Faith or works or both?

[KingJ]

It has nothing to do with Christianity, except it was Christ who those parables. It has everything to do with Christianity.
"Joy" -- You think being a Christian is about your Joy?

Why would anyone think that something Jesus said has nothing to do with Christianity?

Jesus told Peter to walk on water. Do Christians get together and walk on water?

Everything Jesus said was ''prior'' to the cross. The OT and the gospels need to be read by looking 'through' the cross.

A Christian ''has'' dedicated their ''all'' to God. That is why they have received faith from God to believe a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is in fact Lord, God of the universe.

We have gone from worker to bride. No / old covenant to new covenant. Not grafted in, to grafted in. Gentile, to child of God. A worker is dismissed if they do not do their work. Imagine telling your wife, ''honey, I want a divorce as you did not do the ironing. I throw out the wicked and lazy... servant'' Cough cough.

 

[Born Again 2004]

To "get" us saved initially... yes. To "keep" us saved. No. The "no works required" is a doctrine of demons.

Works, other than those of God, are the " Doctrines of Demons"...initial salvation is the work of God only and none of you. He loved you before you loved him and He chose you first and not the other way around!

 

[Sue D.]

To "get" us saved initially... yes. To "keep" us saved. No. The "no works required" is a doctrine of demons.

God Does have a 'job' for believers. He leads us through the Holy Spirit as well as other avenues as to what and where He wants us to do His will. And, as a believer, we'll Want to be in His Word and reading and following it. He leads people to do all sorts of things. But those things we feel led to do are Not to be seen as 'works' to Keep us saved. That would be the same as doing good works in the first place. that's saying that the cross isn't really completely sufficient. That the Holy Spirit isn't Really capable of keeping our soul 'safe' until we're with Christ.

If / when we would say no to something God is leading us To do -- we'll be loosing or not getting crowns that we Could have gotten. Many years ago there was an older man who was a grandfather. Years Before That, he had felt led to be involved in a prison ministry. He said no to that. but God didn't forget His plan for the guys life. All those years later, he was accused Wrongfully of acting inappropriately with a granddaughter by his own daughter. there was no way he could prove his innocents even though he and everyone else who knew him, knew he wasn't guilty. He was found guilty and sentenced to a couple of years in prison. Well -- he remembered the 'calling' he had disregarded back then. So -- Then - he was going behind bars and ministering to other inmates,.

God is going to use whomever to do His business.

 

[Hekuran]

Why does God save sinful humans?

Part of the answer is 'so we can do good works'.

Here's what Paul says in ephesians 2. Note God's purpose stated very clearly in the last line. Paul is much more balanced than many of us who claim to preach Paul.


But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

At the heart of this problem, I believe, is that most of us have an understanding of the gospel that is different to the Bible's teaching.

We commonly think that the essential gospel message is 'Jesus saves'. But the new testament gospel message is 'Jesus is Lord'.

 

[Chad]

Should we follow the commandments of Christ or just believe that He died for us?

If He commanded, don't you think we should obey them? That's why He gave us commandments. For our own good.

 

[Sue D.]

Following the commandments or believing that He died for us is Great. But it doesn't 'save' anyone. Heart acceptance Does.

He Does give us His guidelines for our own good, yes. And that is for After our salvation.

And we obey His Word because as a believer we Want to.

 

[Theo102]

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:17

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakuk 2:4-5

 

[Bill]

Does the fact that we want to follow the commandments of Christ prove that we love Jesus?

If you want to belong to a country you fallow its laws.

When we love God and follow , we also want to learn about what He says . And in learning about God love Him more

 

[Bill]

Talking about works . The word has been thrown around for centuries.

Works is not digging a hole or building a house . Works is Christ working through you. It is compassion for others. It is God, who is Love.

Paul states, faith without love is like a gong clanging in the wind.

A great example of this "works" or compassion is seen by the thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus.

If you read the text carefully you will see the thiefs compassion for Jesus when he talks to the other thief. Not only did the thief show faith , but compassion .

Again the words of Paul , faith without love is a gong clanging in the wind.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Yes. Once saved, a natural fruit of the Spirit is to love God, thirst for the Bible and a wanting to obey all commandments!

 

[Born Again 2004]

Faith and Works is of God, all else we can boast in ourselves!

 

[Brother-Paul]

Interesting question my friend
Look at thingsin the correct order.

