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Psychotropic drugs = Pharmakeia = Sorcery?

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by philosopher, Mar 20, 2012.

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  1. philosopher

    philosopher New Member

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    I've heard this argument, several times lately, and was looking for a discussion. In the original Greek text, the word for sorcery was pharmakeia - and we parallel that with the pharmaceutical drugs, on the market today.

    Psychotropic drugs are defined by the action they have in the brain, altering the chemistry, to release or inhibit the flow of neurotransmitters like serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine for example. All of this for therapeutic help for those with a chemical imbalance.

    When the Bible was referring to sorcery, these people would purposely seek altered states of consciousness to get more in touch with the spirit world, or for the euphoric properties.

    Now, some people are trying to claim that using anti-depressants or anti-psychotics to control a disorder is equivalent to sorcery. Ask yourselves, would God really condemn a person suffering from bipolar disorder who just wanted to control his periods of severe depression or stop his mania from doing something they would regret? Or is it a sin for a schizophrenic to take drugs to block out the part of their brain which is responsible for the delusion?

    The list goes on and one. Granted, these drugs come with many risks and can, in rare cases, have serious side effects. The difference I see here is that one set of drugs seeks to fix a chemical imbalance, or regulate the neurotransmitters in the brain to control sanity.

    Other illicit drugs like weed, coke, lsd, magic mushrooms etc - the user takes for the sole purpose of getting ''high'' and exploring their consciousness. And in turn, this opens people up to demonic oppression/possession. This use of drugs fits the description of sorcery / pharmakeia more accurately at least for me.
     
  2. jari

    jari New Member

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    I agree. interesting definition of sorcery there btw. i have thought the same while reading bible but never studied it.
    even drinking coffee, could be "sorcery". - in sense of getting high.
    glad were talking about about something fairly mild stimulant here (coffee) so it goes in moderation. but too much of that would be bad for you as well.

    i dont see pharmacy in anyway sorcery it self or sin.... depends what it does for your though. if you take pills for depression or pills for agression or whatever and it does just that it cant be bad.
    but do we know the side effects?
     
  3. Thiscrosshurts

    Thiscrosshurts Active Member

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    Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

    Do these things go into or come out of a man?

    Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.


    Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

    However if you are going to burden yourself with rules then don't break them:
    Romans 14:14 know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that
    there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

    Whatever is not of faith is sin.
     
  4. philosopher

    philosopher New Member

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    Yea jari good point. By the same logic, we could say that coffee is sorcery, because of the dopamine it releases in the brain. I mean where do we draw the line?
     
  5. Robin MacAoidh

    Robin MacAoidh New Member

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    The Power

    1Cr 6:12 ¶ All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

    There is a lot of wisdom in this verse: "...I will not be brought under the power of any."

    My past is no longer my present, nor is it my future...
    Bless the Lord, Oh my soul!
     
  6. fallen

    fallen Member

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    Science these last hundred years has progressed. I used to believe in the notion that the majority of drugs from pharma (This & last century) were born out of eugenics. I knew little and believed few. We had the inquisitions and many were put to death because of the herbal remedies they made.

    Sorcery is the use of spells and incantations when making potions for a specific benefit or downfall. I totally understand why one would consider the majority of pharma companies using sorcery as part of their making of the drugs we use. What if it was true and not just conspiracy theory?

    We have become a medicated society, some self-medicate through illicit drugs, yet some need specific medication to stay well and live longer and to manage life.

    We need to have a balanced point of view in this. I use medication to control my Bi-Polar and have used them for years and not had one Psychotic episode since. There are benefits from the medication we use. If you were a diabetic you would use insulin, if you had a heart bypass with valves you would use warfarin to thin the blood and the list goes on.

    Just some of my thoughts.
     
  7. lawrenceb

    lawrenceb Member

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    my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge

    Indeed, you and I have already discussed this in fair length. My wife and I have had an addictions ministry for many years. Perhaps there are others reading this now who wish to be freed from the bondage.

