Protestants and Catholics

[B-A-C]

But can we talk with those who have passed on before us. Even in Scripture, the answer is yes.

Can you post this scripture?

Remember, our bodies are only the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The vessel is only a container of who we really are.

Well, we aren't the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is talking about us , the trinity we were created to be. Scripture says, we were created in the image of God.

It says Adam was. It says the rest us have to be conformed to the image of God.

Made in the Image of God?

You often hear some Christians say we are made in the image of God. But are we? Gen 1:27; God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Well there we are, it says we are created in God's image right here. Is that really what it says...

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Jesus talks with Moses and Elijah. And Jesus calls Lazarus back from the beyond.

Elijah never died. Jesus didn't talk to Lazarus while he was dead.

You didn't mention Saul and the witch of Endor.

1Sam 28:11; Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
1Sam 28:12; When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul."
1Sam 28:13; The king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a divine being coming up out of the earth."
1Sam 28:14; He said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage.
1Sam 28:15; Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me, and God has departed from me and no longer answers me, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do."

1Sam 28:16; Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has departed from you and has become your adversary?

Isa 8:19; When they say to you, "Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter," should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?

 

[B-A-C]

It is not found in the Bible. And Jesus never says it cant be used. Little bit of a stalemate.

Who does the Bible say is the head of the global church?

Eph 5:23; For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

Psa 118:8; It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man. (This is the middle verse of the entire Bible)

 

[B-A-C]

If we condemn the Catholics for scriptural errors, why do the Methodist get a pass. They have clearly violated the Bible by neutering God ( again i dont know if this is all the Methodist church, or a progressive branch )

Agreed there are some Protestant denominations that have strayed pretty far. But not all of them. So do two wrongs make a right?
They're doing it wrong - so I guess I will too. - There's a Godly attitude.

 

[B-A-C]

Answer me one question, was Judas Iscariot name written in heaven?

The Bible doesn't specifically mention him by name as written in Heaven. But Jesus does say the 70 disciples had their names written.
It says later that they left Him. Also there are at least places the Bible says your name can be removed from the Book of Life.
So even if his name was specifically mentioned, what would it prove?

Rev 3:5; 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Exod 32:32; "But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
Exod 32:33; The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Deut 29:20; "The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse which is written in this book will rest on him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Answer me one question, was Judas Iscariot name written in heaven?

When one topic goes against the grain for you Bill, you change tact.

Let me put it to you, you have not accepted very much of what I have said, or what others have said on here, so let me ask you to tell us...

Was Judas Iscariot name written in heaven?

 

[Brother-Paul]

Alright , so Bro Paul and i hashed out this buisness of the Pope title.

It is not found in the Bible. And Jesus never says it cant be used. Little bit of a stalemate.

Are you going to hash out the cardinals as well, they are not in the Bible.

If you think because Jesus didn't say anything about something it is right, your thinking is no better than the LGBTQ.

All of God's Word reveals the Truth, sufficient for all generations, not to be added to or taken away, in print or in speech.

Your stalemate comments says to me, hello Bill is playing silly games again.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Bro Pauls old church had the Ten Commandments posted on the wall, evidently not written in Hebrew. And as anyone who knows Hebrew, not everything in it can translate to English. We just dont have the correct grammer for it. I guess the question is, if we can not get the correct translation, are we all in error ?

What you are saying is only half true Bill.

I agree there are words in Greek and Hebrew that are not in the English language, I have commented numerous times on that topic.

But the 10 Commandment changes are not 'grammatical' errors, nor are they translational errors, they are changes done by the RCC, because they were frustrated with the issues of idol worship. Instead of removing their errors they deliberately changed the 10 Commandments, in numerous areas as you see, but the most obvious was to remove 'idol worship'

 

[Brother-Paul]

If we condemn the Catholics for scriptural errors, why do the Methodist get a pass. They have clearly violated the Bible by neutering God ( again i dont know if this is all the Methodist church, or a progressive branch

The reason catholic are mentioned is because you raised the topic of catholic's and protestants Bill.

I am not 'a member' of any denomination, I will not be 'a member' of a denomination. It doesn't mean I won't go to a place of worship, a place of prayer and fellowship, but I will not be a member of a denomination. Why, because I am a member of the Body of Christ, the ekklesia, the one true church.

Now I know there are many will say, I should be part of a church, but I am, the ekklesia, that is the church our Lord talks about all the time in the NT, also note, it is the one He will be returning to.

Let us go a little deeper Bill. Allow me to ask you 'What is a church?'