- God calls us we do not call Him
- We accept His call when we come to Jesus
- We come to Jesus through the Cross in which He sacrificed His life for us on.
- It is through the cross and His blood that we can be saved, because He died for ur sins, shed His blood for us, on that cross.
- We realise we are sinners, we repent from the bottom of our heart, we accept Jesus into our hearts and abide in Him

You ask, should we follow His Commandments, I tell you the truth, if Jesus is in your heart you want to follow His Commandments, therefore there is no longer a question to ask.

If we on the other hand just believe He died for us on the cross, we are still lost in sin. For we have not accepted God's One and Only Son into our hearts.

We must be born again, salvation only comes through Jesus.

As @Bendito put above
..
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commands;

We don't need to think about it or ask about it, when Jesus is in us and us in Him, we automatically want to keep His Commandments.

Bless you

 

[Curtis]

If Jesus Christ is "in" then you will "know" these things, and do them, because Jesus has become your new life.

1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.

1Jn 3:18 Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
1Jn 3:19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him;

1Jn 4:6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

1Jn 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.

1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1Jn 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
1Jn 5:19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

 

[Sue D.]

Talking about works . The word has been thrown around for centuries.

Works is not digging a hole or building a house . Works is Christ working through you. It is compassion for others. It is God, who is Love.

Paul states, faith without love is like a gong clanging in the wind.

A great example of this "works" or compassion is seen by the thief hanging on the cross next to Jesus.

If you read the text carefully you will see the thiefs compassion for Jesus when he talks to the other thief. Not only did the thief show faith , but compassion .

Again the words of Paul , faith without love is a gong clanging in the wind.

Bill -- Ephesians 2: 8 - 9 ".......Not of works, lest any one should boast......" "Works" is Anything a person puts along With the cross of Christ. -- ie - digging a hole or building a house, or going to a nursing home every week -- or joining a church -- or going to mass every week. All those things -- IF being put along With the cross of Christ to insure our salvation, Would be a 'work'. And it sounds like you're using the word "works" in two different ways. It's the Holy Spirit 'working' through a person. And it's Jesus Christ who died on the cross and shed His blood For us.

The word "charity" is used to mean "love".

And, yes, 'faith' without 'works' is dead. A believers' faith is seen Through what they are doing .

 

[Bill]

I think the issue of works , or Gods wirk through us is so misunderstood . Because so many are under the impression that once saved , there is nothing more for us to do.

It has nothing to do with earning heaven, but doing the will of God. Scripture states , " fan into a flame " and the one who recieved the talents was already a servant. But the servant that buries his gift of salvation waistes it . We are not called to be idle . We are called to Love. And love takes effort. Compassion for others takes effort.

What would have happened if that thief on the cross stayed quiet

 

[Sue D.]

Salvation is the Beginning of the Christian life. And God Does have a plan for each of our lives. He has given us all different personalities / interests. And, yes, it IS up to the individual as to what they Do with their lives. God Does lead but usually doesn't Force.

Love, yes. But there's more than That. A person Can simply go around saying "I Love you'' to everyone and not do another thing. And maybe those people Did need to hear someone say "I love you" to them. But How is it being said. Grudgingly or with a smile.

 

[Curtis]

Jesus said.....

Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Our "work" is to believe, and God's work is to work through the believer!

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Curtis]

Anybody can have "works" without faith, but nobody can have faith without works.!

 

[Bill]

Anybody can have "works" without faith, but nobody can have faith without works.!

Yes .

 

[Bill]

Salvation is the Beginning of the Christian life. And God Does have a plan for each of our lives. He has given us all different personalities / interests. And, yes, it IS up to the individual as to what they Do with their lives. God Does lead but usually doesn't Force.

Love, yes. But there's more than That. A person Can simply go around saying "I Love you'' to everyone and not do another thing. And maybe those people Did need to hear someone say "I love you" to them. But How is it being said. Grudgingly or with a smile.

Sue , the word "works " is not something we do on our own, it is God inspired. The thief on the cross was inspired by God to say what he did . However , he could have chosen to say nothing . And if he burried the "talends" of that moment he would not be in paridise.

He was given a measure of talends and look what fruit he produced. So much so his words are in scripture , the very Words that Christ put in him to speak.

Why do i say that Christ put in him. Because the Bible is Jesus . (The Word became flesh. John 1 )