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War in Heaven

Discussion in 'The Evidence & Prophecy' started by Eric E Stahl, Jan 5, 2012.

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  1. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl Active Member

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    War in Heaven​
    Read these in the King James Bible. When Man sinned we lost dominion of earth and it went to the devil. In the middle of the tribulation period God will take ownership of earth back. Jesus will not come down to rule on earth till after the tribulation.

    Revelation 11:15 KJV The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ because Revelation 12:7-12 the devil and his bad angels are defeated in war and cast to the earth. Isaiah 24:21-22 Isaiah explains that God will use the earth as a prison for the devil and the rebellious people for a short time or the last half of the 7year tribulation.

    Isaiah 14:12-15 KJV Devil cast down because!

    Ezekiel 28:12-19 KJV
     
  2. eddieb

    eddieb New Member

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    how did we loose dominion? i mean God also said to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth. mans population has subdued it. if the enemy had his way we would all be dead. i need scripture refrence to verify we lost dominion.

    i believe God is still on his throne. and that when Jesus was tempted when the enemy says bow down and worship me and he would give Jesus all the world is a lie. it was never his to give. If god gave it to us then thats that. the gifts and calling are without repentance.
     
  3. brakelite

    brakelite New Member

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    Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
    Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
    Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


    Satan is described as the prince of this world. While the earth was originally intended to belong to man, Satan usurped authority by leading man to sin, and thus men and women are now Satan's subjects. Being slaves to sin, men are slaves to the instigator of sin. This world does indeed belong to Satan, albeit temporarily. The cross established Satan's death sentence, and also the retaking of the world for mankind. This is the promise of Calvary, for it is yet future. Our hope is in a new heavens and a new earth. God does not want us to inherit an earth that is corrupted by sin and the consequences of it. This present world is destined for destruction, along with the devil and all who follow him.

    If the world and the kingdoms thereof did not belong to Satan, then the temptation would have been valueless.
    Jesus said that His kingdom is not of this world, and John said:
    1Jo 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
    Our choice is between this world and its prince, or the kingdom of God and its Prince, soon to come as King to take us to heaven to await the recreation of our inheritance which will be delivered to us at the end of the 1000 years.
     
  4. eddieb

    eddieb New Member

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    brakelite also think about what the enemy said to God about Job. have you considered your servant Job.... and God replyed you may do such and such but YOU CANT TAKE HIS LIFE. (the enemy still has to go get permission from God even to wreak havoc). seeing as how man was alive(Job) and already fell since adam, you can clearly see the enemy dosent rule anything. not supremely.
    not to say what you say isnt true, but once we are adopted we are of another spirit. me personally i dont believe the enemy rules anything unless you allow it in your life. some may word it like open the door to satan or keeping him under your foot.
    ... i keep reading what you typed and going over scriptures i know in my head and its crossing my mind so im going stop this post. eagerly waiting your response, if you do.
     
  5. brakelite

    brakelite New Member

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    Oh absolutely. Satan cannot do just anything he wants, his ability to directly influence or interfere in the lives of God's people is most certainly limited. The book of Revelation tells us that there are four angels holding back the 4 winds if strife until the servants of God are sealed. When those angels let go, this earth will witness more chaos, calamity, and wickedness that will make the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad look like a light skirmish by comparison.
    But God's people will be protected from everything Satan would seek to throw at them. But that is because God's people are not of this world. Their hearts and minds are in heavenly places seated with Christ.
    Meanwhile we must live in this world, operating behind enemy lines if you will. But despite the closeness of the contest and the heat of battle, we can be confident that angels of God are encamped around about us ever willing to give us their protection, their strength and guidance.
     
  6. eddieb

    eddieb New Member

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    so where does it say man forfieted his dominion? i take prince of this world to mean man brought sin into the world by disobedience but he fathered the lie. i dont believe he is in charge or control of anything. except if you let him have a foothold and even then its possible to get rid of him by resisting temptation, prayer and fasting. cant get rid of the Holy Ghost. not that you would want to. just for comparassion.
    i believe this is Gods earth/planet/world still, and he has his way. even in the whirlwind. i havent found anywhere though where it says we gave up our dominion. even more, i have had the Holy spirit well up inside me powerfully and i was speaking in tounges. the enemy started telling me lies, what your saying isnt anything its gibberish you know it dosent mean anything. this angered me and i said loudly "shut up". i couldnt see him but i know his hands drew up and his eyes got big and he withdrew from the room and adventually the house. he dont have rule. he is a liar and all his "power" comes from deception.
     