    The term "the original Greek" is misleading, as there are dozens of sources of "it." But the "pharmaceutical" equivalency is nonetheless correct.

    Correct, in part.

    The Word of God tells us that the love of money is the root of all evil, rich men oppress the poor, and merchants are equated with thieves. And the transnational drug corporations are among the richest merchants on the planet. They are dynastic blood-lined multi-generational satanists with incredible wealth and dominion who love money far more than they love you or me.


    However, this is where the deception begins. No, it's not about any "therapeutic help." It's about manipulation; it's about control. For as [a man] thinketh in his heart, so is he... (Proverbs 23:7 KJV). So it's first and foremost a spiritual battle for the mind.

    The word "therapeutic" means "pertaining to the healing of disease." Mister M.D.'s version of a disease "cure" is shameless: cut it out (surgery), burn it out (chemo), or poison it out (drugs). How their patient became afflicted in the first place is never seriously explored. Likewise with the phony claim that alcohol-ism is also a "disease" (rather, drunkenness is a sin).

    Why do folks look to man for their healing, when God is our only Healer?

    Exodus 15:26, ...if thou wilt indeed hear the voice of the LORD thy God, and do things pleasing before him, and will hearken to his commands, and keep all his ordinances, no disease...shall I bring upon thee, for I am the LORD thy God that heals thee.

    Exodus 23:25, And thou shalt serve the LORD thy God, and I will bless thy bread and thy wine and thy water, and I will turn away sickness from you.

    Deuteronomy 7:12,15, And it shall come to pass when ye shall have heard these ordinances, and shall have kept and done them, that...the LORD thy God shall remove from thee all sickness.


    Of course. And such has not changed through time; it's the same today. And today's pharmaceuticals are also just as addictive.

    If you buy into the "disorder" dia-gnosis (an occult term), then you also buy into the control trip that it is designed to implement i.e. one sin deceptively opens the door to another. This is how satan creates a bondage loop; he doesn't have to kill you outright, he can merely steal your walk. However, the Lord says,

    Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body... Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (Romans 6:12-15 KJV)

    Rather, ask God!

    The one you have submitted to is the one in control, e.g. the "medical professional" who told you that you have a "chemical imbalance" that needs to be treated with his drugs. The Word of God warns us that there is a form of obedience which leads to death. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:16 KJV)

    All of us "just wanted;" it's our collective sinful nature. But that doesn't make it right. Rather, God's will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10 KJV)

    As you've handed over that control to the one behind the making of the drugs, the end result is indeed out of your hands. BTW, a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) must accompany every drug the merchant sells. When one checks the list of side-effects, one will note that the drug can (and often does) cause the very symptoms it would purport to prevent e.g. depresson, suicide, schizophrenia, mania, ad nauseum.

    Firstly, do not automatically accept the M.D.'s label of "schizophrenic," because then you will render unto him... Secondly, why would a born again believer (or anyone) want to "block out part of their (God-given) brain"? Thirdly, we must be willing to look closer at who "is responsible for the delusion."

    A story in John chapter 5 bears repeating. In Jerusalem, at Bethesda pool, there was a great multitude of afflicted people (blind, lame, withered) waiting for the seasonal moving of the water by an angel, which imparted curing properties to the water. The first one to enter, after the angel, was the one who became healed. The story continues in verses five and six:

    And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years. When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole? (John 5:6)

    To some, Jesus' question seems a bit redundant; it would seem obvious that the man was there to be healed. Nevertheless, Jesus asked him the question.

    You'd think if the guy was serious about getting healed, he surely would have been able to get someone to take him into that pool at some point in that 38 years!

    And so the critical question remains: Do you want to be healed?


    The Lord has already created you with "sanity." The question is, Who would seek to remove it, and what should you do about it?

    There is no "difference" among "one set of drugs" or another; the end goal is the same: control and ultimately destruction.


    Some of the most diabolical drugs are over-the-counter.

    It is but one "description of sorcery;" as we've seen, there are others...
     
