No Such Thing as Once Save Always Saved!

[Copper25]

Matthew 7


<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23332 value="15">15</SUP>Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23333 value="16">16</SUP>Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23334 value="17">17</SUP>Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23335 value="18">18</SUP>A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23336 value="19">19</SUP>Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23337 value="20">20</SUP>Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

I am going to say this, many people can call themselves Christians, but the evidence that manifest can prove what they really are.

Second

1 John 2

<SUP>18</SUP> Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
<SUP class=versenum id=en-ASV-30570 value="19">19</SUP> They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

No in this context, it is speaking about false prophets, but can't the very same thing be applied to people confessing Christian? Think about it.

Hebrews 12

<SUP>6</SUP> For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

<SUP class=versenum id=en-ASV-30220 value="7">7</SUP> It is for chastening that ye endure; God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father chasteneth not? <SUP class=versenum id=en-ASV-30221 value="8">8</SUP> But if ye are without chastening, whereof all have been made partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Proverbs 3

<SUP>11</SUP>My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-16468 value="12">12</SUP>For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Fankly, if you can wonder into darkness, into sinfulness and not be corrected by the Father, if you can just stay in sin all you want and never get convicted by the Holy Spirit, plainly, the love of the Father is not toward that person and they are not saved, nor were they. Why?

1 john 1:
<SUP>6</SUP>If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

<SUP>7</SUP>But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Guess who does not abide in the truth also, satan.

John 8:44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Now look again at 1 john 1:6, and ask this question, can one be abiding in truth, yet not be doing it?

Can a child of light, which every true child of God is, walk in darkness?

We may make mistakes at times, but certainly, God does not let His children play in the darkness, but rather diciplines them and keeps them in the light.

 

[Trisha]

So if they "push God out of their lives" I would think they lost salvation. This post I made wasn't about me but was about the topic. Just stated what I experienced to make a point. She was a Christian, very devoted, but sin got her. So to me she is lost again. So once saved always saved didn't hold up. And also the Romans passage I mentioned kind of wraps it up for me.

Thanks for your kindness Joe.

PS. If we can know someone wasn't saved in the first place, we can know if they were also. Guess I will leave this all up to God. I do not feel insecure about my own salvation just because I don't believe in once saved always saved. I have made a no turning back commitment when I came to Christ so always go back to that and repent of any sin committed. My motives are NOT to sin, so mine would be unintentional or unwilful sin. Intentional, wilful sin that is unrelenting, producing no sorrow over it, means turning away from God.

 

[spirit1st]

WE are CAlled , Tested and tried ! Then if willing to follow Only HIM?
Made a New Creature with His Mind and nature As He was at His beginning in the flesh! We cannot sin ,nor would!
we can have full faith in HIm to carry us though!

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Its All about our Spirit and our spirit cannot be seen in the natural and it wants nothing of this world once Bor -Again!
it has no use for sex or money or anything of this world! It longs to serve its Father God!

the outward mind is where all our problems are! the inward mind is perfect!but at salvation needs to be fed to grow and mature to be like our Lord !

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 

[spirit1st]

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

HERE is our Problem ? Our Spirit born of God is subject to our Flesh mind!

1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Sin Never again touches our Spirit , But the flesh can suffer and even die early in life for sins! God will punish us for sin!
But He has provided Everything for us to be true overcomers and More than conquerors! He does Not lose parts of His body!

We are No longer of this world , Our natural home Now is New Jerusalem , of course the body we are trapped in is part of the earth !We are NOT!

 

[spirit1st]

This scripture tells us three things?
One
WE have the first fruits of the Holy Spirit in our Spirit!
2- Our Spirit Hates being in these sinfilled bodies
3-It wants to be in its new body!

This scripture tells us we have the fruit of the spirit and eternal life!

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

This scripture tells us ? Our spirit cannot be corrupted and corruption only comes from SIN! And that we cannot lose our place in heaven [New Jerusalem]

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved
in heaven for you,


This Scripture again tells us the gift of salvation is a perfect gift and cannot be lost or tainted!

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Only sin can taint!

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
meaning our Spirit does not want to do evil but our outward mind does at times and our Spirit hates that evil!