  7. Thiscrosshurts

    Thiscrosshurts Active Member

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    Absolutely,we know that the Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world.

    Romans 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
    Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
    Romans 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

    Did Adam subject the creation?
    Did Satan subject the creation?
    It seems to me that God himself did.
    Satan is given way to much glory in the church.There is no evidence that either Isaiah or Ezekiel were referring to Satan in there rants against the kings of the earth.

    There is also no proof that the serpent in the garden was Satan.The serpent was a beast of the field not an angel or a cherub.He was not cast down from any per-existing heaven that he tried to overthrow.
    He was made on that 6th day along with the rest of the beasts.
    Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?

    There is also no evidence that Satan is one of the sons of God.

    Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

    This verse states Satan came among them it does not say he was one of them."Again there was a day" can also be translated as "On another day".
    We know that Jesus is the DAY so Satan certainly did not come on that day,he had to come on another day.
     
  8. Seeker Of Jesus

    Seeker Of Jesus New Member

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    Genesis 1:31: Then God looked over all He had made, and He saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day.

    While the Bible does not say that the serpent is satan you have to think about that one, prior to Adam & Eve Eating of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil there was no sin, and as Genesis 1:31 says everything He made was Very Good, and so every single living thing (such as animals, etc etc) was very Good because they had not yet been contaminated with Sin. The Bible says that every single creature that exists on the earth was made by God, so God made Snakes. So therefore if Everything God made was very good prior to sin coming into the world than why would a snake being very good (as were all the creatures on the earth) lie to eve and deceive her into eating of the tree and therefore bring sin into the world. So when people say that the serpent was not satan but just an animal it makes no sense to me because what motive would the snake have in doing this especially if it was very good as scripture says, this alone asures me that the "serpent referred to in Genesis is not a snake or any other reptile, but satan being....well satan would have all the motive in the universe to wanna rebel against God and try to hurt God by causing what is most precious to Him (Humans) to bring sin in this world and ultimately destroy themselves.

    Now i might be wrong so who knows but this is came to mind. If i am wrong i would very much love to be corrected in the truth.
     
    #8 Seeker Of Jesus, Jan 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  9. Thiscrosshurts

    Thiscrosshurts Active Member

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    That is a most excellent question that I don't know the answer to.
    Of all the options I've heard the only one that makes sense is.... none that I have heard so far.Your right the serpent was a beast so it had to be good.In fact Adam fell on that day as far as I can tell ,at the end of the day God said it's all good.
    I understand where your coming from but in a court of law in the US you could not get a conviction based on that kind of evidence.
    If the pitchfork doesn't fit you must acquit.
    The fact that the Lord made him a beast of the field with all the other beasts means it was a beast.There are more clues though,remember God made the animals and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them and whatever he called them that was their name.
    So Adam would have named the serpent.
    I'm not sure but I think the word serpent has something to do with serpentine or wavering.
    The serpent was crafty or subtle so maybe spoke with a forked tongue or constantly contradicted itself.
    James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
    James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
    Some translations say a wavering man.
     
    #9 Thiscrosshurts, Jan 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  10. gdemoss

    gdemoss New Member

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    Some thoughts to consider

    Grace and Peace from God our Father and his Christ, Jesus. Here are some thoughts to do with what you will. Accept them or reject them it matters not to me. I put them out there for you to view.

    Before ever a world there was, Father and Son together enjoying one another in perfect fellowship between perfect beings, one Father and one Son. Father knows all and teaches his Son bringing him up in his nurture. Then upon one day a plan was made to do a work of creation. The Father would be the God of all yet the Son the highest creation. The plan would me made, the end known from the beginning. There would be a new heaven and a new earth where in righteousness dwells. Jesus Christ would be King of King and Lord of Lords, all principality and dominion subject unto him.