    #7 lawrenceb, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  8. philosopher

    philosopher New Member

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    Hi lawrence, thanks for stopping by again. Since we have already discussed this at length via PM, I won't address your entire post, point by point.

    I was just wanting to ask you a question though - do you apply the same standards for coffee, since it alters the neurotransmitters in the brain, and thus a similar mechanism as stimulants such as Ritalin? Hell would be extremely full if people were sent there for using coffee, with its psychotropic properties.....

    Also, what advice do you give people who are not miraculously healed of their mental problems on the spot? ''Carry on chap, and endure another 20 years of torment - maybe you will inherit eternal life!''
     
    #8 philosopher, Mar 24, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  9. lawrenceb

    lawrenceb Member

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    open doors

    Thanks for responding, philosopher.

    Excellent question! The short answer is, it's a matter of degree only -- and I cannot afford to offer up any control to the enemy.

    I'll give a personal example. Prior to marrying me, my wife was a coffee addict. She would not be without her daily fix. Eventually, her addiction began interfering with our day-to-day activities. And if she did not get her fix "on time," then there were consequences suffered (e.g. bad temper, ill feeling, massive headaches, etc.). Now this is not news to the caffeine crowd. I challenged her; I told her that if she would quit cold turkey, within one month her dream life would become more vivid, her interpersonal relationships would improve, and her physical health would return. She quit, and she healed.

    It's not about being damned for drinking coffee. It's about the enemy neutering your Godly walk. Recall that the Holy Bible tells us that there is a sin unto death. In other words, as a born again believer, you can do something stupid that could result in getting yourself killed. But that does not necessarily mean that you will go to hell for doing that stupid thing.

    We know that caffeine affects the mind, and not in a positive way. So why would any born again believer want to risk such conforming of his mind to the world when we are commanded to transform and renew our mind in Christ?

    And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:2 KJV)

    Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. (Psalm 51:10 KJV)

    You did not get into the spot you're in overnight; thus, you will probably not be freed from it overnight, either. (However, the Lord does see fit to bring instantaneous deliverance to some; the Lord did it for me in November 1996.) What my wife and I have learned is that rarely is there only one issue that needs to be dealth with. It is a culmination of bondages wherein the captive finally begins to manifest the desire to get set free. satan must operate within the legal framework set out for him by God. And God will not override your free-will choices; he is a Gentleman. For example, the spirit of pharmakeia is one devil; the spirit of addiction is another, and so on. We're talking about the devils bouncing you around from one bondage to another and another and back again; it's called a bondage loop (from which the devils hope you will never escape).

    Ask the Lord to show you the open doors, so that you can repent of them and close them and get set free.

    Yes! I understand your comment 100%. I am very tired of spiritually ignorant people making such damaging statements.

    My time has expired here at the internet cafe. I'll look forward to your reply when you're able.


     
  10. fallen

    fallen Member

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    Hello lawrenceb, Could you help clear my mind. Are you suggesting that Mental Illness come from Satan. I would like to draw upon your knowledge. Thanks in advance.
     
    #10 fallen, Mar 24, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  11. lawrenceb

    lawrenceb Member

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    I... create evil (Isaiah 45:7 KJV)

    As sinners, we can have many "needs" but we have no scriptural rights to lay a Lawful claim to any of those desires (e.g. "stay well," "live longer," and "manage life").

    [FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF] The only “rights” that Jesus Christ's bondmen have is the “right” (authority) to the Tree of Life (Revelation 22:14); none other is needed or desired; and all duties are to the Lord, not to the natural man:[/FONT]

    [FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]Revelation 22:14, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that their authority [*right] shall be to the tree of life, and by the gates they should go in to the city.” [/FONT]

    This line of thought is known as the Dialectic, wherein the linguistic system is used to dialogue a synthesis from two opposite polarities. The system is frequently reduced to the formula specified as thesis versus antithesis equals synthesis. Also known as the Hegelian Dialectic (after German philosopher Georg Hegel), this form of intellectual witchcraft has now penetrated all walks of modern life -- including religious doctrine. In the spiritual arena, it's crucial to see the process never really stops, but continues to dialogue away the absolute truth for the sake of continuing the discussion.

