Is Discipleship a requirement for Salvation?

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Salvation means you are saved, your sins are forgiven, when Jesus returns you will be with Him in paradise.

Discipleship is following Jesus, denying yourself and taking up your cross.

Now can one be saved and not a disciple?

I hear some pastors preach that salvation is free (anyone who believes and puts their trust in Jesus) but
discipleship is costly.

However, in my mind I can't make a distinction. For me I can't see a difference and say, well I'm saved because I believe
but I don't want to be a disciple or take up my cross. I just don't see how that works. If you believe
in Jesus, why wouldn't you want to give Him your all.

Why would anyone chance it and think they are saved and not give Him your all, and on the day of judgement hear, "depart from me I never knew you"?

Is there a difference between discipleship and salvation and is it worth mentioning. For me, I'm totally focused on being a disciple, because it makes
no sense in my mind to note the difference because in my humble opinion (and if I'm wrong I'll learn and grow), I don't see myself resting anywhere
in being saved but not taking up my cross and denying myself.

But perhaps it isn't strange that those who believe OSAS (Once saved always saved) tend to make this distinction between discipleship and salvation.

Salvation versus Discipleship – Part 2: Rewards

Part 2 of the series dealing with rewards of salvation versus that of discipleship.

oncesaved.org

They say

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

For example look at number 3 on the list, they say that being saved is about being forgiven,
while being a disciple means being sanctified or Holy.

But didn't the Bible say that without Holiness no one can see God.
And doesn't the Bible say that He who began a good work will bring it to the day of completion?

 

[GodB4Us]

Discipleship is separate from salvation because you have to be saved with Jesus Christ in you so you can have power to run that race as His disciples, looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside very weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son to be fruitful and hat our joy may be full.

If one runs that race to obtain salvation, then that would be the same as running that race by denying Him that you are saved without works by the grace of God thus denying the faith in Jesus Christ.

Yet the consequences for not moving unto perfection and building wood, stubble, and hay on that foundation in defiling the temple of God, shows a failure to look to Him daily thus not trusting Him to be our Good Shepherd for help in following Him and losing sight of Him when the storms of life hits us. Sort of like the two in the parable of the Sower that had received the seed, Christ, but the soil was bad for why they were not bearing fruit as His disciples.

The eternal consequence is not loss of salvation, but loss of the reward of crowns whereby one can find himself as a castaway where they miss out on being of the firstfruits of the resurrection in being vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven, They are left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth to serve the King of kings on earth for the coming generations during the millennium reign of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

THE CONSEQUENCES FOR NOT RUNNING THAT RACE IS BELOW AS THE FATHER WILL SCOURGE OR GIVE STRIPES TO THE CASTAWAYS.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

So we are not running that race to obtain salvation les by that work we deny Him that we are saved by the grace of God by our believing in Him.

We run that race as going on to perfection by His grace & by His help as we run by faith in Him to help us to follow Him as He will finish His work in us to His glory when we place our confidence in Him to do it.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

No one after salvation should be believing it is okay to live in sin. If they do, they are lacking discipleship in learning to trust Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd in helping them abide in His words in following Him as His disciples so as to avoid being a castaway when the Bridegroom comes. They need to be warned to repent because they will be judged by what they have built on that foundation.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Those left behind are still saved for why running that race as His disciple is not for obtaining salvation but to obtain the eternal glory of being that vessel unto honor in His House that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

 

[GodB4Us]

Those unrepentant saints and former believers left behind are still saved for why running that race as His disciple is not for obtaining salvation but to obtain the eternal glory of being that vessel unto honor in His House that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Discipleship is separate from salvation because you have to be saved with Jesus Christ in you so you can have power to run that race as His disciples, looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside very weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son to be fruitful and hat our joy may be full.

If one runs that race to obtain salvation, then that would be the same as running that race by denying Him that you are saved without works by the grace of God thus denying the faith in Jesus Christ.

Yet the consequences for not moving unto perfection and building wood, stubble, and hay on that foundation in defiling the temple of God, shows a failure to look to Him daily thus not trusting Him to be our Good Shepherd for help in following Him and losing sight of Him when the storms of life hits us. Sort of like the two in the parable of the Sower that had received the seed, Christ, but the soil was bad for why they were not bearing fruit as His disciples.

