The Covenant Confirmed

Discussion in 'The Evidence' started by Stephen1, Sep 22, 2009.

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  1. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    The covenant confirmed in Daniel 9 has to be the covenant of the 70 weeks of years decreed for Israel in the context of the chapter .... there is no other covenant described

    .... and there is no indication that this covenant is some sort of peace treaty between Israel and the nation's enemies

    Only the Lord can confirm this covenant by executing the 70th week .... thereby reaching the 6 objectives for the believing remnant of Israel who will turn to Him during His hour [time] of trial

    Visionary prophecy must be read carefully and in this case [Daniel 9:26-27] one needs to see that there are two princes involved .... the Lord .... and the other prince

    It is the Lord who was cut off at the end of the 69th week

    Then it is the other prince and His followers who will come and desecrate [at the middle of thefuture 70th week]

    The vision then repeats this same contrast

    The Lord ["He"] confirms the covenant [the other prince cannot do this and would not because of the objectives that will be met]

    Then the other prince ["he"] will cause the sacrifice to cease [worship at the Kotel] and to desolate [at the middle of the week]

    This other prince is the "antichrist" and he and his followers will invade, occupy and rule over Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount for 42 months before the Lord will pour out His wrath upon the desolaters

    None of the 70th week of 2,520 days has transpired yet and is still pending

    In fact, there is a breach in the time lapse that can be found in all the the prophetic visions related to the time of the end of this present age

    Events on the earth between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th are not recorded in the scope of visionary prophecy ... many significant things have come and gone over the last 2,000 years and they are simply not there

    I know that this is not congruent with most of the traditional views .... and that there is a attempt to place certain periods of post 69th week history and related into the scope of the visions .... but I don't think it is there

    For example: Daniel's visions track the geopolitical phases of the Middle East through the end of the rule of Antiochus IV [11:21-35] .... and then the rest of the unfulfilled portion jumps directly to the time of the end [still pending today]
     
    #1 Stephen1, Sep 22, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2009
  2. dandt5

    dandt5 New Member

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    just one thing to say really, 70 weeks, meant 70 7's.
     
  3. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    From my website: [edited by Jiggyfly- no posting of websites without permission]

    70 x 7s
    The time frame of all unfulfilled visionary prophecy is still future. All fulfilled prophecy has been fulfilled through the end of the 69th week of the 70 weeks of years decreed for national Israel. A week of years is the Jewish “heptad”. Each year represents 360 literal prophetic days. This calculates to a 7 year period of time or 2,520 days. The 69 weeks of years represent a time period of 173,880 prophetic days or 483 years.

    This time frame began at the decree to return and build the city Jerusalem from the Babylonian captivity (under Persian rule) in 445 B.C. 483 prophetic years lapsed in about 33 A.D. and the Lord was then cut off at His first coming. There is one “heptad” (one 7 year period) remaining for the completion of the decreed amount of total time of 490 years and this 7 year period is still future.

    It is significant that the nation of unbelieving Israel is existing as an independent political entity in the Land of Israel today after many centuries of domination by the Gentiles and exile from their land. They are there to experience the 70th week decreed which is still pending.

    The nation's continuous intransigence against God's providence and direction has resulted in the loss of His personal guidance. Israel is still in this condition at the present time. God's long term preservation of Israel's national identity is specifically for His ultimate plans.....not Israel's self-generated nationalism.

    The years following the reign of Israel's prominent kings David and his son Solomon included political division of the nation and subsequent invasion and assimilation of ten of the tribes of Israel by the Assyrians. Successive dominance of the remainder of the nation followed by the three empires of neo-Babylon, Persia, and Grecia.

    The neo-Babylonians conquered what was left of the remnant, took many captives, and relocated the population. It was under the rule of the next empire, Persia, that a remnant of Israel was allowed to return to the Land of Israel (445 B.C.). This began the count down of the 70 weeks of years (490 literal years). 483 years have lapsed with one 7 year period yet to be experienced by Israel after their second return from the nations of the Gentiles to the Land of Israel. [Daniel 9:24-27]

    If the death of Jesus occurred around 33 A.D. then the following calculation can be made. The time lapse would be 444 calendar years to the first century from 445 B.C. plus 33 additional years to equal 477 years. The conversion factor for 360 day prophetic years can be calculated by dividing 365 by 360 which is 1.0138. Prophetic years are shorter so there are more of them included in the time frame of 477 calendar years.