It is very important to understand salvation and what HE did for us there! We are the mighty body of Jesus Christ ! With Great Power though His mighty name !
We have the CREATORS Own Spirit dwelling in us to See that we know Everything And are More the Conquerors! He has declared it and it Cannot be changed Ever!

the only true eternal Kings or Priests on the earth are those BORN of GOD!
They have power!

 

[Copper25]

The resolve

matthew 13

<SUP>18</SUP>Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.


<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23559 value="19">19</SUP>When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23560 value="20">20</SUP>But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23561 value="21">21</SUP>Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23562 value="22">22</SUP>He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23563 value="23">23</SUP>But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Trisha, I will leave you with this point, the forth scenario is the only one that bears fruit, frankly, if someone left the faith, they where never really a child of God.
Frankly

Trisha you said

So if they "push God out of their lives" I would think they lost salvation. This post I made wasn't about me but was about the topic. Just stated what I experienced to make a point. She was a Christian, very devoted, but sin got her. So to me she is lost again. So once saved always saved didn't hold up. And also the Romans passage I mentioned kind of wraps it up for me.

I tell you truly Trisha, the Lord who is the Great Sheperd will not let go of His sheep.

<SUP>John 10:27) </SUP>My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

I simply ask again, 100%, every member of the Church saved

or

less than 100% of the Church saved?

One thing that is clearly marked, God does not contradict Himself, neither does His word contradict itself.

Trisha, you know someone can have a whole bunch of works, a piest look, and still be unregenerated and unsaved right?

 

[spirit1st]

WE are called and tested ! There is the problem!
They were tested and failed to stay or should say ? Follow our LORD !
The Elect have given there lives to Him!
The called have Not always!

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.


1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


This man preached the gospel with Paul , but was Never Born -Again!
2Ti 4:9 Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me:
2Ti 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

I would say He was like these people here !

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[johnpaul]

Well put

If you were once trully saved you are always saved, but sometimes/ many times a person never really got saved but thinks he is saved, yet his life has not yet been transformed he is still not a new creature and lives a sinful life. Jesus did not shed his blood for someone who was once trully saved to lose his salvation again, its nonsense. Someone who is trully saved still sins, but will not live a sinful life. The holy spirit will touch that person and he/she will ask forgivenes to the lord and will try to stay away from that sin... Once your name is written in that book it will not be erased. What comes after Salvation is the process of sanctification, some people might go faster others slower, it depends how much the person seeks... Reading the Bible and festing...

Yes, I agree brother

 

[Copper25]

The question

Matthew 7


<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23338 value="21">21</SUP>Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23339 value="22">22</SUP>Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-23340 value="23">23</SUP>And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Again, rule #1, the scripture never contradicts itself.

John 10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

There is one simple thing I say, those that go to hell, that suffer damnation were never known of the Lord, because if they were, that means one of His sheep given to Him by the Father slipped out of His hand. Can you give me a verse in the entire bible where Jesus says something like "I knew you, you were my sheep, but depart from me"?

 

[BlessedLady]

John 10:27-29)

<SUP>27</SUP>My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


<SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-26510 value="28">28</SUP>And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. <SUP class=versenum id=en-KJV-26511 value="29"></SUP>
<SUP class=versenum value="29">29</SUP>My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I got one question for all people.

Is 100%, every single person who is truly in the Church of Christ going to be saved

OR

Is less than 100% of the people who are truly in the Church of Christ going to be saved?

Give me biblical support for your answer.

This is a question many chose not to answer because when they do, it will crush contradict what they believe in the issue of OSAS.

Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved

Am not sure what verse it is. But i have read it in the Bible

Many people in the church are false converts but the ones who truly believe, are and stay saved.



.

 

[Copper25]

John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I think, these are type of verses you are looking for?

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

salvations eternal everlasting thats pretty much the diffrence in the NT from the OT. Jesus came and took our place and finished it on the cross so salvation isnt DO its Done!

 

[OnceWasLost]

My understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 tells me that you would lose your salvation if you willfully and intentionally become an apostate. That seems like that would be pretty rare, though. I can't imagine what would cause someone who's been born again and experiencing God's love to change their mind and decide they don't want it anymore and would rather be in hell.