The eternal consequence is not loss of salvation, but loss of the reward of crowns whereby one can find himself as a castaway where they miss out on being of the firstfruits of the resurrection in being vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven, They are left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth to serve the King of kings on earth for the coming generations during the millennium reign of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

THE CONSEQUENCES FOR NOT RUNNING THAT RACE IS BELOW AS THE FATHER WILL SCOURGE OR GIVE STRIPES TO THE CASTAWAYS.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

So we are not running that race to obtain salvation les by that work we deny Him that we are saved by the grace of God by our believing in Him.

We run that race as going on to perfection by His grace & by His help as we run by faith in Him to help us to follow Him as He will finish His work in us to His glory when we place our confidence in Him to do it.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

No one after salvation should be believing it is okay to live in sin. If they do, they are lacking discipleship in learning to trust Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd in helping them abide in His words in following Him as His disciples so as to avoid being a castaway when the Bridegroom comes. They need to be warned to repent because they will be judged by what they have built on that foundation.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Those left behind are still saved for why running that race as His disciple is not for obtaining salvation but to obtain the eternal glory of being that vessel unto honor in His House that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

Thanks for the reply brother.

Yea the terms are different but, is the distinction worth making?

Meaning, do you believe that one can life not walking in Holiness and still see God when they die?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

What I'm asking is, should we teach the world that one can not follow Jesus (be a disciple) and still be saved.

Your answer is yes?

 

[GodB4Us]

Thanks for the reply brother.

Yea the terms are different but, is the distinction worth making?

Meaning, do you believe that one can life not walking in Holiness and still see God when they die?

If you reread this passage below, you can see what the Father does with the scourging so that they may be partakers of His holiness.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

So yes, a saved believer not walking in Holiness can still see God when they die, because the Father will see to their scourging for not walking in holiness so they may be partakers of His holiness.

That foundation Jesus has laid cannot be removed. That seal of adoption is not going any where... BUT

If any one defiles the Temple of God by living in sin, God will destroy that physical body to such a degree that they will not have eternal life in the same way as those of the firstfruits of the resurrection because the firstfruits will be like the angels that never die and never marry either, but those resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor, vessels of wood and earth, a glorified terrestrial inheritance, where the power of the second death will not be over them, but is that hinting that the power of the first death still does for why they, and the generations following them, has to visit New Jerusalem to eat from the tree of life for the healing of the nations? Scripture does suggests this and yet after 1000 years when Satan is released from the pit to stage a last rebellion for a small season, and gets defeated for the last time, Satan and his fallen angels will be cast into the lake of fire along with hell & death, thus signifying when the glorified terrestrial inherited saints will never die a physical death again as they will never sin against Him again to be separated from the love of God ever again.

Think of it in this way.. the prodigal son wasted his inheritance on wild living and can never get it back, but he will find that he is still son. Like Esau, there is a keen loss for that first inheritance, that birth right, but God will wipe the tears from their eyes from their weeping and gnashing their teeth to get over that loss. In other words, after God wipes the tears from their eyes, they will not be weeping nor gnashing their teeth any more.

 

[GodB4Us]

What I'm asking is, should we teach the world that one can not follow Jesus (be a disciple) and still be saved.

Your answer is yes?

Teach that even though it is true? No. To teach something like that is ignoring the obvious repercussions for not trusting Jesus Christ to help them to follow Him. It is a ministry of reconciliation after all.

It would be like using God's grace to sin and that God forbids. Jesus died to pay the ransom for sin which is death and so we are not to continue living in sin which is what running that race is all about in being His disciples to bear fruit.

The danger here is thinking salvation is earned by running that race or by being His disciple thus denying Him as our Saviour for believing in Him, even in His name for how we are saved by the grace of God.

It is after salvation with Jesus Christ in us is how we have the power to live as the sons of God, looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son thus living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Running that race is moving on to perfection for the high prize of our calling to be that vessels unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus and for that incorruptible crown which is by His grace & by His help as the crowns are His crowning achievements in us for why the elders and every other firstfruit would cast their crowns at His feet for we are the work of His hands for why we are praising Him in Heaven.

Psalm 100:1Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands.
2 Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

Since our confidence is in Him to finish His work in us to His glory, we can have confidence in Him to finish His work in those unrepentant saints and former believers left behind.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.
8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.
11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Thanks for answering the question,

So, this is why I come to a different conclusion.
Try to see if you can understand my logic first without going into auto-respond mode.
Just see if you can pause for a moment, and see if you can hear that Jesus is saying.

