Is it faith alone??

[David777]

A simple explanation Jari, well done.


38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
2 Timothy 3

15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are
able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[brakelite]

Jari and David....you both missed the point. I agree with you that the field is the world; I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The point I was making was that there is a judgment before the second coming....it is a judgment based on works, not on belief....and it decides who is saved and who is not.
When Jesus says He has His rewards with Him when He comes, He isn't talking about rewards for being a good boy and saving so many souls...the reward that He brings is eternal life. Other rewards come later. The issue to be dealt with in judgment first and foremost is this....who is saved and who is not? This is the issue of the sheep and goats...this judgment must take place before the second coming....and again I say, it is based on our response of obedience to God's commandments. Our works. Our love, which by the way as has been described previously, is an action word, a verb, not a noun.

 

[NetChaplain]

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified" (Jam 2:24). Works is an evidence of faith, neither of which justifies, because it's what the faith is in that justifies. It is the imputed, not imparted righteousness (works) of Christ that justifies men. Faith allows one to appropriate justification.

"Not as causes procuring his justification, but as effects declaring it; for the best works are imperfect, and cannot be a righteousness justifying in the sight of God, and are unprofitable in this respect. For when they are performed in the best manner, they are no other than what it is a man's duty to perform, and therefore cannot justify from sin he has committed: and besides, justification in this sense would frustrate the grace of God, make void the death of Christ and encourage boasting in men. Good works do not go before justification as causes or conditions, but follow it as fruits and effects" -J Gill

 

[jason h]

If someone were to ask you, "why are you going to heaven?" how would you answer? If you find yourself with racing thoughts of "well, ive been baptized" or "I try to do the best job I know how" or even "I go to church and read my bible", then your not resting on Christ.

When one finally sees that Christ fullfilled the law, as did I, then that burden of law keeping fell off. Now that I see the gospel, it drives me to want to tell others. To live in such a way as to force someone to ask questions. But even this is only because the Spirit enables me to do so. So I cant use my works in any way to justify me because they're not my works. God provided me with the Spirit, by His grace while I was still a sinner, and the works from that enabling are His. They do not make me righteous before him. Christ is my righteousness.

Jehovah Tsidkenu - The Lord our righteousness

There's also another point to consider. I recall when I was younger and would hear someone preaching about grace alone, I would think they were advocating a 'do want you want gospel'. I realize now that the carnality of my mind heard them preach 'do what you want' but they didnt actually say that at all.

 

[David777]

Hello brakelite.

Your replies are welcome as all opinions whether they
be correct or incorrect.

You made the point;

"Therefore we are judged on the basis of our works,
and this judgment determines our eternal destiny."

Our eternal destiny is determined by God not us.

God's plan was to reconcile us to Him through
the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ.

When you believe in Jesus Christ your destiny is
sealed when you receive the Holy Spirit. At this
moment is the transformation from goat to sheep.
From tare to wheat.

Now the proof from the scripture!

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes,
resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Unless of course that "salvation" does not correlate with
eternal destiny.

Please explain brakelite your understanding of Romans 10:9
and offer your interpretation of salvation in the above passage.

 

[NetChaplain]

I really like what you posted Jason, esp. "So I can’t use my works in any way to justify me because they're not my works,"

Concerning Christ fulfilling the Law, it was for the sole purpose of qualifying Himself as the only spotless, sinless sacrifice. Some have attributed this as vicariously keeping the Law for Israel, but there is no scripture indicating that His perfect obedience was laid to anyone's account. He bore the curse of the Law for Israel so they could be free from the guilt of it and thus, procuring justification by His righteousness.

I just posted an article which directly relates to this issue. Hope it's not too much!

 

[Christ4Ever]

Peace Brother!
Had a little time to look at part one! Now on to some comments.

No, I don't think so, because judgment will be about works, not salvation. Do you agree that our works will be judged and if they are burned up we will suffer loss, nonetheless we will be saved? (1 Corinthians 3:15)

Agreed. However, can one be removed from the Book of Life? Revelation 3:5: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." I've highlighted the word that makes this conditional; "overcometh". Which is not about works, but about ones faithfulness in holding fast to the truth of Jesus Christ. Further, Jesus talking "I will not blot out his name out of the book of life". I take this to mean that a person can be taken out of the book of life. So this would allow for someone to walk away from the faith and thereby ones salvation. I or you might never see the condition in which this might happen, because we don't see it as a possibility in our lives (I pray for our continued faithfulness in Him.), but it doesn't mean that it will not happen or has not happened to someone. Mention of this happens also in Psalm 69:28 "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.". So by these verses one can be removed from the Book of Life. As you can see this has nothing to do with any specific works, yet it is still salvation lost or tossed aside.