 

[spirit1st]

Salvation is of the inner man! the outward man , does not affect or infect the inward man!
the inward man , once made a nEW CREATURE! is protected and Kept BY THE LORD!
It cannot sin. Nor would it!
It has HIS mind and nature anyway!
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.



Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.


Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever


1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.



Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.


1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:


1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire


1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[RJ]

My understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 tells me that you would lose your salvation if you willfully and intentionally become an apostate. That seems like that would be pretty rare, though. I can't imagine what would cause someone who's been born again and experiencing God's love to change their mind and decide they don't want it anymore and would rather be in hell.

I respectfully disagree.
I believe what St. Paul was refering to was the unsaved and , in fact, God is saying that if you are truly saved, indwelt with the Holy Spirit first and therefore saved, there is no going back, it is impossible to fall away. God says that, once he comes in, He will never leave you. It is a crucial part of Faith.

Hebrews 6; 4-6 is a difficult verse in itself, if you don't have a sufficient grasp of the New Covenant and Grace, there is a tendancy to think that you can fall way. Paul is not talking about you but a person that was not saved in the first place.
If you said or acted like you shared in the fruits of the Holy Spirit but, then you willfuly and intentionally became an Apostate, then, you were not saved in the first place.
Paul was also addressing a problem he had with trouble makers and non-believers that were infiltrating the church, acting like Christians and eventually turning and denouncing Jesus Christ.

 

[spirit1st]

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

THINK anyone truly lives in the POWER TO COME?

The POWER to come is greater than anything we know!

The bible says Among other things? Our Spirit cannot sin!

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

All scriptures are TRUTH! but the correct understand is what we need1

WE never move a scripture out and lean on another!
All work together to make a perfect truth!

many are tricked to standing on one or two scriptures ! Then reject others!
WE cannot do that



Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.



Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

THE NEW MAN ,NEW CREATURE!

 

[RJ]

All scriptures are TRUTH! but the correct understand is what we need1
WE never move a scripture out and lean on another!
All work together to make a perfect truth!
many are tricked to standing on one or two scriptures ! Then reject others!
WE cannot do that

God gave us many transalations to the bible and we should not literally reject all others for the sake of one either.

If you are saying that we do not sin any more that the idea that we , as Christians, no longer sin is wrong.
Most transalations for 1Jn 3:9 ( as one example) are that we do not practice sin,: it does'nt mean that we are no longer sin at all.
The spirit of God in us is not capable of sinning, that has nothing to do with us.

Paul, himself said that we are only partakers of the Holy Spirit, that we only have the "First Fruits" of what is to come.
In Heb 6 :5 we are partakers, we tatste, we don't totally consume the Holy Spirit.
What is to come? Coming, when we stand before the throne of God, He will perfect us but until then, we are still human, not perfect and subject to sinning.
Paul, himself talks of his struggle with this sin after being saved. Look at Ronmans 7. Paul is not talking about not sinning, he is talking about sinning and not being bound to the law because of it.
Just like Paul, we too are to thank God for what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross.

Because of Jesus Christ, our sin died on the cross (all sin), He did not make us dead to sinning. We are still human, still subject to God's freedom of choice, still imperfect and, still subject to making mistakes and sin.
Thanks be to God for his free gift of Grace!

 

[OnceWasLost]

I respectfully disagree.
I believe what St. Paul was refering to was the unsaved and , in fact, God is saying that if you are truly saved, indwelt with the Holy Spirit first and therefore saved, there is no going back, it is impossible to fall away. God says that, once he comes in, He will never leave you. It is a crucial part of Faith.

Hebrews 6; 4-6 is a difficult verse in itself, if you don't have a sufficient grasp of the New Covenant and Grace, there is a tendancy to think that you can fall way. Paul is not talking about you but a person that was not saved in the first place.
If you said or acted like you shared in the fruits of the Holy Spirit but, then you willfuly and intentionally became an Apostate, then, you were not saved in the first place.
Paul was also addressing a problem he had with trouble makers and non-believers that were infiltrating the church, acting like Christians and eventually turning and denouncing Jesus Christ.

Thanks for that explanation. I still have a lot to learn. I know I don't understand it all yet.