The passage which people use to show the difference between discipleship and salvation is often where Jesus says "If anyone would come after me,
let them deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow me..."

People say, that Salvation is free but discipleship is work, evidenced by Jesus talking about taking up your cross.
However the verse that they use to describe discipleship, they don't continue to the end where Jesus then says,
"If you try to save your life you will lose it, and if you lose your life you will gain it".


So for a moment forget that you believe that discipleship is not a requirement for salvation and listen to what
Jesus is saying. He contrast those who take this path with those who don't. You are very very very very very familiar this setup.
Jesus did it many times, He contrasted the broad road with those on the narrow road. He contrasted those who were sheep
and those we were goats, and He contrasted those who He knew and those who he will say "depart I never knew you".

Once again, Jesus in this verse contrasts those who are desire to follow Him(disciples) and those who don't. He says that
the difference is those who take up their cross, deny themselves, and follow Him(disciples) will find their true life and those
who don't (because they are holding on to their life) will lose it. What can it profit one to gain the whole world and lose their lose.

Do you remember the rich man who came to follow Jesus? And Jesus said sell all your things and "follow me", and the man
walked away sad because he was rich? What did Jesus say, Did Jesus say, "well he is saved he is just not a disciple?". No that
was not Jesus response, Jesus talked about how difficult it was for rich people to get into the Kingdom of God.
Remember when Jesus told people to come follow him (be a disciple) and they were like I have to bury this person, or
let me tell my wife first), do you remember what Jesus said? He said if you put your hand to the plow and look back
you are not fit for the Kingdom.

So I think we sometimes have our theology views, but we ignore what Jesus is clearly saying, and clearly Jesus put before us
a contrast, those who (deny, take up cross, follow) vs those who don't. He tells us that those who do will find life and those who
don't will not.

Before you respond in an auto reply mood, restating your points, I just want you to address what I have said and tell me if
I have mis-quoted Jesus and if Jesus did not clearly show a contrast, Group A gets life, Group B does not, and this is the difference.
Do you not see that? For example, the sheep and goat (difference being I was sick and you visited me, hungry you fed me -- (not saving
works says you but if their isn't evidence of your love then....)
Another example, those who he knows vs those who he does not (difference being one did the WILL of the Father and others practiced inequity
-- once again, not saying the work of doing His WILL saves you but this is evidence that you are saved).

Do you not see this same setup here with those who (deny, take up cross, and follow) vs those who don't and that the outcome will be?

 

[Garee]

Salvation means you are saved, your sins are forgiven, when Jesus returns you will be with Him in paradise.

Discipleship is following Jesus, denying yourself and taking up your cross.

Now can one be saved and not a disciple?

I hear some pastors preach that salvation is free (anyone who believes and puts their trust in Jesus) but
discipleship is costly.

However, in my mind I can't make a distinction. For me I can't see a difference and say, well I'm saved because I believe
but I don't want to be a disciple or take up my cross. I just don't see how that works. If you believe
in Jesus, why wouldn't you want to give Him your all.

Why would anyone chance it and think they are saved and not give Him your all, and on the day of judgement hear, "depart from me I never knew you"?

Is there a difference between discipleship and salvation and is it worth mentioning. For me, I'm totally focused on being a disciple, because it makes
no sense in my mind to note the difference because in my humble opinion (and if I'm wrong I'll learn and grow), I don't see myself resting anywhere
in being saved but not taking up my cross and denying myself.

But perhaps it isn't strange that those who believe OSAS (Once saved always saved) tend to make this distinction between discipleship and salvation.

Salvation versus Discipleship – Part 2: Rewards

Part 2 of the series dealing with rewards of salvation versus that of discipleship.

oncesaved.org

They say

Disciple , disapline training in regard to rule . Satan has his disciples as does God The disciples in John 6 walked away faithless (no beleif coming from God ) They did not get under the rule of the hearing of Christ faith that works in his true disciples

 

[GodB4Us]

Thanks for answering the question,

So, this is why I come to a different conclusion.
Try to see if you can understand my logic first without going into auto-respond mode.
Just see if you can pause for a moment, and see if you can hear that Jesus is saying.

The passage which people use to show the difference between discipleship and salvation is often where Jesus says "If anyone would come after me,
let them deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow me..."

