall not see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon the unrighteous world. The season for harvest has now drawn nigh, and the end of the age holds forth. Angels holding scythes are waiting for the nod. Let us fear, brethren, for it is the eleventh hour of the day.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Ephraim, also spelled Ephraem and Ephrem, was known as Ephraim the Syrian or Ephraim of Nisibis to distinguish him from other Ephraims. He was a prominent Christian author in the fourth century (born in 306, died in 373). He was widely respected by his peers and is the most important and prolific of the Syrian fathers of his time. His works were so popular that many were translated into Greek from his native Syriac

This early Christian author lived in the fourth century, which means to us today that is….1,625 years ago. what did he say?
For those who are wondering that is 1,400 years before the 1800.

Behold, the kingdom of heaven is at the doors [ready] to flash forth, but we don’t want to hear about these things — not ever. The signs and wonders, which the Lord said had to happen, the famines, the earthquakes, the terrors, and the nations in upheaval. These all seem to us like a dream to be told to others. The report of these things does not disturb us, nor the spectacle itself. For the elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation, so they shall not see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon the unrighteous world. The season for harvest has now drawn nigh, and the end of the age holds forth. Angels holding scythes are waiting for the nod. Let us fear, brethren, for it is the eleventh hour of the day.

Authorship Is Dubious
That quote comes from a work called “Sermo Asceticus” or “On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World”— which wasn’t even written by Ephraim himself, but by a later writer in his tradition. Most scholars label it pseudo-Ephraim.
It’s not from 306–373 AD — it’s more likely 5th–7th century, and even that’s debated.

So no, it’s not 1,400 years before 1800. It’s maybe 1,100 at best — and not written by the guy it's attributed to.

The Passage Doesn’t Teach a Pre-Trib Rapture

Here’s what it actually says:
“For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”

Sounds pre-trib at first glance? Not so fast.

The phrase “prior to the tribulation” could easily refer to God taking believers out of the world via martyrdom or natural death, not a secret rapture.

It’s vague, non-apostolic, and not consistent with Jesus’ own teaching in Matthew 24, where He says after the tribulation, the Son of Man will gather His elect (Matt. 24:29–31).

If pseudo-Ephraim was saying believers get out before the chaos — that doesn't automatically mean a pre-trib rapture. It might mean they avoid the worst of it through God’s providence. Not escapism, not Scofield and not ridiculous Hollywood 'Left Behind' nonsense.

“The elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation.”
Nice quote — but it’s not Scripture.
It’s not apostolic.
And it contradicts Jesus Himself, who said:
“Immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect.” (Matthew 24:29–31)
Not before. Not secretly. Not Scofield-style.
After. Visibly. With power and glory.

 

[Curtis]

Authorship Is Dubious
That quote comes from a work called “Sermo Asceticus” or “On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World”— which wasn’t even written by Ephraim himself, but by a later writer in his tradition. Most scholars label it pseudo-Ephraim.
It’s not from 306–373 AD — it’s more likely 5th–7th century, and even that’s debated.

So no, it’s not 1,400 years before 1800. It’s maybe 1,100 at best — and not written by the guy it's attributed to.

The Passage Doesn’t Teach a Pre-Trib Rapture

Here’s what it actually says:
“For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”

Sounds pre-trib at first glance? Not so fast.

The phrase “prior to the tribulation” could easily refer to God taking believers out of the world via martyrdom or natural death, not a secret rapture.

It’s vague, non-apostolic, and not consistent with Jesus’ own teaching in Matthew 24, where He says after the tribulation, the Son of Man will gather His elect (Matt. 24:29–31).

If pseudo-Ephraim was saying believers get out before the chaos — that doesn't automatically mean a pre-trib rapture. It might mean they avoid the worst of it through God’s providence. Not escapism, not Scofield and not ridiculous Hollywood 'Left Behind' nonsense.