    There are 483.5826 (477 x 1.0138) prophetic years in the time frame. If one adjusts this result by leap year days, the final calculation is very close to 483 years (69 weeks of years). Daniel's vision of the time frame allows for this amount of time to lapse after which the Messiah Prince would be cut off and have nothing. The last segment of 7 years (1 week of years) is still yet future and requires Israel's return in part to the Land of Israel from the nations. This final 7 years will include future prophetic events leading up to the visible return of Israel's Messiah who is Jesus Christ.

    The covenant of 70 weeks of years is described in the 9th chapter of Daniel. The Lord will confirm this covenant by executing the last 7 years including the 6 objectives for national Israel at the time of the end which is still pending. These objectives must be met for national Israel at that time since most of the nation has been in the state of unbelief. Some will turn and accept their Messiah, Jesus Christ.This peroid will be exactly 2,520 prophetic days long and there will be another 30 days and 45 days added. The Lord will turn on Satan's beast and his kingdom and destroy it during the 30 day period ending with the battle of Armageddon. The Lord will then appear to the world and gather all of the survivors of the 70th week and separate them for enterence into His kingdom during the next 45 days.

    Satan and his fallen angelics are coming to the earth at the beginning of the 70th week and it will take the first 1,260 days for him to develop his kingdom in the Middle East including the invasion and occupation of Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount. He will also gain a large human following the will worship him as a god. He will then rule most of the Middle East for the next 1,260 days (42 months). The Lord will then force him and his followers to Armageddon and destroy his kingdom within 30 days.

    There is nothing recorded in the scope of the visionary prophecy time frame presented in Scripture between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th. The end time frames of the O.T. visions of the prophets, the Lord’s discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation beginning in chapter 4 are all about the 70th week which is still pending. The Lord’s discourse concerning the time of the end is all focused upon the generation of national Israel that will be living during the 70th week. No known events on the earth are included in the time lapse between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th. There have been many attempts to find them or fit some in, but they are not there. All of the time lapse of last 2,000+ years up to this day is not in the visions.

    His discourse is presented three times and all are focused upon the future 70th week. Luke has the armies of the “antichrist” (little horn, beast) surrounding Jerusalem and Matthew has the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place (temple mount). Luke does record the fate of the apostles in the first century (“before all of these things” – before the events of the future 70th week). Everything else is the same. There is no “70 A.D.” picture in the scope. 70 A.D. events occurred long after the 69th week and were certainly not part of the 70th which is still pending. The people of the prince that shall come were not the Romans in the first century, but will be the followers of the "antichrist" during the 70th week. The 6th king "position" that John sees, the king that "is", will be the little horn of Daniel's visions and not a Roman king in the first century. John sees the "things that shall be hearafter" .... the 70th week which is still pending.

    The Lord also addresses the mystery kingdom of the Church (composed of a few Israelites and many Gentiles) in the parables of Matthew 25. His focus is on His “harpazo” which will separate professing Christianity into those that are ready and those that are not. The first (both dead and living together) will enter the heavenly dimension and the rest of the living will remain to experience the 70th week. Some of national Israel and the nations will repent and turn to the Lord during His hour of trial, most will not. Some of these will be martyrs and some will survive the period. The development of this mystery kingdom began at Pentecost and will culminate when the fullness of the Gentiles are added. He will then execute His "harpazo" and ensuing hour of trial.[Romans 11:25]

    70 A.D. is not in the scope and this can be verified by comparing O.T. visions of the 70th week with the historical record of the Roman invasions of 70 A.D. They simply do not match up. There are many events in visionary prophecy that are not a reflection of 70 A.D. The 70th week is a defined time lapse of 7 years and this balance of unfulfilled prophecy will begin at the onset of the period and will then continue beyond the end of it. Neither is the Church in view in this scope of the 490 years which is composed of both Jew and Gentile. The Church has no national identity and is not in the scope on the earth during the time frame. The Church will be in heaven observing the events of the period and will return with the Lord at the end of it. Revelation switches back and forth from heaven to the earth during the period. The Church can be found in the heavenly state and identified as Revelation unfolds.