People say, that Salvation is free but discipleship is work, evidenced by Jesus talking about taking up your cross.
However the verse that they use to describe discipleship, they don't continue to the end where Jesus then says,
"If you try to save your life you will lose it, and if you lose your life you will gain it".

What Jesus is saying is about anyone desiring to follow Him and so this is about " how " to follow Him. That means we have to deny ourselves as able to follow Him as we did in denying our ability to save ourselves. By picking up the cross daily, we are acknowledging death to ourselves and it is Jesus Christ Who lives in us for how we are following Him. When you consider that Jesus says "Follow me" after denying yourself, that means surrender your trust in Him that He will help you to follow Him since He is the Good Shepherd and not just our Saviour.

So I do not see discipleship as a work but a reconciled relationship with God based on trusting in Jesus Christ for all things for why His yoke is easy and His burden is light. We really cannot do anything without Him

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

It took the Lord a long time to help me to see how I was led astray by the church in making a commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life. Indeed, other man made bondages were added on later on until He set me free from all of them for me to rest in Him & His words to me that He will do this; He will help me to follow Him.

So for a moment forget that you believe that discipleship is not a requirement for salvation and listen to what
Jesus is saying. He contrast those who take this path with those who don't. You are very very very very very familiar this setup.
Jesus did it many times, He contrasted the broad road with those on the narrow road. He contrasted those who were sheep
and those we were goats, and He contrasted those who He knew and those who he will say "depart I never knew you".

Once again, Jesus in this verse contrasts those who are desire to follow Him(disciples) and those who don't. He says that
the difference is those who take up their cross, deny themselves, and follow Him(disciples) will find their true life and those
who don't (because they are holding on to their life) will lose it. What can it profit one to gain the whole world and lose their lose.

Do you remember the rich man who came to follow Jesus? And Jesus said sell all your things and "follow me", and the man
walked away sad because he was rich? What did Jesus say, Did Jesus say, "well he is saved he is just not a disciple?". No that
was not Jesus response, Jesus talked about how difficult it was for rich people to get into the Kingdom of God.
Remember when Jesus told people to come follow him (be a disciple) and they were like I have to bury this person, or
let me tell my wife first), do you remember what Jesus said? He said if you put your hand to the plow and look back
you are not fit for the Kingdom.

I believe the cost of discipleship is being ready & willing to give up your lives and your loved ones on earth for when the Bridegroom comes ( Luke 14:15-35 ) because the cares of this life can be a snare for why some will not want to leave. Luke 21:33-36 That is why Jesus referred to Lot's wife in verse 32 of Luke 17:26-37 No one should think about getting something from this life to take with them when the Bridegroom comes per verse 31. So it is essential we lean on him for help to not treasure anything on this earth or in this life that we would go back to get, not our beloved, not our family member, not our parents, not our pets even. The Bridegroom should be the first & only love that matters.

If you consider that there is such a thing as a rich Christian for why they are to be exhorted in this fashion...

1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

So the rich should be ready to continue to trust in God should they ever become poor due to uncertain riches because He will take care of them.

Can Paul teach that which is contrary to Christ about the rich man that walked away from following Him? And yet Jesus was referring to him not being able "enter the kingdom of heaven" as in when the rapture comes for how I see Him to mean; Jesus saw he loved his riches more that he would not want to leave it nor this life for why he would stay behind at the rapture event. That is the real cost of discipleship is being willing to leave everything & everyone behind.

That is why prayer is needed as i know I will need His help to leave everything and everyone I love behind into His hands.

So I think we sometimes have our theology views, but we ignore what Jesus is clearly saying, and clearly Jesus put before us
a contrast, those who (deny, take up cross, follow) vs those who don't. He tells us that those who do will find life and those who
don't will not.

Before you respond in an auto reply mood, restating your points, I just want you to address what I have said and tell me if
I have mis-quoted Jesus and if Jesus did not clearly show a contrast, Group A gets life, Group B does not, and this is the difference.
Do you not see that? For example, the sheep and goat (difference being I was sick and you visited me, hungry you fed me -- (not saving
works says you but if their isn't evidence of your love then....)
Another example, those who he knows vs those who he does not (difference being one did the WILL of the Father and others practiced inequity
-- once again, not saying the work of doing His WILL saves you but this is evidence that you are saved).