    Of course there would be perceived benefits. But no one wants to talk about the duties that are attached to the deal... With that contract, one will render unto Caesar what is due Caesar...

    Your question intimates otherwise.

    Nonetheless, illnesses come from either our imperfect sinful fallen nature (of which satan may become apartaker), or from God; these are the only two choices available.

    Further, are you suggesting that healing of a "Mental Illness" come from Satan[?]"

    Regardless, we've been talking about the spiritual (and physical) consequences of accepting pharmaceuticals as a healing solution, the bondages that result from that, and getting set free from those bondages.

     
    #11 lawrenceb, Mar 24, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  12. Fraction

    Fraction New Member

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    Pharmaceuticals do heal, help, and help heal people. The only bondages concerning these things are addictions. There is very apparent proof of this.
     
  13. twc130

    twc130 New Member

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    The issue here has always been a question in my mind that did not have an answer. I realize drugs are absolutely needed for some people and for others it a means to abuse and overtakes them.
    But you HIT it. The scriptures you put forth just halted all that mumble jumble endless discussions.

    Whats so cool about it that its SHORT, POWERFUL and the WORD of GOD at its best.
     
  14. philosopher

    philosopher New Member

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    Hi Lawrence, I must re-iterate, that I no longer take any psychotropic drugs. I tried using two drugs over a brief period of about a month and a half, with very little success. For some people however, they could have a drastic effect, and prevent them from committing suicide. Also, if you don't mind me asking mate, what did God deliver you from? Personal stories could be a breath of inspiration.

    My OCD and anxiety has been with me since my early teens, and long before I accepted Christ. However, in the beginning stages, it was rather mild and only noticeable on certain things. From 16-19, I got heavily caught up in the (illegal) drug scene and after quitting, it seemed to worsen considerably.
     
  15. philosopher

    philosopher New Member

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    One example I can think of is this- if your family member was rushed to emergency, having epileptic seizures, wouldn't you take a benzodiazepine drug to quell the symptoms, instead of risking possible death?

    Some of these drugs target both the mind (psychotropic) but also deliver relief for physical symptoms. I honestly don't believe the issue at hand is so ''black and white''.
     
  16. Fraction

    Fraction New Member

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    Honestly nothing is in black and white, or really that simple. I agree with you that drugs are exactly one of those things.

    Drugs are good but also bad.

    Drugs have both negative and positive effects. Adapting to a drug could cause you to become sick for a few days. Taking a drug could cause an allergic reaction. Abusing a drug could cause an unhealthy addiction. Sometimes drugs can actually just make you sick because your body actually rejects it. The negative side effects that I have listed can easily be dealt with, but they are not limited to just these.

    Drugs are for solving an issue or for aiding the body through it. They are also used to cope with pain during the healing process. Sometimes they are used to help relieve chronic or permanent suffering from pain, anxiety, mental illnesses, and so on.

    My point is, is that drugs should be taken with extreme caution. All from noticing side effects to not being too dependent on them to the point that you become addicted.

    From a Christian perspective, it is wise to ask God to stay with you and to help heal you. Not to mention ask God to provide you with enough information to actually stay safe while using drugs for the correct reasons. God does heal us, but he heals us in many different ways. In my honest opinion, medicines and doctors are miracles themselves when used correctly or they are doing what they are supposed to do.

    I hope this provides much more than my simple response earlier on what my take is on this subject. :)
     
  17. lawrenceb

    lawrenceb Member

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    trauma-based fear is the master

    Thanks, philosopher, for getting back to this thread.

    The majority live in fear -- fear of death. It's through basic life-and-death issues that satan manipulates the masses.

    As is typical, I see a couple of responses here from frightened people who have given their decision-making powers to someone else.