We can deal with the area of righteousness in respect to salvation and what the death of our Lord did for us in this area, but overall the rest of one is well done brother. I do appreciate the time and effort you've taken in doing this. Thank-you!

Now to digest number 2!!!!!!!
YBIC
C4E

 

[Peace Seeker]

We are talking about someone who is saved of cause. Were the ones that were spoken of in Titus saved? I've never been of the belief that someone can lose their salvation, however with caveats I would add "I do believe that one can walk away". Which begs the question again. Were they saved in the first place?

Hi, brother!

Yes, that - was the person ever saved in the first place - is the $64,000 question, isn't it? I don't believe a saved person can lose his salvation, and I have no added caveats to that (like your, "we can choose to walk away"). If I can choose to walk away, does that then mean that God would un-inscribe me from the palm of His hand? A believer is not just in His hand, but engraved upon it! (Isaiah 49:16)

I think another verse that speaks to your caveat is 1 John 2:19 :

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us".

This tells me that those who walk away are in reality not really walking away from anything, 'cause they never had it. If they had had it they would have stayed. Which brings us back to the begging the question part you mentioned.

Now, regarding Titus and your question as to their salvation, I'm going to brainstorm this one as I type. Here's the text again, with my answers in brackets :

10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: (the circumcision - and their proselytes - are those who wanted to join the law of Moses to the gospel of Christ, insisting on circumcision and the observance of other ceremonies of the law as being necessary to justification and salvation. So on the basis of this I would say they were not saved, because they were not trusting in salvation by grace through faith, denying that the New Covenant was enough).

11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. (whatever they were teaching, it wasn't the good news of the gospel message! Paul says let anyone who preaches another gospel be anathema)
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. (the people Paul is addressing here - the circumcision and their fellow legalists - whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, are called defiled and unbelieving)
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. ("in works they deny him" : what works, if not their works of adding law to grace? For them grace wasn't enough, they thought they must add circumcision and a bunch of other O.T. stuff. When they added to Christ's perfect and complete atonement, such works denied Him, their profession notwithstanding).

See what I mean? Until that day, or until we can look into the heart of person, we will not know a persons future of Eternal Life or Eternal Damnation. I can say it, believe it, works reflect it, but can another say I am or I am not? So I treat each person with the Love that Christ has placed in me, regardless of the answer, because the reality of it is, that I don't know as a surety that it's yes or no for anyone but myself and that I do with trembling, yet trusting in His Word and His promises therein.

Absolutely! God knows His own, and while we can guess at people's salvation based on their fruit, only God knows the root of their faith. Are there withered plants in God's garden? I believe so. Are there sickly and bent over plants, that no one would want and would think are ugly and worthless? I believe so.
But God is not like us and will not break a bruised reed, or snuff out a smoldering wick. (Isaiah 42:3). He is a good Gardener that loves all the plants in His garden, the ugly and the beautiful, and He will faithfully water and restore all that are His. What we may sanctimoniuoulsy refer to as a "phony Christian" that is unsaved, could very well simply be someone that God is still repairing - bent reeds and smoldering wicks that take more work and care from Him than the healthier plants. So yeah, that's my long-winded way of saying I agree with you about not judging another's salvation, that we can't see in to their hearts, nor do we know what God is seeing in, and doing in them.

On that note, I will just add I think it can be a disservice when some people self-righteously point their finger at others, with the sentiment that they're not Christians because they aren't doing "X,Y&Z". Rather than added fear and doubt cast upon them regarding their salvation (especially in the case of babes in Christ), perhaps these people need to be reassured of Christ's faithfulness to them and strengthened in their faith, instead of being told they are a false Christian (or whatever similar sentiment) unless they do more than simply believe and trust in Him. Just thinking out loud here on the fly and not directing my comments at you personally, just in general towards the prevalent idea that works matter regarding salvation.

Would love to read it all tonight, but just got back from Church and have long, long, day tomorrow Lord willing tomorrow will provide me more time to look over what you've taken time to write in THREE PARTS no less!!!!

Just had to drop this line off brother.
YBIC
C4E

I am quite busy as well, so I will get this one posted and then continue to what I see is another response from you. God bless, brother!