    The precept of the time frame of the 70 weeks decreed for national Israel should be applied to all unfilled prophecy written in Scripture for accurate exegesis. All of the content of future events can be identified and fit exactly into this time frame. Most traditional interpretations do not incorporate this method of exegesis and all of them have difficulties that require some level of apologetics, selective allegory, contextual extraction, misapplication of Scriptures, and deliberate elimination. I would suggest the student of Bible prophecy test the precept of the 70 weeks decreed against all known Scriptural passages related to visionary prophecy. I will be glad to assist any one with reconciliations related to the pre-conceptions of other views.
     
    #3 Stephen1, Oct 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2009
  4. dandt5

    dandt5 New Member

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    well, I wasn't even arguing the 70 AD thing right then, I don't have time to read the whole thing, I'm leaving soon, so I skimmed it. please, think about what I'm saying with an open heart. The Bible makes it clear that the second coming had to come in that generation. here are only a few examples. (when talking about the second coming, look it up in context yourself) "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened" Mathew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32. "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Mathew 16:28, Mark 9:1, and Luke 9:27. "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep." 1 Thessalonians 4:15. not to mention the countless times the Bible says that it is coming soon. many times in one of Paul's letters he told the to be waiting because the time was soon, but it was different for the Tessalonians. " <SUP id=en-NASB-29623 class=versenum>1</SUP>Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you.
    <SUP id=en-NASB-29624 class=versenum>2</SUP>For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. " 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 I've heard many times people quote 2 Peter 3:8 to attempt to disregard this ("But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.") but this verse is not talking about how God talks about time, if you look in context it's talking about God's patience.
     
  5. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    Sorry, but I have to disagree with you .... I know exactly why you made your statement

    I do not accept preterism as a viable interpretation of Bible prophecy for many reasons

    Neither do I debate on public forums regarding the historical concept of "it all happened in 70 A.D." as preterism teaches ... the entire concept is off course in my opinion

    If you want to know why you can PM me
     
    #5 Stephen1, Oct 17, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
  6. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

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    70 weeks fulfilled

    The 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled. It was fulfilled during the 3 1/2 years of Christ ministry, his death and the 3 1/2 years following the cross, which probably ended when Peter went to Cornilius.

    Dan 9:24
    24 Seventy weeks Numbers 14:34, Ezekiel 4:4-6 are determined upon thy people Acts 3:25-26, 13:46, Romans 1:16and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression Isaiah 53:5, Romans 4:15-16, 5:14-21, Hebrews 2:2,1 John 3:4-6, and to make an end of sins Rom chapter 6, 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:24, Hebrew 10:12-14 and to make reconciliation for iniquity, Romans 5:8-10, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19, Colossians 1:20, Hebrews 2:17 and to bring in everlasting righteousness, Romans 8:1-4, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Corinthians 5:21, and to seal (2856 chatham (khaw-tham'); a primitive root; to close up; especially to seal: KJV-- make an end, mark, seal (up), stop)up the vision and prophecy, Matthew 5:17, Acts 3:18, Hebrews 8:10-13, and to anoint the most Holy. Luke 4:18-21

    Dan 9:27
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:25, 2 Corinthians 3:6, 14, Hebrews 7:22,9:15-20, 10:16-23 with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, Hebrews Chapter 9 & 10:18, 26 and for the overspreading of abominations Proverbs 15:8, Proverbs 21:27, I King 11:7, Lev 10:1, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.Daniel 9:26b
     
    #6 Bambi, Oct 26, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  7. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    The 70th week decreed for national Israel has not been fulfilled

    Preterism is not an acceptable theology according to the Lord's Word

    The interpretation of the scriptures that you hold and offer would be in direct contradiction with many other scriptures of the Bible ..... this view of preterism is a ruse and you should move away from it

    The following passages of scripture are all a view of the coming 70th week decreed and beyond [there are many more that tell the same]:

    Jeremiah
    30:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

    30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.

    30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

    30:4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.

    30:5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.

    30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

    30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

    30:8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

    30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

    30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

    30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

    30:12 For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.

    30:13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.

    30:14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.

    30:15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.

    30:16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.

    30:17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.