“The elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation.”
Nice quote — but it’s not Scripture.
It’s not apostolic.
And it contradicts Jesus Himself, who said:
“Immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect.” (Matthew 24:29–31)
Not before. Not secretly. Not Scofield-style.
After. Visibly. With power and glory.

Sorry for your loss here. Nope, this guy was born at the beginning of the fourth century, making his birth about 300 AD.
Besides, he is not the only one of the early church fathers who said the same thing. There are many others, I just gave one to disprove your 1800-year error.

 

[Curtis]

Mat 24:44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Mat 24:45 "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,'
Mat 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards,
Mat 24:50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The danger of saying "the Lord is delaying His coming." Now, I feel that any time that a person declares the necessity of some event before the Lord comes for His church, is in essence saying the Lord is going to delay His coming until the Antichrist is revealed, or the Lord is going to delay His coming until after we have gone through the tribulation. And it is in essence saying the Lord is delaying His coming.

 

[Garee]

Authorship Is Dubious
That quote comes from a work called “Sermo Asceticus” or “On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World”— which wasn’t even written by Ephraim himself, but by a later writer in his tradition. Most scholars label it pseudo-Ephraim.
It’s not from 306–373 AD — it’s more likely 5th–7th century, and even that’s debated.

So no, it’s not 1,400 years before 1800. It’s maybe 1,100 at best — and not written by the guy it's attributed to.

Amen sola scriptura at least two thousand years


Ephraim of Nisibis Roman Catholic they like Greek orthodoxic have no salvation .Just Limbo suffering for the younger sinners and Purgatory for the more mature Catholic .

 

[Curtis]

Amen sola scriptura at least two thousand years


Ephraim of Nisibis Roman Catholic they like Greek orthodoxic have no salvation .Just Limbo suffering for the younger sinners and Purgatory for the more mature Catholic .

Ephrem of Nisibis was not a Roman Catholic. He lived in the 4th century CE and was a prominent figure in Syriac Christianity, specifically within the Church of the East. While he is revered by various denominations, including the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, he was not a Roman Catholic during his lifetime.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Sorry for your loss here. Nope, this guy was born at the beginning of the fourth century, making his birth about 300 AD.
Besides, he is not the only one of the early church fathers who said the same thing. There are many others, I just gave one to disprove your 1800-year error.

So some drunk from 300AD overrides Jesus Christ?

“Immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect.” (Matthew 24:29–31)

I don't think so...

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

What Jesus Christ Taught:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days... they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds... and he will send his angels to gather his elect." — Matthew 24:29–31

Jesus places the gathering of the elect (the rapture) after the tribulation, not before.

"In this world you will have tribulation."
— John 16:33

"He who endures to the end will be saved."
— Matthew 24:13

Jesus never once taught a secret escape. He warned of suffering, endurance, and resurrection at His visible return.

What the Apostles Taught:

Paul:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, don't let anyone deceive you... that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed." — 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3

No pre-trib rapture. Paul says we are gathered to Christ after the Antichrist is revealed.

Peter:
“The day of the Lord will come like a thief... and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.”
— 2 Peter 3:10

No secret escape — the day of the Lord is a cosmic, visible judgment.

John:
"They came to life and reigned with Christ... This is the first resurrection."
— Revelation 20:4–5

He places the first resurrection after the beheading of saints — not before tribulation.

What the Early Church Fathers Taught:

Justin Martyr (100–165 AD)
Expected the Church to face the Antichrist and tribulation before Christ’s return.
Taught a literal return of Christ after a time of suffering.

Irenaeus of Lyons (130–202 AD)
In Against Heresies, he says the Antichrist must come first, and that the Church will endure tribulation before the resurrection and return of Christ.

Tertullian (155–240 AD)
Taught that the resurrection would occur at Christ’s second coming, following persecution — not beforehand.

Hippolytus of Rome (170–235 AD)
In On Christ and Antichrist, he clearly describes the Church suffering under the Antichrist, and being vindicated at Christ’s return.