Sometimes I read the BBE because it's easier to for me understand that the KJV, and it words Heb 6:4-6 like this: "As for those who at one time saw the light, tasting the good things from heaven, and having their part in the Holy Spirit, with knowledge of the good word of God, and of the powers of the coming time, and then let themselves be turned away, it is not possible for their hearts to be made new a second time; because they themselves put the Son of God on the cross again, openly shaming him."

So does this passage mean that people who act like Christians but then turn around and denounce Jesus Christ, that it's now impossible for them to ever get saved? It says that "it is not possible for their hearts to be made new a second time" (BBE), so that's what it sounds like to me.

 

[RJ]

Thanks for that explanation. I still have a lot to learn. I know I don't understand it all yet.

Sometimes I read the BBE because it's easier to for me understand that the KJV, and it words Heb 6:4-6 like this: "As for those who at one time saw the light, tasting the good things from heaven, and having their part in the Holy Spirit, with knowledge of the good word of God, and of the powers of the coming time, and then let themselves be turned away, it is not possible for their hearts to be made new a second time; because they themselves put the Son of God on the cross again, openly shaming him."

So does this passage mean that people who act like Christians but then turn around and denounce Jesus Christ, that it's now impossible for them to ever get saved? It says that "it is not possible for their hearts to be made new a second time" (BBE), so that's what it sounds like to me.

Dear "OnceWasLost"

I really like your TJ name; what a great thing it is to be found!

I don't proclaim to have all the answers and I just tell others: " You read the Bible and see what Jesus Christ tells you.
Nothing can substitute what the Holy Spirit reveals to you, not me, not a Pastor, not a church but always the Holy Spirit. Read God's word and continue to ask the Holy Spirit for understanding and you will continue to grow wonderfully.

Here is what I think the verses in Hebrews are saying and they can be very confusing to say the least but, I will do my best:

How many times died Jesus die for your sins?
Of couse, He died just one time!
How many times will Jesus Christ die again for your sins?
That's right, none.
Moments before Jesus gave up His Spirit and died, he looked up and said what?
He said: "It is finshed".
Did He mean His life?
No, He meant His work, that He had died to pay for the sins of the world and had reconciled the world unto God.
It was finished and God said He would not look at Man's sin again.

You wrote:
(1)So does this passage mean that people who act like Christians but then turn around and denounce Jesus Christ, that it's now impossible for them to ever get saved?(2) It says that "it is not possible for their hearts to be made new a second time" (BBE), so that's what it sounds like to me.[/QUOTE]

1. It is talking about people who act like Christians but who , in fact, were never saved in the first place.I am not being judgemental, it is just a fact, Churches are full of people like this. If you are truely saved, "Born Again", it is impossible for you to turn to Apostacy...turn away. I think if a person can not tell you when they were "Born Again", it most likely hasn't happened yet. What He is say here is: " It is impossible to be saved if you were never saved in the first place.

2.This is what Paul is saying here: You can't be saved (truly saved, born again) and commit Apostacy ( the total rejection of Jesus Christ). That would be a conundrum. God said that when He comes into you, He will never leave. Once a true Christian, always a Christian....once a believer always a believer.
So, if you were to fall away like this, would you not be among the unbelievers?
Yes you would! Now, if you are among the unbelievers don't you deserve to have a chance to be saved and "Born Again"? Of course you would. So now, If you were once saved, Jesus truely died for your sins, and you then reject Jesus Christ, is He going to die for you a second time. No He is not!

Again, If you are a believer, and fall away, not stray or pull back but, fall away to Apostacy, then you were not saved the first time.

That is why 2 COR 5:17 says (paraphrasing): If anyone in Christ, he is a new creation. Behold, the new has come and the old has gone.

For Paul's example above, the type of person he is talking about is still the "old person" and the "new person" has not come yet.

Again this is a couple of tough verses to digest and I hope this helps. If you continue to have trouble with them, we'll just keep at it until you are comfortable with them.

In Christ,
Joe

 

[OnceWasLost]

Again this is a couple of tough verses to digest and I hope this helps. If you continue to have trouble with them, we'll just keep at it until you are comfortable with them.

Thanks for your help, Brother Joe. That is a difficult passage.