    30:18 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

    30:19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.

    30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.

    30:21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.

    30:22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

    30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.

    30:24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.

    Ezekiel
    36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

    36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

    36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

    36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

    36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

    36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

    36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

    36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

    36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

    36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

    36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

    36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

    36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

    36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

    36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

    36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

    36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

    36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

    36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

    36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

    36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

    36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

    36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

    36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

    36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

    36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

    36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

    36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

    36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

    36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

    36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

    36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

    36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

    36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

    36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

    Zechariah
    14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

    14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

    14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

    14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

    14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

    14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

    14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

    14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

    14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

    14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

    14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

    14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ***, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

    14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

    14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

    14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
     
    #7 Stephen1, Oct 26, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  8. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

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    What do you believe Stephen?

    What is your interpretation of Daniel's 70 week? If it's about an Anti-Christ that makes a covenant with Israel, then breaks that covenant. Can you show me where in scripture, other than Daniel so you can prove scripture with scripture, where this interpretation is found.

    What you have quoted in Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Zechariah were prophesied before or during the captivity in Babylon. These prophesies are about the Jews returning to their homeland from the Babylon captivity. Nothing else.
     
    #8 Bambi, Oct 26, 2009
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  9. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    There is no "peace" agreement made by the "antichrist" with Israel, and then broken, recorded in any scripture or vision

    The covenant confirmed within the context of the 9th chapter of Daniel is the 70 weeks of years decreed for Daniel's people ..... the 70th week has never taken place yet and is still future

    And your view of the visions of the prophets posted regarding Israel's return to experience the coming 70th week is not correct

    These things have never taken place as they are given and they have nothing to do with the return of Israel from the Babylonian captivity during Persian rule [this event was the beginning of the 490 years [70 weeks of years] of which 483 years have transpired .... there is still a future 7 year period to complete

    There is no way that anyone can interpret and place these future events in the past and this is very obvious to those who know and understand the actual historical events and related scriptures regarding Israel

    A remnant of Israel has returned to the land today and this is common knowledge

    The nation is in place to experience the coming 70th week decreed .... the time of "Jacob's" trouble as noted in Jeremiah's vision

    There are volumes of this same future experience for the nation recorded in the prophetic scriptures

    Do not let the teachers of preterism deceive you

    Study your Bible for yourself and learn something about Israel's past and future experiences

    You give me a detailed explanation of the prophecies I gave you to study and show me item by item, and event by event, that these things have already past .... you cannot honestly do it

    Preterism's rendering of these visions and relegating them to the past requires a very gross distortion of the meanings .... this teaching must reduce them to allegories or ignore them by sweeping them under the rug in order to promote its false interpretations

    The Lord is not finished with national Israel as the scriptures do tell and most theologies who refute this truth are standing against Him and reflect an anti-semitic position.... He is an Israelite by His humanity and is the nation's King and Messiah .... do not forget this

    The nation is in unbelief today, but this is going to change during His coming hour [time]of trial ands a remnant will turn and believe

    He intends to restore the kingdom to Israel [Acts 1:6] and He will rule the earth from Jerusalem for 1,000 years [Micah 4; Revelation 20] .... then eternity will begin [Revelation 21]
     
    #9 Stephen1, Oct 26, 2009
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  10. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

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    It has happened read the books Ezra and Nehemiah.
     
  11. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

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    The covenant is confirmed within the 70th week not weeks. You cannot even prove your view. Did you look at the verses I gave. They talk of Jesus' covenant, they talk of Christ death ceasing the need for sacrifices. The Jews didn't stop the sacrifices, those sacrifices became the abominations. The Jews rejected Jesus, they rejected God. They are a false religion.

    If I cannot open your eyes to the truth of God's word then I leave you to God. So that he might open yours eyes to the truth. Psalms 86:11
    11 Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
     
  12. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    Sorry, but the scriptures give the proof

    Jeremiah 30 is a future prophecy for Israel that you take one verse and quote out of context .... you must incorporate all of the vision and your explanations

    Here are additional visions that view the same future 70th week decreed .... I will continue to post on this thread of the covenant confirmed during the coming 70th week until I present them all for the readers of the forum to see

    Good luck with your studies and hopefully you will break the bands of preterism that seem to have captured you

    Obadiah
    1:15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

    1:16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

    1:17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

    1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

    1:19 And they of the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and they of the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin shall possess Gilead.