Cyprian of Carthage (200–258 AD)
Spoke of tribulation as a refining process, preparing Christians for glory. He never taught an escape from it.

Victorinus of Pettau (died c. 303 AD)
In his Commentary on Revelation, he placed the Church inside the tribulation period — not removed from it.

Lactantius (250–325 AD)
In Divine Institutes, he describes a time of great distress and persecution the righteous would endure before judgment and resurrection.

Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD)
Rejected any “two-stage” coming of Christ. He affirmed one resurrection at one second coming, when the righteous and wicked are judged together.

Jesus didn’t teach a pre-trib rapture.
The Apostles didn’t teach a pre-trib rapture.
Not a single early Church Father taught a pre-trib rapture.

The entire historic Church expected to endure tribulation and be resurrected at Christ’s visible return.

The pre-trib rapture was invented in 1830 by John Nelson Darby and popularized by the convicted conman C.I. Scofield in 1909 — and has zero historical backing from anyone in the first 1,800 years of Christianity.

You're following the delusions of two 19th-century charlatans — backed by Rockefeller money & the Oxford Press — who in 1909, distributed millions of “free” Scofield Reference Bibles across America to rewire the theology of an entire nation.

Why? Because if the early church fathers had been at the helm of the U.S. military in 1948, they would’ve blown Lord Rothschild’s UN-backed Khazar army out of Palestine and straight back to Hell where it belongs.

Instead, they fed the West a lie — a Zionist delusion wrapped in false prophecy — and the masses lined up for the Kool Aid.

Now we’re left with Rothschild’s False Israel™ — a patch of stolen dirt in the Middle East, propped up by UN resolutions, war machines, and evangelical ignorance. It’s filled with 8 million (false Jew) GENTILE converts — Eastern Europeans, Khazars and Slavs — cosplaying as the literal descendants of Abraham, while having no genetic, linguistic, or theological connection to ancient Israel. These people are crazier than the Jim Jones cult.

It’s not just deception — it’s delusion on a biblical scale.

The fact that so many Western "Christians" have bought into this fantasy from Hell is itself proof of the veil Paul warned about — a spiritual blindness so deep, they can’t tell the synagogue of Satan from the covenant of Christ.

This isn’t faith.
It’s blasphemy wrapped in a blue and white flag, flying the demonic sigil of the Star of Remphan — a symbol explicitly condemned by God:

“Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.” — Acts 7:43 (quoting Amos 5:26)

That 6-pointed, 6-sided, 6-triangle demonic star has nothing to do with David — and everything to do with pagan idolatry.
It’s the Star of Remphan — a demonic symbol condemned in both Amos 5:26 and Acts 7:43 — carried by those who turned their backs on God and worshiped the hosts of heaven.

It was imported from Babylon, renamed for deception, and is now proudly flown over a secular, Christ-rejecting counterfeit "Israel" — a political creation, not a prophetic fulfillment.
God never ordained it. The Messiah never endorsed it. And the apostles would have rebuked it on sight.

You’re not looking at the Star of David.
You’re looking at the mark of rebellion — the symbol of a nation that denies the Son, rejects the Gospel, and yet exalts itself under false divine authority.

“Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.”
— 1 John 2:22

Wake up, you're lost under the veil.
Beyond brainwashed to the nth degree.
You’re not "blessing Israel", you don't even know who, or what Israel is. It's the Body of Christ, not dirt...
You’re blessing a Zionist deception that mocks the blood of the Lamb and hijacks the promises of God.

You’re not reading prophecy.
You’re choking on propaganda.

You’ve been veiled. Brainwashed. Bought.

 

[Jesua888]

Why did you need to ask that?

What do you need to discuss the "let there be" things of Christ's powerful faith the invisible things of God?

God calls those who have no need for the Bible fools .The pagan foundation "out of sight out of mind" .They say I don't see God why they should believe??

I took Leema's question as "why do you need a bible, when you can use all the tools found on internet" ...