    So they laid the foundations of the earth and over the course of six days they created all things. Upon the completion of the angels, earth, man and all that is in earth, the order was issued from the throne that the tree should not be eaten from. The work was finished. The creation teaming with life was moving within the limited boundaries set forth by God the Father. And God pronounced it 'very good'. Very good is all that it was made to be on day six of creation week. God did not design a 'perfect' creation on purpose. All things were created by Jesus and for Jesus. He ultimately would be the perfect ruler of all creation upon the final purification of that which was created, all evil being expunged from it.

    Satan being lifted up in pride fell from his lofty position. He did as spirits can do, he entered into the serpent and through him tempted Eve into disobedience by deception. Adam, still having the mind of God who he was created to think like, subjected the creation to vanity in hope that God the Father would save them both. He was the like figure of him who was to come (Jesus).

    Over the course of the history of mankind, God has continued to refine the creation and give people ample opportunity to come to him. From the very beginning men and women called upon the name of the Lord while others decided not to. Various periods of time elapsed until it was time to present the Son for sacrifice. He is Gods ace up his sleeve, something Satan did not see coming. Satan was able to get to the first man Adam through his wife Eve who was the weaker vessel, but Jesus being alone without yet a bride was not penetrable by Satan. Satan foolishly had Jesus killed according to the will of God the Father, only to find out that he was taken in his own trap like Haman in Esther. He was the 'prince' of this world and not the 'King'. Man never lost his dominion to Satan as can be seen in Jesus commanding fish to be caught, to bring money in their mouth, trees to be cursed and people to be fed. Man was just spiritually dead and lost in a cesspool of sin and suffering, being judged by God the Father who was never out of control of anything to begin with.

    So here we are in the age of the church. The bride being prepared for her husband, so that they may rule and reign a thousand years together on earth in the final stage of purification of creation. He will rule with a rod of Iron, which is his mouth. But what this thread seeks to clarify is how we can expect this time period to be ushered in. With all of the background information that I have given, let me now approach the idea of the upcoming tribulation.

    If I am understanding the scripture correctly, the next thing that will happen is God will take his Holy Spirit from man on earth to be left to his own devices. This will probably happen on Pentecost but man doesn't understand when Pentecost truly is so he will be unaware of what is happening. The church age will be officially over and the 70 week of Daniel will officially begin unbeknownst to those who are still here that were part of the church. These are they who slumbered and slept, being asleep to righteousness as they thought it really didn't matter if they were but only if Jesus was. They fell for the lies. The seven churches spoken of in Revelation are here upon the earth and will be treated just as was prophesied of them. Of those churches, Philadelphia was the only one who was told that he would keep them from the tribulation period coming. Another who would have a short lived tribulation period ending in martyrdom.

    For the one who is kept from the period of tribulation, he did not say how he would do it. Some propose a rapture of sorts but I don't believe scripture supports it. I tend to believe that they will just cease to breathe when the Holy Spirit is take from the earth. They will close their eyes and reopen them as they are called by Jesus to meet him in the air at his return at the end of the tribulation. The rest will live through the ungodly days because the repented not of their sin and refused or didn't understand what it meant to live in the spirit and mortify the deeds of the flesh. Those who survive the tribulation will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, at the sound of the last trump and will meet Jesus in the air as he comes to rule and reign over the earth.

    I was in the church of Laodicea and God called unto me, and I awoke from my slumber to see that I was not clothed with the righteousness of Christ, I was wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. I opened the door and Jesus came in to sup with me. I have been rebuked and chastened of the Lord God Almighty and am currently praying that he will move me into the church of Philadelphia that I may not see the coming tribulation. Hopefully there is still time left and the four horsemen are not set free to bring judgement upon this wicked world that has forgotten God and worship the works of their hands.

    As I have understood so I speak, yet if I need a clearer vision let not the men be seen as trees walking but may the blindness be cleared from mine eyes.

    Yours to consider, do with it what you will.

    Gary
     
  11. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl Active Member

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    Revelation 11:15 KJV The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ because Revelation 12:7-12 the devil and his bad angels are defeated in war and cast to the earth. Isaiah 24:21-22 Isaiah explains that God will use the earth as a prison for the devil and the rebellious people for a short time or the last half of the 7year tribulation.

    Revelation 11:15 KJV
    15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    because


    Revelation 12:7–12 KJV
    7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


    Isaiah 24:21-22
    21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
    22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
     
    #11 Eric E Stahl, Jan 14, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
  12. warathome

    warathome New Member

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    Yes

    Very Interesting post!
     