    1:20 And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south.

    1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.

    Joel
    3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

    3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

    3:3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

    3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;

    3:5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:

    3:6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.

    3:7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:

    3:8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

    3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:

    3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

    3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

    3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

    3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

    3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

    3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

    3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

    3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

    3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

    3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

    3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

    3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.
     
    #12 Stephen1, Oct 26, 2009
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  13. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    This is a future event that Israel has never experienced which will take place during the coming 70th week decreed

    Ezekiel
    38:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

    38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

    38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

    38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

    38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

    38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

    38:7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

    38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

    38:9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

    38:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

    38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

    38:12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

    38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

    38:14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

    38:15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

    38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

    38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

    38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

    38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

    38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

    38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

    38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

    38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

    All of this is future and never experienced by Israel in the past

    Ezekiel
    39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

    39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

    39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

    39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

    39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

    39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

    39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

    39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

    39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

    39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

    39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

    39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

    39:13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

    39:14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

    39:15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

    39:16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

    39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

    39:18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

    39:19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

    39:20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

    39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

    39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

    39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

    39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

    39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

    39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

    39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

    39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

    39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
     
    #13 Stephen1, Oct 26, 2009
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  14. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    All of these things are future events regarding Israel and none of them are past historical events

    Zechariah
    14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

    14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

    14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

    14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

    14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

    14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

    14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

    14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

    14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

    14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

    14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

    14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ***, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

    14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

    14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

    14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
     
  15. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    All future events for Israel and the nations at the time of the end of this present age .... the Lord's coming hour of trial .... the 70th week decreed

    Micah
    5:1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

    5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

    5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

    5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

    5:5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

    5:6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

    5:7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

    5:8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

    5:9 Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.

    5:10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots:

    5:11 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strong holds:

    5:12 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:

    5:13 Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

    5:14 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.

    5:15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.
     
  16. stephen

    stephen Moderator
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    The biggest error of preterist belief is the rejection of the Jew.

    This modern idea is not a thing I have afforded time to understand. The preterist appear to believe that they have replaced the Jew in Gods plan. Israel has been replaced by them. Dear Lord

    What nonsense! The bible is a Jewish book written by Jews. Jesus was a Jew. The gospel came "to the Jew first" ect.

    Rom 11; 1 Rom 11:12 Rom 11:17 -18 Rom 11: 25 Rom 11: 28, 29, 30 ect

    2 Thess 2:3 talks of a falling away before the AntiChrist is revealed.... This falling away is not numerical as might be supposed...it is "apostasia" ...defection, revolt, apostacy etc. We are becoming aware of this in biblical interpretation around the world today
     
  17. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    Stephen,

    You are absolutely correct

    Preterism is just one of the replacement theologies existing .... there are a number of them

    The false teacher will always attempt to reject the prophetic scriptures regarding national Israel

    This is necessary for them to do so that they can then insert their deceptive dogmas

    The danger of this behavior can mislead the unwary and the unlearned, and most of these heritical teachings contain adverse and deceptive slants against one's own salvation
     
    #17 Stephen1, Oct 26, 2009
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  18. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    These are the future 144,000 of the children of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe, who will operate during the coming 70th week decreed

    Revelation
    7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

    7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

    7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

    7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

    7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

    7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

    7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

    14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

    14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

    14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

    14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

    14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
     
    #18 Stephen1, Oct 26, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  19. Stephen1

    Stephen1 New Member

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    The "woman" in this chapter is national Israel in the first century .... and during the future 70th week decreed

    There is a breach in the prophetic visions between the end of the 69th week [about 33 A.D.] and the beginning of the 70th which is still pending until the fullness of the Gentiles is added to the church

    Then the 70th week will begin .... and all unfulfilled prophecy of the visions of the Bible prophets will consumate

    Revelation
    12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

    12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

    12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

    12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

    12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

    12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

    12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
     
  20. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

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    I don't reject any Jew. If a Jewish person wants to accept Jesus as their Messiah, Praise the Lord!!! What I do reject is their false religion. It is anti-Christ.
     
    #20 Bambi, Oct 26, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009