Do you not see this same setup here with those who (deny, take up cross, and follow) vs those who don't and that the outcome will be?

Trust is the basis for all relationships and so Jesus asking us to deny ourselves to pick up the cross daily in following Him is asking us to trust Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him. This is how we can follow Him.

Some will resort to their own power or their own zeal in following Him and find their flesh is weak and hard to do no matter how much their spirit is willing. So what is impossible with man, is possible with God in all things.

Is our hope on ourselves in doing the best we can? Then we have yet to deny ourselves as able to follow Him.

Is our hope on Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him? Then we shall have more praises and thanksgiving to give Him in Heaven for why no flesh shall glory in His Presence.

Not every believer knows this for why many have gone astray in how they are not following Him.

When you see how we are to follow Him as our confidence is in Him to finish His work in us to His glory, then that is why we can leave our loved ones behind for He will finish His work in them to His glory of all the unrepentant saints & former believers that gets left behind.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

What Jesus is saying is about anyone desiring to follow Him and so this is about " how " to follow Him. That means we have to deny ourselves as able to follow Him as we did in denying our ability to save ourselves. By picking up the cross daily, we are acknowledging death to ourselves and it is Jesus Christ Who lives in us for how we are following Him. When you consider that Jesus says "Follow me" after denying yourself, that means surrender your trust in Him that He will help you to follow Him since He is the Good Shepherd and not just our Saviour.

So I do not see discipleship as a work but a reconciled relationship with God based on trusting in Jesus Christ for all things for why His yoke is easy and His burden is light. We really cannot do anything without Him

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

It took the Lord a long time to help me to see how I was led astray by the church in making a commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life. Indeed, other man made bondages were added on later on until He set me free from all of them for me to rest in Him & His words to me that He will do this; He will help me to follow Him.

I believe the cost of discipleship is being ready & willing to give up your lives and your loved ones on earth for when the Bridegroom comes ( Luke 14:15-35 ) because the cares of this life can be a snare for why some will not want to leave. Luke 21:33-36 That is why Jesus referred to Lot's wife in verse 32 of Luke 17:26-37 No one should think about getting something from this life to take with them when the Bridegroom comes per verse 31. So it is essential we lean on him for help to not treasure anything on this earth or in this life that we would go back to get, not our beloved, not our family member, not our parents, not our pets even. The Bridegroom should be the first & only love that matters.

If you consider that there is such a thing as a rich Christian for why they are to be exhorted in this fashion...

1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

So the rich should be ready to continue to trust in God should they ever become poor due to uncertain riches because He will take care of them.

Can Paul teach that which is contrary to Christ about the rich man that walked away from following Him? And yet Jesus was referring to him not being able "enter the kingdom of heaven" as in when the rapture comes for how I see Him to mean; Jesus saw he loved his riches more that he would not want to leave it nor this life for why he would stay behind at the rapture event. That is the real cost of discipleship is being willing to leave everything & everyone behind.

That is why prayer is needed as i know I will need His help to leave everything and everyone I love behind into His hands.

Trust is the basis for all relationships and so Jesus asking us to deny ourselves to pick up the cross daily in following Him is asking us to trust Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him. This is how we can follow Him.

Some will resort to their own power or their own zeal in following Him and find their flesh is weak and hard to do no matter how much their spirit is willing. So what is impossible with man, is possible with God in all things.

Is our hope on ourselves in doing the best we can? Then we have yet to deny ourselves as able to follow Him.

Is our hope on Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him? Then we shall have more praises and thanksgiving to give Him in Heaven for why no flesh shall glory in His Presence.

Not every believer knows this for why many have gone astray in how they are not following Him.

When you see how we are to follow Him as our confidence is in Him to finish His work in us to His glory, then that is why we can leave our loved ones behind for He will finish His work in them to His glory of all the unrepentant saints & former believers that gets left behind.

Thanks for the reply, I don't see where you responded to my question where I asked about the contrast that Jesus
drew between saving your life and losing it and how following Him was how you save your life.

But perhaps you desire to focus on other areas on this topic. Stay blessed and thanks for sharing your
thoughts. If we ever revisit this discussion let's next time see if we can mention my points related to
the connection Jesus talks about between life and death, and following Him and not following Him.

Stay blessed brother.