Based on your past posts you would no doubt say, catholic, protestant, methodist, baptist, or as you mentions some posts back, this free church or that free church, each one going their own way, not joined. Again as you mention Bill, they should all put their differences aside and come together as one, you said that Yes? Now that is admirable of you Bill, a lovely thought, a good thought, but to put differences to one side and come together there has to be changes, give and take is it not, but the catholics aint going to change their ways, they say they are the largest Christian Church in the world, in worldly terms I would say, maybe they are the largest Religious group in the world, but they are not the largest church in the world and I can guarantee you that.

Firstly, the catholics counts it's members, to get married in a catholic church both man and woman have to be catholic, if they are not, they have to become members to have a marriage service. It is the same with Christening, so every time these items come up, a person has to say they have become a member of the catholic church, regardless of what they believe. So in effect their numbers grow as members.

So let us look at 'What is a church', according to scripture.

According to scripture there is only one word for church, it is in the NT, the word is ekklesia.

According to custom today, a building is a church, the congregation in every building is a church.

Are these statements true according to scripture Bill, No!

Lets look at the building called a church first. It was the RCC that introduced a Greek work for the building, the place of worship, as a church. They used the Greek word 'kuriakon'.

Note, the word kuriakon IS NOT anywhere in scripture, it was added by the RCC to call the building a church. This is where the RCC created the confusion we see today. The building as a place of prayer and worship IS NOT a church according to scripture, it is a church if we accept the introduction of a word by the RCC, that IS NOT in scripture.

So having clarified the building is not a church, based on scripture, let us look at what a church really is, according to scripture. Is the congregation a church, yes or no. That is the exact answer not a question. The church is not the congregation, it is only the saved souls, the ones born again from above, the washed and spiritually regenerated ones. John 3:1-21 & 1 Peter 3:21 to mention just two sections from scripture.

The ekklesia, our Lord talks about, the ekklesia, the one our Lord will Return in Glory for, is the Body of truly saved souls as mentioned from the scriptures above. Jesus makes it very clear.

It is not wrong Bill, for you to want denominations to come together and put aside their differences, your intentions are honourable, the question is, will ALL denominations, I single none out, will ALL denominations, put aside their none scripture based beliefs and follow The Word to the 'T'? I think not. But we do not need to be concerned, pray for them all yes, but we do not need to be concerned. Why do I say that? Because the ekklesia, the Body of Christ, that will become the Bride of Christ, the one our Lord will return for is already 'intact'. PTL.

All who are born again from above, all who are washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit are his, One Body, One Church, no denominations, no walls except the spirit stones being built into his Body, the ekklesia.

Forget denominational differences Bill, just pray for salvation for all lost souls, just pray that all who go to church (kuriakon) and think they are saved, just pray for all in the congregations whoi are not born again from above to repent, accept Jesus and become part of His Body, the ekklesia, the one True Church

 

[Brother-Paul]

Prayer , what is prayer ? The first thing that comes to mind, to have a conversation with God.

Through Jesus Christ our Lord Bill, not through Mary or any other.

But can we talk with those who have passed on before us. Even in Scripture, the answer is yes.

Quote scripture to back up your thoughts please Bill, also confirm, are you talking about Lost or Saved souls, as according to God's Holy Word?

Remember, our bodies are only the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The vessel is only a container of who we really are.

Only when we are born again from above and are washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus tells us, Love God with all your mind, Love God with all your heart, Love God with all your spirit, Love God with all your strength.

Jesus is talking about us , the trinity we were created to be. Scripture says, we were created in the image of God.

We are not the Trinity Bill, God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the Trinity

Jesus said, 'if you have seen me you have seen the Father', and 'we are created in His image.'

Created in His image does not mean we are the Trinity, only that we are created in the image of Him, Jesus.

God is... omnipotence, omnipresent, omniscience. That is the power within the Trinity, we are his creations, made in his image, not made as him.

 

[Brother-Paul]

You really sink your own ship when it comes to this Scripture . About not one dot is to be changed.

What of the Seven books removed from the scriptures also known as the Apocrypha.

By what right and who's authority were they removed?

These books are also the inspired Word of God.

This would require another thread Bill.

Far to much to talk about, except to say, the Catholics chose not to use the books until the 1500's then they decided to reintroduced them, before Luther removed them.

Why were they removed, the apocrypha were not books of the canon but rather books of the church. Understandably, there is a lot of rubbish in them.

Enough said, no further replies in this thread.

 

[B-A-C]

Far to much to talk about, except to say, the Catholics chose not to use the books until the 1500's then they decided to reintroduced them, before Luther removed them.

There is a thread about this.

What do we know about how the Bible came to be,.