 

[Peace Seeker]

Peace Brother!
Agreed. However, can one be removed from the Book of Life? Revelation 3:5: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Hi again, brother! Thanks for your responses! I'll try to be more succinct this time around but don't count on it! , as it is not my wish to take up people's valuable time with such verbose responses. It's so much easier to verbally say a thought than type out, at least for me anyway.

Now, about Revelation 3:5, first we need to get an understanding of what an over-comer is before we proceed to this blotting out business. John gives us a hint in 1 John 5:4-5, where he writes :

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


The word, "over-comer" is a descriptive title for a Christian who has believed upon Jesus as the Son of God. Therefore, a person who is a Christian is an over-comer, and vice versa. And who is it that is clothed in white, but believers, clothed in Christ's righteousness in exchange for their formerly black and filthy rags?

So, I don't think the statement about being blotted out means a Christian can be, it is simply using a negative to affirm a positive, that believers ARE over-comers, clothed in white, therefore they cannot be blotted out. Over-coming, then, is an identifier or distinguishing trait of those that are truly saved. Faith and overcoming go hand in hand, so Revelation 3:5 is a promise of security to God's people, not a threat of judgment for not faithfully abiding.

A similar sentiment to that of Rev 3:5 I could make to my wife would be, "I will never divorce you as long as you don't cheat on me". Well, that statement, as well as the one in REV 3 both beg the question, in that faithful spouses don't cheat and faithful Christians overcome. Christians overcome, faithful spouses don't cheat. So if I was to say that Rev3:5 teaches that Christians can be blotted out of the book of life, I would also have to say that faithful wives can cheat. I'm not sure if that's the best analogy, but I know what I am trying to convey, hopefully with a modicum of sense to it. :embarasse

I've highlighted the word that makes this conditional; "overcometh". Which is not about works, but about ones faithfulness in holding fast to the truth of Jesus Christ. Further, Jesus talking "I will not blot out his name out of the book of life". I take this to mean that a person can be taken out of the book of life. So this would allow for someone to walk away from the faith and thereby ones salvation. I or you might never see the condition in which this might happen, because we don't see it as a possibility in our lives (I pray for our continued faithfulness in Him.), but it doesn't mean that it will not happen or has not happened to someone. Mention of this happens also in Psalm 69:28 "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.". So by these verses one can be removed from the Book of Life. As you can see this has nothing to do with any specific works, yet it is still salvation lost or tossed aside.

I think I answered this in my above explanation, but I will add some comments here. Forgive me if I am saying the same thing in different words, but I want to stress what I see as the message of the scripture in question. Rev 3:5 does not say that those who fail to overcome and fall away from Christ were written in the book and got erased/blotted out. In fact, Revelation 13:8 seems to teach the opposite, that to have your name written in the book means that you will most definitely persevere and overcome.

Revelation 13:8
“And all who dwell on the earth will worship [the beast], everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.”

(See also Rev. 13:8; 17:8; 20:15; 21:27).

One last point about "books", there are many such mentioned in the bible. There is the book of the living, namely, those who are presently alive on the earth, including the unsaved (Exod. 32:32-33; Deut. 29:20; Ps. 69:28; Isa. 4:3). There is also a book containing the names of the lost and their deeds (Rev. 20:12). There is a book with the names of the elect in it (Dan. 12:1; Rev. 13:8; 17:8; 20:15; 21:27). A fourth book evidently contains the names of faithful followers of the Lord (Mal. 3:16; Phil. 4:3; Heb. 12:23; Rev. 3:5).

And an obvious point to consider is, God doesn't need books to remember things, so the term, "book" (of life, etc.) is as much a descriptive device as it is literal.

Also, as can be seen in the O.T., blotted out of the book simply meant ‘to die’ (Exod 32:32-33; Ps 69:27-28; Isa 4:3). Whereas Christ gives His believers LIFE, and by and through His life - His life-giving Spirit - we are able to and will overcome.
Okay, my fingers are starting to stiffen up! So I'll leave it at that! God bless!

 

[bgsda]

In regards to reply #255.Rightly said Jari. Now one of the Biblicall meanings of sin as said very clearly in 1John 3:4 is "breaking Gods Law" other versions say "lawlessness". Please try this, it will clear things up, replace the word sin with its real meaning that we just saw in 1 John 3:4 . Put breaking Gods Law instead of sin. Try it.