 

[Jesua888]

For the elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation, so they shall not see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon the unrighteous world. The season for harvest has now drawn nigh, and the end of the age holds forth. Angels holding scythes are waiting for the nod. Let us fear, brethren, for it is the eleventh hour of the day.

Curtis, where do you get this information from (bold letters), thanks Linda

 

[Curtis]

Curtis, where do you get this information from (bold letters), thanks Linda

Ephraim, also spelled Ephraem and Ephrem, was known as Ephraim the Syrian or Ephraim of Nisibis to distinguish him from other Ephraims. He was a prominent Christian author in the fourth century (born in 306, died in 373). He was widely respected by his peers and is the most important and prolific of the Syrian fathers of his time. His works were so popular that many were translated into Greek from his native Syriac while he was yet alive, giving them a wide circulation. Many of these works are still used and revered to this day in the Greek-speaking Orthodox Churches. Theologically, Ephraim was Eastern or Syrian, monastic, and amillennial. His non-literal eschatology makes his defense of the pretribulation rapture particularly noteworthy. In the face of the juggernaut of replacement theology that was crushing all dissent in the church, he stood fast and maintained a pretribulational testimony. Sadly, the majority of his Greek works haven’t been translated into English.1 The few that have been can be accessed on websites devoted to Ephraim’s ministry or patristic theology in general. A good place to start is Roger Pearse’s website.2

 

[Leumas]

I use it to check for authenticity of videos, sermons and quotes ... also should anything happen to internet, I want my hard copy : )

Why are you watching videos and listening to sermons and quotes, when you can just take the Bible yourself and read it yourself. That don't make any sense that you're seeking the truth from some other source other than the Bible and then using the Bible as your foundation source of Truth to validate anything else, when you have the Bible as your foundation source of Truth.

 

[Garee]

Ephrem of Nisibis was not a Roman Catholic. He lived in the 4th century CE and was a prominent figure in Syriac Christianity, specifically within the Church of the East. While he is revered by various denominations, including the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, he was not a Roman Catholic during his lifetime.

Thanks . Did he venerate a queen of heaven?

 

[Curtis]

Immediately after the tribulation of those days... they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds... and he will send his angels to gather his elect." — Matthew 24:29–31

Jesus places the gathering of the elect (the rapture) after the tribulation, not before.

Nowhere does this scripture say the angels are gathering together of his elec to heaven. It is the gathering together for Judgement as it says here.

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

None of Gods elect (sheep) at this time are raptured they are gathered together and are allowed to enter the Millennial kingdom of God. The goats are cast into the fire.

Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Garee]

This early Christian author lived in the fourth century, which means to us today that is….1,625 years ago. what did he say?
For those who are wondering that is 1,400 years before the 1800.

Makes an interesting history. One Christian author Christ the husband. Early private interpretation yes.

I would think it makes no difference what his private interpretation said.

Comparing oneself to oneself with those who venerate themselves and not comparing their own thoughts to those of Christ as it is written. Is unwise.

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Christ's faithful understanding as a labor of His love works in those yoked with his love,

We have the same source of powerful faith as it is written sola scriptura today than they did over two thousand years ago

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Sola scriptura = same spirit of faith (Let there be) power

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit (Christ) by the works of the law,(thou shall not, or you are dead) or by the hearing of faith?. . . (the spiritual understanding of Christ)

 

[B-A-C]

Nowhere does this scripture say the angels are gathering together of his elec to heaven. It is the gathering together for Judgement as it says here.

Matt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Mark 13:24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

The danger of saying "the Lord is delaying His coming." Now, I feel that any time that a person declares the necessity of some event before the Lord comes for His church, is in essence saying the Lord is going to delay His coming until the Antichrist is revealed,

That is exactly what it says.

2Thes 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Thes 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

It seems anyone who believes otherwise is deceived, or trying to deceive others.
Why would anyone disagree with what the Bible says here?