  13. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl Active Member

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    Read the following verses and notice that the kingdoms will become , so they are not now.
    War in Heaven - 01-14-12, 09:57 AM
    Revelation 11:15 KJV The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ because Revelation 12:7-12 the devil and his bad angels are defeated in war and cast to the earth. Isaiah 24:21-22 Isaiah explains that God will use the earth as a prison for the devil and the rebellious people for a short time or the last half of the 7year tribulation.

    Revelation 11:15 KJV
    15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    because


    Revelation 12:7–12 KJV
    7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


    Isaiah 24:21-22
    21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
    22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
     
  14. eddieb

    eddieb New Member

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    none of the scriptures you provided say man lost his dominion. allow me to illustrate. man is in offices of government worldwide. man rules. this is true. now all men have a choice. life or death (therfore choose life that ye and your offspring may live long in the land god.... its out of deuteronomy.) men in power have a choice. to rule in righteousness or wickedness. man still opens the door to the enemy or to not open to the enemy. man still gives his consent. just as adam consented to eat of the fruit. thus man has dominion. if a man in power (in dominion of government) chooses to rule in tyranny and oppression and dishonest gain then he brings upon himself, the people, and the land all the hardships that come with it. in revelations when God sends the plauges it says the men wouldnt repent. thier heart was hardened. its mans choice to open the door. speaking of doors jesus stands at the door and knocks and if any man opens he will come in and sup. we have to open that door though.
     
  15. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl Active Member

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    war in heven

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    The kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ by war in heaven at the

    blowing of the 7th trumpet judgment. Can you give me any scripture to show how or when the devil will

    take the kingdoms from man so God can take them from the devil?
     
  16. eddieb

    eddieb New Member

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    when we cant buy sell or trade without the mark of the beast. when he makes the people worship him or kill them. but even then he tricks them into thinking he is God. so even then his power comes from deception. the believers who know the truth wont be fooled. so even when that day comes and they kill the believers, and the word says that will happen in revelations (13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.) but even then when we are killed the enemy has no power.

    there is victory in Jesus.
    We win. We win. (i feel like shouting!!!!)
     
  17. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl Active Member

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    In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 God causes the christian countries to accept the antichrist after the rapture.

    In Revelation 17: God causes the ten kings who have devoured the earth to give their power to the antichrist! So when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdomes of God and his Christ, God will put the antichrist in power!
     
  18. eddieb

    eddieb New Member

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    i would like to point out two of the words in your post....

    "God causes."

    even a little closer to the end of your post it says (3 more words) "God will put".

    every one of my posts in this thread has been to thwart belief that "the prince of this world" is nothing more than the one to bring sin into the world by telling Eve a lie. his nation that he is prince is of sin and bondage to sin. there is no truth in him. if he speaks its a lie. he has no rule unless you open the door. the bible even instructs for a man and wife to abstain laying with one another so the enemy dosent get a foothold. anything in excess is bad. God rules and we choose or not. We still call the animals what man names them. man still rules in bodys of government.
    God causes these things to happen so He can singlehandedly defeat evil and recieve the praise honor and glory. Jesus said he is the resurection and the life. then a few passages later he says lazuras, come forth. (john 11:43) Jesus conquered the grave.
    Now i understand that when we are born we are born in sin, however my words are to someone who is already a believer in this context.
     
  19. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl Active Member

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    I Believe the Bible

    to eddieb from nonya bissness,

    God is going to take control of earth from the devil according to the Bible.

    I believe the Bible.

    What scriptures do you have to make you believe that man still has control?
     
  20. micolr

    micolr New Member

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    Backing up Eric here, if we were the ones with complete dominion, why did Satan offer dominion over the whole world to Jesus?

    Jesus did not deny Satan's claim either, but simply refused the offer.


    We sinned and gave our authority to Satan, who now owns us as slaves to sin and death, just as God warned us would happen. Jesus has liberated us, if we accept His free gift.

    We then become citizens of Heaven, owned by God again, and therefore heirs to everything God has, which will also be the world when He takes it back, in the 7th trumpet, as Eric has stated. He is perfectly Biblical with his statements.


     

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