 

[Garee]

So I do not see discipleship as a work but a reconciled relationship with God based on trusting in Jesus Christ for all things for why His yoke is easy and His burden is light. We really cannot do anything without Him

Yes, his work of faith must increase. Without him we can do nothing pleasing to God. In that sense (work of faith) it’s a work of God or labor of his love that works in us yoked with him making our daily burdens lighter .. (Philippians 2:12-13)

In that way we really cannot do anything without Him. He gives us little of His faith called the golden measure. The phrase “little faith” is used 5 times in Mathew. Not measurable by man. He is the storeroom

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

The mutaul faith that works in all beleivers of little faith .

 

[GodB4Us]

Thanks for the reply, I don't see where you responded to my question where I asked about the contrast that Jesus
drew between saving your life and losing it and how following Him was how you save your life.

I did by referring to the contrast of the rich man refusing to give up all that he has in following Him and Paul exhorting believers that are rich in the world to set their minds on the things above while enjoying what the Lord has given them to show that Jesus was referring to "how" to follow Him when He comes as the Bridegroom. That is the true cost of discipleship; not giving up everything on earth to follow Him, but be ready to give up everything to follow Him Home above.

And even then we need His help to do even that for why we should pray for His help per Luke 21:33-36

But perhaps you desire to focus on other areas on this topic. Stay blessed and thanks for sharing your
thoughts. If we ever revisit this discussion let's next time see if we can mention my points related to
the connection Jesus talks about between life and death, and following Him and not following Him.

Stay blessed brother.

I suppose by His grace & by His help I shall address the other numerous contrasts but the answer would be the same when knowing how salvation is separate from discipleship for why those left behind are still saved even though found in iniquity for not abiding in Him as His disciples.

 

[GodB4Us]

Thanks for answering the question,

So, this is why I come to a different conclusion.
Try to see if you can understand my logic first without going into auto-respond mode.
Just see if you can pause for a moment, and see if you can hear that Jesus is saying.

The passage which people use to show the difference between discipleship and salvation is often where Jesus says "If anyone would come after me,
let them deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow me..."

What Jesus is saying is about anyone desiring to follow Him and so this is about " how " to follow Him. That means we have to deny ourselves as able to follow Him as we did in denying our ability to save ourselves. By picking up the cross daily, we are acknowledging death to ourselves and it is Jesus Christ Who lives in us for how we are following Him. When you consider that Jesus says "Follow me" after denying yourself, that means surrender your trust in Him that He will help you to follow Him since He is the Good Shepherd and not just our Saviour.

So I do not see discipleship as a work but a reconciled relationship with God based on trusting in Jesus Christ for all things for why His yoke is easy and His burden is light. We really cannot do anything without Him

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

It took the Lord a long time to help me to see how I was led astray by the church in making a commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life. Indeed, other man made bondages were added on later on until He set me free from all of them for me to rest in Him & His words to me that He will do this; He will help me to follow Him.

People say, that Salvation is free but discipleship is work, evidenced by Jesus talking about taking up your cross.
However the verse that they use to describe discipleship, they don't continue to the end where Jesus then says,
"If you try to save your life you will lose it, and if you lose your life you will gain it".

Billy Graham's altar call is if you are not sure you are saved, make a commitment to follow Christ thus the opposite of the gospel he had preached that all those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. So all those who believed that came forward were led astray by answering a call that most religious men would adhere to in looking to what they can do to insure they are saved as if keeping that commitment to follow Christ will give believers assurance of salvation.

It does not. Many find it hard and condemn themselves as if not trying hard enough or others would condemn them as such and some will even believe they are not saved because they are unable to keep that commitment to follow Him religiously thus failing to follow Him as His disciples.

Can we finish what was begun with the Spirit by the flesh? That was Paul's message to the Galatians and that was about circumcision, looking to themselves of what they can do by the law to finish what Christ has started in them. They can't because no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak.

Even Billy Graham doubted Jesus would receive him because he was not always a good Christian in an interview with Tony Snow. Why would he say that? Billy Graham judged himself by that commitment to follow Christ thus the law by that commitment, is the knowledge of sin for why no one will be justified by that attempt in keeping that commitment to follow Christ.

Tony Snow Interviews Billy Graham

"SNOW: When you get to Heaven, who's going to speak first, you or God?

GRAHAM: When I get there, I'm sure that Jesus is going to say that he
will welcome me. But I think that he's going to say: Well done, our good
and faithful servant. Or he may say: You're in the wrong place.