 

[bgsda]

Ok I got a question Abraham is called the father of faith, so to speak, now if Abraham would have had only faith and not offered up Iassac or would have rationalized not killing Iassac would he have been called the father of faith, so to speak? Without works faith is DEAD

 

[brakelite]

Hi David.

Romans 10:9-11 is a wonderful promise. A promise we may take a hold of, believe in and trust in. God's word is sure and there is no lie in it. Believing in the heart initmates a closer relationship with Jesus than had Adam and Eve. His Spirit residing in us as we take a hold of Him by faith is an astonishing concept. Little wonder that David proclaimed, "What is man that thou art mindful of him, and the son of man that thou visitest him?"
Our salvation is assured as we believe and trust in Christ's atoning blood. No works can be added to this to improve it, it needs no improvement. It is full, it is complete, it is life changing, it is as sure as God's word itself.
The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, we repent and turn away from those things which bring death and pain and sorrow, we turn to Jesus Who recreates us aa a new creature; a new man accounted or imputed righteous in the courts of heaven, whose name is written in God's own hand, whose eternal destiny is to be with Him forever. A new man fully justified by the atonement laid down at Calvary. That's step one.

Step two. Being fully justified by His grace and loving sarifice, what then? We surrender our lives to Him and He works in us His regenerating power and we grow in grace and love. Our habits change; we begin to hate the things we once loved, and love the things we once hated. We respond with such love that we desire Him constantly. We follow Him wherever He leads, we obey Him in all things, we allow Him access into the deepest and remotest parts of our lives to root out the hidden sin and evil propensities that we may live holy sanctified lives. The imputed righteousness becomes an imparted righteousness. We are changed into the very image of our Creator. His character becomes our character. As we draw nearer to Him and daily confess the death of the old man, we grow from glory to glory, glorifying God in our lives as we show forth the fruits of a loving and intimate relationship that will endure for all eternity.

We look forward to His soon coming with confidence. Not a confidence based on our works, but a confidence based solely on His promises. We have a peace that endures hardship. We have a joy that deepens despite the sorrows of this world. We have a hope that overcomes fear. And we know that we have an all powerful, all knowing merciful God Who is head over heels in love with us and is determined to move heaven and earth if necessary to ensure we are with Him in paradise.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Ok I got a question Abraham is called the father of faith, so to speak, now if Abraham would have had only faith and not offered up Iassac or would have rationalized not killing Iassac would he have been called the father of faith, so to speak? Without works faith is DEAD

I think you answered your own question. As my pastor says, "Faith is spelled RISK."

SLE

 

[David777]

Hello brakelite.

Regarding your reply to Romans 10:9-11, your answer is correct.

Your reply was a forced reply, no other interpretation is possible.

Our salvation is assured as we believe and trust in Christ's atoning blood.
No works can be added to this to improve it, it needs no improvement.
It is full, it is complete, it is life changing, it is as sure as God's word itself.

This is the Gospel itself, no debate is acceptable.
"...for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and
with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
End of the debate, God has spoken, salvation is only available
through the Gospel.

 

[NetChaplain]

What Bgsda posted was a good example that draws out the point, which is either without the other is nonexistent; faith w/o works reveals no faith because faith will produce works. Conversely, works w/o faith reveals no works for "without faith it's impossible to please Him".

But always keep your eye on the potential twist; it's not that works gives life to faith because works do not produce faith - faith will produce works, so works are effect oriented and not a cause.

The crux of the matter is, if there's no faith, there's definitively no works. This is the design of "shew me thy faith without thy works"; which is a hyperbolic expression intending an impossibility; because "I will shew thee my faith by my works" (Jam 2:18).

 

[brakelite]

Hello brakelite.

Regarding your reply to Romans 10:9-11, your answer is correct.

Your reply was a forced reply, no other interpretation is possible.

Now that is an interesting response. You believe I was reluctant somehow and for some reason to admit that we are saved by grace? This isn't the first time I have declared my faith in the grace of God through the shed blood of Jesus. I think that if you take the time to search back over this thread alone you will discover several instances where I proclaimed this most wonderful of truths, even quoting my church's own fundamental beliefs in support. Did you not read them? Or was that on another thread you may have missed. Never mind; take note now. I am a believer in the atonement. Allow me to quote again Fundamental Belief #10.
10. Experience of Salvation:
In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

This is the Gospel itself, no debate is acceptable.
"...for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and
with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
End of the debate, God has spoken, salvation is only available
through the Gospel.

No, not quite David. I do agree that salvation is available only through the gospel, however, I may include in the gospel certain aspects that you exclude. For example. The gospel includes the recognition of a coming judgment.

