I have a great big question.
Where did the refomers of the Christian faith come from?

They came out of the Catholic Church, of course, but not from the line of Peter as taught.
The name Catholic wasn't used until about 70 AD to 312 AD after the apostles deaths.
It was used then to bring unity into the Christian faith but was miss used, and many false teaching introduced sometime after that.

"They came out of the Catholic Church, of course"

A church founded on fallacy...must itself be false. Remember the parable about the tree which bears good fruit? To say that the teachings of the Apostles somehow got twisted between the line of John to his disciple Ignatius...isn't that an insult to the Apostles chosen by Christ, saying they can't keep their own teachings straight?

Even more so, wouldn't the churches founded on the Reformation who use a Bible translated in English, from Latin, from Greek, be even farther away? People, who came up with doctrines in the 1500's such as Communion as symbol only when compared to the Christ's Presence taught in 150 AD ---would be even farther away. !!!

My Catholic friend, Who are trying to kid? Many of the early church fathers were forgeries written to justify Catholic theology. Catholic theology is so messed up, it really isn't funny. By the way, how does one get saved in the Catholic Church?


Peace, Golfjack

If Ignatius was a forgery, who at the time spoke truth? Who carried the teachings of the Apostles when the Bible was still in it's infancy? Who preserved the Bible once it was written? Were Polycarp, Clement and the early martyrs of the church dying for a lie, dying without knowledge of the real truth Christ carried.

If the likes of Ignatius, Iraneus, and Polycarp and Justin Martyr are dismay to Christ, give me the names of those righteous disciples who lived in the Early Church.

One is saved in the Catholic Church through the grace of Christ. Through His most holy blood shed for us on the cross. Through unwavering belief and commitment to Him. Those who carry his cross and endure unto the end.
That's a real silly question when you think about it, Catholics are saved the way that all Christians- all men are saved...by Jesus.

You need to read Church history....The Catholic church started to err some 300+ years after Christ arose.

The Apostles, and disciples carried the gospel forward and were martyred for their faith...all except John who died a natural death.

Error was brought in when the catholic church began to lift up one man above another....totally against the way of the Lord.
Jesus humbled himself, and became servant of all.......did you ever see Jesus wear a ring for men to kiss?
No. he wore a crown of thorns, so we might live.

Seek Jesus face, and what he was all about,and you can see the difference. OK?

Again I will say, no one is against you, only hope to help in your search for God, and his righteousness.

Originally Posted by ShepherdsHorn

"They came out of the Catholic Church, of course"

A church founded on fallacy...must itself be false. Remember the parable about the tree which bears good fruit? To say that the teachings of the Apostles somehow got twisted between the line of John to his disciple Ignatius...isn't that an insult to the Apostles chosen by Christ, saying they can't keep their own teachings straight?

Even more so, wouldn't the churches founded on the Reformation who use a Bible translated in English, from Latin, from Greek, be even farther away? People, who came up with doctrines in the 1500's such as Communion as symbol only when compared to the Christ's Presence taught in 150 AD ---would be even farther away. !!!

No one is saying the Apostles couldn't keep their own teaching straight....they were all Martyred by the time the universal church started to err in its teaching.
They died for the gospel ,and the truth of it.
Christ crucified and risen again from the dead.

Then when Jesus passed the cup, and the wine, he was still alive. The cup, and the wine were symbolic of his coming death. He wasn't passing out bits of his body, nor ounces of his blood! Of course it was symbolic!
He said to do likewise in remembrance of him.

Also if you would go back to the original manuscripts and compare with the King James version there is no contradiction. Gods word is an everlasting word, he will see to it!

You took my quote, and forgot to add the rest; "They came out of the Catholic Church, of course, but not from the line of Peter as taught.( and your question was about the reformers, not the Apostles)
The name Catholic wasn't used until about 70 AD to 312 AD after the apostles deaths.
It was used then to bring unity into the Christian faith but was miss used, and many false teaching introduced sometime after that."

I felt you were seeking truth, and fellowship here, so we are reaching out to you, in truth and fellowship. Hope you receive it in the spirit given. Gods Love.

Let me get this strait. Justin Martyr, Polycarp and Clement were martyred before the Scriptural doctrines were twisted? Am I right. They died for the truth?

Have you ever read the writings of Polycarp, Clement and Justyn Martyr. I think you'd be surprised at how "Catholic" they are.

"Catholic" is a name meaning universal. Just because the name for something came later, doesn't mean it didn't exist.

As I said in private, we have agreed to disagree, so lift you up before the Lord, and trust you to his care.

I for one, am Christian, for they were called Christian from the beginning in Antioc, and the message was pure, and undefiled, the gospel simple, and unmarred.
Jesus, the way, the truth, and the life.

We can agree to disagree. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
I will not tolerate however, being told that Catholics are not Christians. A Christian accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior. A Christian worships their Lord, the Son of God, Jesus the Christ. They call upon the name of the Trinity.
Catholics do that, Protestants do that. That's what being a Christian is all about. Peace be with you,
Rachel G.