SNOW: You really worry that you may be told you're in the wrong place?

GRAHAM: Yes, because I have not -- I'm not a righteous man. People put
me up on a pedestal that I don't belong in my personal life. And they
think that I'm better than I am. I'm not the good man that people think
I am. Newspapers and magazines and television have made me out to be a
saint. I'm not. I'm not a Mother Teresa. And I feel that very much."

Is that not discipleship for us to follow Him? Yet He did not say make a vow, an oath, a promise, or a commitment to follow Him. He simply said deny yourself, pick up the cross daily, and follow Me.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

So we should consider that Jesus is telling us "HOW" to follow Him by denying ourselves as being able to, pick up the cross daily as in we are dead in Christ as Christ lives in us for how we are following Him.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If circumcision is the smallest letter of the law and if believers did that, they are entitled to do the whole law, then what is making a man made bondage to God is? The biggest letter of the law; Numbers 30:2 & Ecclesiastes 5:4-7

So resorting to our own power in how we follow Him by keeping that commitment to Christ is NOT discipleship but a departure from Him because that is the same as not trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

Billy Graham's altar call is a saved believer trying to save themselves by keeping that commitment to follow Christ when seeking assurances that they are saved, thus by seeking those assurances, they seek to be justified by keeping that commitment.

It is no wonder why sinners walk away from that altar call or the similar one calling for them to repent of sins before coming to Jesus Christ when they had tried to stop sinning before. How many walked away believing they had to clean up their lives first before coming to Jesus? Jesus came to save sinners from their sins and not just give eternal life.

I am going to stop here and allow you to ask specific questions if you want me to answer whatever it is you are asking about how discipleship has to be separate from the gospel that is being preached otherwise, it would be one very long gospel. It would be called the gospel of repentance from sins rather than the gospel of Jesus Christ. Once you see how we are saved by the grace of God by faith in Jesus Christ, then you may see how we are to follow Him in the same way.

 

[GodB4Us]

So for a moment forget that you believe that discipleship is not a requirement for salvation and listen to what
Jesus is saying. He contrast those who take this path with those who don't. You are very very very very very familiar this setup.
Jesus did it many times, He contrasted the broad road with those on the narrow road.

Depending on what Bible version you are using.

So let us address this contrast alone in regards to discipleship.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. KJV

Matthew 7:13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell[a] is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. NLT

The message between these two versions are different. The KJV is talking about how Jesus is the way John 14:6 and climbing up any other way is a work of iniquity John 10:1 which can be seen as broadening the way.

But when you look at the NLT, one get the sense that Christianity is hard and a very religious life. Thus one may see discipleship in that version in the same way, but there is contentions as it does not line up with the truth in scripture.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. KJV

Matthew 11:28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.” NLT

Both the KJV and the NLT has the same message that His yoke is easy and His burden is light when we learn of Him and come unto Him to find rest for our souls.

For the sake of avoiding a long post; you can read Hebrews 4:1-11 in the KJV and the NLT at this link ---- > Hebrews 4:1-11 KJV & NLT

Those who come to Jesus have entered into that rest, and so is discipleship really a work when we are to trust in Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him, thus getting to know Him and the power of His resurrection when we see ourselves as able to follow Him from what we could not do before by the religious flesh?

So which version are you going to take for discipleship in Matthew 7:13-14? The KJV in pointing us to Christ Jesus as the way or to the NLT pointing to ourselves as the way is difficult?

Feel free to ask further questions but I am addressing this contrast in regards to you applying it towards discipleship.

 

[GodB4Us]

So for a moment forget that you believe that discipleship is not a requirement for salvation and listen to what
Jesus is saying. He contrast those who take this path with those who don't. You are very very very very very familiar this setup.
Jesus did it many times, He contrasted the broad road with those on the narrow road. He contrasted those who were sheep
and those we were goats, and He contrasted those who He knew and those who he will say "depart I never knew you".

In continuing past the broad road and the narrow road contrast to the sheep and the goats contrast BUT are we seeing the result of discipleship in a saved believers' lives in running that race before the rapture event?

Matthew 25:31-46 KJV <--- at this link you may view the scripture in the KJV for the contrast of the sheep vs the goats.

Some will say that this is the Great White Throne Judgment and so has nothing to do with saved believers now but after Satan is put down for the last time for staging that last rebellion for a small season. This may be how He would judge those in the millennium generation in how they had treated the brethren.