Revelation 14:6 ¶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

I have made several references to this in recent posts, making the assertion that all must be judged, both sheep and goats, that this judgment is made on the evidence of works, and that our eternal destiny is decided on the evidence thus presented. This scenario does in no way alter the gospel truths of our redemption in Jesus. It is merely the mechanism that God has chosen to use to ascertain whether those gospel truths have taken root in the heart or not. The evidence of fruit is the way God has chosen to see if this is so. Thus the fruit, the works, the righteous life, the holy life, is an imperative to see us through the judgment, for it is those things that God is looking for as evidnece of a real, living, heartfelt, genuine faith. Otherwise, without those things, as sdabg so rightly quoted, faith is dead.

The question therefore remains as to how do we produce those fruit. The answer of course is we don't. Jesus does. So long as we abide in Him and maintain a vibrant relationship with Him the fruit will grow. It is a natural progression. We don't need to strive to obey God's commandments, we don't need to fret over how our performance is progressing, all we need do is continue to hunger and thirst for Him.

As mentioned elsewhere, the law is a schoolmaster to direct us to our Saviour. As we observe the law and see our shortcomings, we cling closer to our Master Who empowers us to overcome. This is growing in grace. It is all by faith, it is all by grace, and it is all through the shed blood of Jesus that makes it possible.

Sadly, many Christians today want the rewards but are unwilling to live the life of righteousness and holiness that God does require. God will not change a heart if the owner of said heart is unwilling to have Him change it. God imposes Himself on no-one. It is to him who hungers and thirsts for righteousness that will be filled. Such teaching I know is unpopular today. Very few are willing to give up their sinful selfish lifestyles. They claim Christ, they go to church every week, they may even witness to others. But if they are living lives contrary to sound doctrine and holy living their faith is dead, their worship meaningless, their devotions empty, their professions of faith hypocrisy.

 

[bgsda]

I like what you said net chaplain. Why say that faith will not produce works. I cant think of any person in the Bible that did not have faith with works. Now people want to say only faith. I would say that is very very dangerous.

Even the verse in Romans 10:9 -11 as David 777 stated first you have faith or believe then you show it thru your works by confessing with your mouth. Faith and works go hand in hand. GOD BLESS.

 

[NetChaplain]

I cant think of any person in the Bible that did not have faith with works. Now people want to say only faith.

Thanks Bgsda for your reply! The idea of faith is that it, us and even Scripture itself are just vessels and not the power. The power, which is God, uses everything and everyone (man and angels) as mediums of glorification.

 

[NetChaplain]

Romans 10:9-11 is a wonderful promise. A promise we may take a hold of, believe in and trust in. God's word is sure and there is no lie in it. Believing in the heart initmates a closer relationship with Jesus than had Adam and Eve. His Spirit residing in us as we take a hold of Him by faith is an astonishing concept. Little wonder that David proclaimed, "What is man that thou art mindful of him, and the son of man that thou visitest him?"
Our salvation is assured as we believe and trust in Christ's atoning blood. No works can be added to this to improve it, it needs no improvement. It is full, it is complete, it is life changing, it is as sure as God's word itself.
The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, we repent and turn away from those things which bring death and pain and sorrow, we turn to Jesus Who recreates us aa a new creature; a new man accounted or imputed righteous in the courts of heaven, whose name is written in God's own hand, whose eternal destiny is to be with Him forever. A new man fully justified by the atonement laid down at Calvary. That's step one.

Step two. Being fully justified by His grace and loving sarifice, what then? We surrender our lives to Him and He works in us His regenerating power and we grow in grace and love. Our habits change; we begin to hate the things we once loved, and love the things we once hated. We respond with such love that we desire Him constantly. We follow Him wherever He leads, we obey Him in all things, we allow Him access into the deepest and remotest parts of our lives to root out the hidden sin and evil propensities that we may live holy sanctified lives. The imputed righteousness becomes an imparted righteousness. We are changed into the very image of our Creator. His character becomes our character. As we draw nearer to Him and daily confess the death of the old man, we grow from glory to glory, glorifying God in our lives as we show forth the fruits of a loving and intimate relationship that will endure for all eternity.

We look forward to His soon coming with confidence. Not a confidence based on our works, but a confidence based solely on His promises. We have a peace that endures hardship. We have a joy that deepens despite the sorrows of this world. We have a hope that overcomes fear. And we know that we have an all powerful, all knowing merciful God Who is head over heels in love with us and is determined to move heaven and earth if necessary to ensure we are with Him in paradise.