Hoping to have a discussion about the Book part of Scripture. Most all of us here are Christian so we believe the Bible to be the Word of God. Inspired writings Most here will say we have 66 books . How did these come to be? What languages were they first written in? Having read form post...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[Brother-Paul]

Excellent thread brother, thank you for sharing.

There are not many threads we can say worth reading all posts.

A very detailed and comprehensive account.

Bless you

 

[Butch5]

The part that is considered, infallible, goes back to Jesus telling Peter , what you allow on earth will be allowed in heaven ( paraphasing )

In the Catholic church , they trace thier lineage back to Peter, being the First Pope.

( an interesting fact . When builders were working on the church at St Peters, in the Vatican. They were digging under the building to shore up the foundation. While doing this they discovered a tomb. Doctors were called in to look at the body. Based on what was found. They determined it was the body of Peter. The doctors stated, the person had been crucified upside down. There was other evidence that gave proof to the same conclusion. --- to me , the thing i find most interesting. Where the body was found, directly under the alter at St Peters church. [ Jesus called Peter Rock " and upon this rock i will build my church ])

Just something to think about.

Hi Bill,

They may say they trace their lineage back to Peter, but that isn't possible. Records were destroyed.

 

[Bill]

When one topic goes against the grain for you Bill, you change tact.

Let me put it to you, you have not accepted very much of what I have said, or what others have said on here, so let me ask you to tell us...

Was Judas Iscariot name written in heaven?

Yes

 

[Bill]

Hi Bill,

They may say they trace their lineage back to Peter, but that isn't possible. Records were destroyed.

There is a series of books called " the sunday sermons of the founding fathers" these were all sermons that were hand written and passed on till the printting press came along, i suggest reading them

 

[Bill]

Through Jesus Christ our Lord Bill, not through Mary or any other.




Quote scripture to back up your thoughts please Bill, also confirm, are you talking about Lost or Saved souls, as according to God's Holy Word?




Only when we are born again from above and are washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.




We are not the Trinity Bill, God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the Trinity

Jesus said, 'if you have seen me you have seen the Father', and 'we are created in His image.'

Created in His image does not mean we are the Trinity, only that we are created in the image of Him, Jesus.

God is... omnipotence, omnipresent, omniscience. That is the power within the Trinity, we are his creations, made in his image, not made as him.

I know im not as articulate as some, but you are just not hearing what i am saying . Almost every point i brought up that you quote , your answers are way off .

 

[Bill]

This would require another thread Bill.

Far to much to talk about, except to say, the Catholics chose not to use the books until the 1500's then they decided to reintroduced them, before Luther removed them.

Why were they removed, the apocrypha were not books of the canon but rather books of the church. Understandably, there is a lot of rubbish in them.

Enough said, no further replies in this thread.

Luther was a man, who was he to remove books from the scripture.

If you try saying he was saintly , there is nothing further from the truth. He was as corrupt as the Hierarchy of the CC at that time.

Luther was a Catholic Priest , he swore vows to God, as well as the church becoming a priest. I dont care about the vows to the church getting broken , but the Vows to God are another deal. I hope you take your marriage vows seriously. I know i do. Even if i quit the church i go to, my vows to God are still binding.

Just because Luther quit the hated catholic church , does not allow him the luxury of tossing away any oaths to God.

 

[Bill]

This would require another thread Bill.

Far to much to talk about, except to say, the Catholics chose not to use the books until the 1500's then they decided to reintroduced them, before Luther removed them.

Why were they removed, the apocrypha were not books of the canon but rather books of the church. Understandably, there is a lot of rubbish in them.

Enough said, no further replies in this thread.

The Catholics did not run the church in the beginning. And those books were accepted before the RCC was established.

 

[Brad Huber]

The catholic selections for leader (pope) has always been through vote of the cardinals, they still do it today, and if I understand a lot of you protestants, you think the popes are being said as the distant seed of Peter. Like children of children of children and so on. Thats not the case to the best of my knowledge. They believe that an increased power of spirit is given through laying on of hands to someone who is to be pope. And the powers that reside in the leader of the catholics is greater than others in the faith, ergo like Peter. Like the authority and power of Peter, not of the lineage of Peter. Thats not unlike examples of the old testament, like giving blessing of greater power to someone as they are soon to expire from this world (like Elijah to Elisha). Not sure where the division on the title of pope as the leader of the RCC, just on his infalibility, now that I disgree with (infalibility of the pope).

 

[Born Again 2004]

I guess all that matters, is being a Believer!

All else is really meaningless.

God will determine that and all else in the end!