But this judgment could very well be before the Great White Throne Judgment for how those without the mark of the beast had treated the saints during the great tribulation since those who had received the mark are judged to go to the lake of fire regardless as the beast and the false prophet & the army were dealt with at His return.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

I am undecided as to when Matthew 25:31-46 is to take place, I had believed it was the Great White Throne Judgment, but now taking pause, yet either way, this has nothing to do with how His disciples will be judged now in these latter days.

Unless you have another reference for the sheep and the goats contrast that pertains to believers in these latter days, I am assuming you are referring to Matthew 25:31-46 and so it should not be applied to your discussion.

 

[GodB4Us]

So for a moment forget that you believe that discipleship is not a requirement for salvation and listen to what
Jesus is saying. He contrast those who take this path with those who don't. You are very very very very very familiar this setup.
Jesus did it many times, He contrasted the broad road with those on the narrow road. He contrasted those who were sheep
and those we were goats, and He contrasted those who He knew and those who he will say "depart I never knew you".

Now to Him saying "I never knew you".

This does pertains to saved believers but not in the way you would expect.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. KJV

May God cause the increase because we see here an example of a former believer that would verbally deny Him to others for why He would deny him, but he is still saved because He still abides in them.

What about those He is denying knowing them in Matthew 7:21-23? Jesus said so because they were workers of iniquity, even though they were professing Him in supposedly doing service and miracles in His name.

Any iniquity on that foundation laid by Jesus Christ is a work that denies Him and for that, is why he is denying them as workers of iniquity.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Reprobate as disqualified in their running that race to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House.

We read on in 2 Timothy 2nd chapter by how Paul cites an example of a former believer, but he exhorts us to still call them to depart from iniquity so they too can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.....
....18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Discipleship requires departing from iniquity so as to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation.

Those failing to depart from iniquity when the Bridegroom comes are still In His House but damned as vessels unto dishonor in being left behind in missing out on the firstfruits of the resurrection, like Esau and the prodigal son, but still in His House.

So Him denying ever knowing those professing believers is because they were workers of iniquity, not that they were never saved, but that unrepentant iniquity denies Him for why He is denying knowing them.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are

Discipleship is what we build on that foundation which said foundation was laid by Jesus Christ and so any works that deny Him on that foundation, will be removed, but that foundation remains as that seal of adoption does too; hence no loss of salvation, but there is a loss of being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection, that birth right, thus the prodigal son giving up his inheritance for wild living and can never get it back, but he will find that he is still son.

Since there are scourging to be given by the Father for not resisting sin in running that race per Hebrews 11:1-11 KJV, stripes are coming to His servants left behind per the knowledge they had for not being ready as His disciples Luke 12:40-49 KJV no saved believer should be thinking that it doesn't matter if they live in sin or not, but many do only because they know not what they are doing, lacking discipleship into His words. They will still get stripes anyway.

 

[GodB4Us]

Yes, his work of faith must increase. Without him we can do nothing pleasing to God. In that sense (work of faith) it’s a work of God or labor of his love that works in us yoked with him making our daily burdens lighter .. (Philippians 2:12-13)

In that way we really cannot do anything without Him. He gives us little of His faith called the golden measure. The phrase “little faith” is used 5 times in Mathew. Not measurable by man. He is the storeroom

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

The mutaul faith that works in all beleivers of little faith .

Hence how we follow Him by faith in Him as His disciples, but the storms in our lives has a way of taking our eyes off of Him for why we should trust Him as our Good Shepherd to keep our eyes on Him to help us through the storms in life. Not every saved believer will do this for why the two in the parable of the Sower that had received the seed, hence Christ, were not fruitful as His disciples but the last one on good soil are.

 

[Dave M]

respect, trying to please my Lord and Savior, fear of my God, and obedience to my God are all reasons why I think all believers will be disciples of Jesus and keep his Word. NOT because they think they are earning salvation, NOT because they think they can work their way into heaven.

When you truly believe you put your whole heart and energy towards it. So yes I 100% firmly believe those that claim to believe in Jesus there will have proof in the way they live. This Does not mean they will be perfect. But if we are not producing fruit we are thrown in the fire, the only difference between the sheep that are saved and the goats that go into the fire,, is the sheep did something.

Most say they believe with their lips but their life proves they really do not believe