Great encouragement and instruction!

 

[David777]

Hello brakelite.

You said, "No, not quite David. I do agree that salvation is available only through the gospel,
however, I may include in the gospel certain aspects that you exclude. For example. The
gospel includes the recognition of a coming judgment."

Negative brakelite, the Gospel does not include anything extra.
I will repeat myself, you cannot become a sheep unless you
believe and confess the Gospel. Once you become a sheep
and receive the Holy Spirit you are heaven bound. Your
statement is a contradictory statement. On the one hand you
agree with the Gospel, then you extend the Gospel beyond
that which is written.

John 10
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish;

You said, "I have made several references to this in recent posts, making the assertion that all must
be judged, both sheep and goats."

Negative brakelite, God seperates the sheep from the goats.
The judgement of the sheep is for the purpose of reward.
Judgement for the goats, those that reject the Gospel is
destruction.

Matthew 25
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

Sheep are those who believe the Good Shepard (Jesus).
Goats are those that ignore the Good Shepard, the Gospel.

You said, "The question therefore remains as to how do we produce those fruit. The answer of
course is we don't. Jesus does. So long as we abide in Him and maintain a vibrant
relationship with Him the fruit will grow. It is a natural progression. We don't need to
strive to obey God's commandments, we don't need to fret over how our performance is
progressing, all we need do is continue to hunger and thirst for Him."

Matthew 25
37...Lord, when did we see You hungry...?

Notice brakelite, that the person above was unaware
that he had in fact fed the hungry brother or sister. This
person was following the inner guidance of the Holy
Spirit and feeding the other sheep. When did we see
you hungry, thirsty, etc. It is never works as the flesh
understands works, it is bearing the fruit and the gifts
of the Holy Spirit.

Those who believe in Jesus (sheep) receive the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:11
...He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

A sheep by definition is defined by the Gospel.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Do you for one moment think that the judgement of God
will not be based purely on the manifestation of Love?
Love is a fruit of the Spirit, so it is logical that to receive
the Spirit one must believe the Gospel.

Kindness and love are the fruit of the Spirit, how could
a person feed his brother without kindness and love.

Time and time again, the Gospel is the source of
all understanding in the scripture.

"As mentioned elsewhere, the law is a schoolmaster to direct us to our Saviour. As we
observe the law and see our shortcomings, we cling closer to our Master Who empowers
us to overcome. This is growing in grace. It is all by faith, it is all by grace, and it is all
through the shed blood of Jesus that makes it possible."

Strongly disagree with this passage brakelite.

The law was the school master for the Jews, and this
law was only effective until the arrival of the Great
Sheperd.

We Gentiles do not see our wickedness through the Jewish law.
The law was given to the Jews and the Jews only.

1 Thessalonians 1:5
for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power
and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction;...

See brakelite, the Thessalonians were Gentiles.
These Thessalonians recieved the Gospel with
full conviction in the Holy Spirit. No where does
it state that they recieved Mosaic law.

1 Thessalonians 4
2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual
immorality. This is parallel to (Acts 15).
Abstain from sexual immorality is one of the commandments.
This commandment is not one of the ten. The use of "abstain"
not "thou shall not" should make this clear to you.

You said, "Sadly, many Christians today want the rewards but are unwilling to live the life of
righteousness and holiness that God does require. God will not change a heart if the
owner of said heart is unwilling to have Him change it. God imposes Himself on no-one.
It is to him who hungers and thirsts for righteousness that will be filled. Such teaching I
know is unpopular today. Very few are willing to give up their sinful selfish lifestyles.
They claim Christ, they go to church every week, they may even witness to others. But if
they are living lives contrary to sound doctrine and holy living their faith is dead, their
worship meaningless, their devotions empty, their professions of faith hypocrisy."

Yet again brakelite I must disagree with the prognosis.

It all comes down to the Gospel, if a person believes
and receives the Holy Spirit. Then that person will be
saved, they have become a sheep. Sheep listen to the
Master's voice, sheep follow the master.

If a person listens to the Gospel but does not accept
Jesus Christ and does not receive the Holy Spirit, then
said person is a hairy goat and produces the works of the
flesh.

It is not that we live a righteous life, it is that we
receive the righteousness of Christ. Our clothes
are white in Christ, in Him alone. All is from above
and I mean all. By faith alone, in Christ alone.