    A question for you, philosopher: Was it the Lord who told you to submit to the transnational drug corporations?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The following is a post of mine from a different thread ("scary movies") that is also relevant here:

    And you may have noticed in other recent threads the mention of trauma-based fear. Since there is no love in satan's camp, fear is the master. The enemy hits us with a trauma, then layers-in the fear programming -- and the proliferation of "scary" movies is merely part and parcel of this tactic. Also included would be both World Wars, 9-11, OK City, sinking of the Andrea Doria, Pearl Harbor, ad nauseum. Adolph Hitler clandestinely burned down his own Reichstag (headquarters) to further his political agenda. "Create the problem you need" is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

    Demons are attracted by the "scent" of people. We are made in the image of God, and we are attractive prey to those who hate God Almighty. Cities are magnets for demons. When demons target a person or people, a common tactic is to make trouble for the person. When a person's problems reach a crescendo, they will be in a state of mind to grab any solution that is passing by. People then make pacts with demonic forces. They sell their souls hoping for relief from their problems.

    All this is clear as a bell to the spiritually enlightened, but the demonic forces are able to dull the senses of their victims to the point they no longer have the slightest realization that they have sold their souls. People make a choice to accept the falsehood offered by the demons for their relief, rather than stick with the truth which seems to hurt. The demonic lies may be that colds and flu's are caused by evil spirits--when in reality they are caused by viruses and bacteria. Or the opposite type of lie may be given, that demonic forces have no influence over disease, that only viruses and bacteria exist.

    In Africa, modern medicine is often viewed as White Man's magic, because they fight disease with incantations which the demons have taught them to use to cure their problems. Authority to demons is transferred to them by festivals, ceremonies and pilgrimages.

    Strong demonic manifestations usually occur around festivals, ceremonies, rituals and pilgrimages which are being done everyday around the world. These ceremonies and rituals are welcome mats for demonic forces giving them the right to rule. Every area of the world has them. And often demonic signs and wonders occur at these rituals and ceremonies. The power of a lie has to be preserved and fueled by tradition, which is manifested via rituals. Without tradition the power of the lie would die out. If the tradition is being rejected by a people, the demons often augment it with "new" deceptions. The first lie doesn't stand a chance.

    The pre-existing bondage then is strengthened by new deceptions that seem more appropriate. If you were asked now, "HOW DOES SATAN ENSLAVE PEOPLE?" you should know the answer because it was just given it to you. The answer is Satan's control is trauma-based. A trauma is applied to the lives of people. They reach out for some type of answer to the trauma, and the demons offer some type of answer--so many Hail Marys, or so many sacrificed cats, or pray to some idol which is a disguised demon. The lies are turned into myths which the people believe. The myths are a blurring of reality which the people on one level may know are false, but their minds can't break loose of the power of the lie. The power of the myths are fueled by tradition and demonic manifestations and demonic attacks.

    Anyone who steps outside of the demonic lie is attacked. The people feel they are being personally attacked when their traditions are ignored. Because a people has willingly sacrificed the truth for the falsehood in their need for relief from their trauma, they have chosen to be deceived. This choice to be deceived has a great deal of spiritual power to it. They are no longer truth-lovers. It is not enough to come to these people with the truth. They have rejected the truth. They must at some point will to seek the truth again. These people can have all the proof shown to them about the truth, and they will continue to reject it. Their demonic bondage needs to be broken somehow.

    This bondage can be broken in a number of ways. Pointing out the inadequacies of the lies is sometimes sufficient to break the demonic spell over people. But after the lies are broken, they need to be followed by the truth--and the love of truth. The programming that is being done to humanity on a large scale can also being scaled down and applied to a single human body.

    Trauma and lies are used in the same way. Souls are sold to the lies in return for their safety. A basic ingredient to the programming of a group of people is the same--trauma and fear.
     
  18. Fraction

    Fraction New Member

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    I actually agree with a lot you have said lawrenceb. I am just not buying into the stand against modern medicine. I won't sugarcoat it, I strongly believe some of your views to be fueled by conspiracy theories that have been made up and continue to have a strong lack of evidence. No offense at all, but I am just being honest. I hope that you can respect that.

    This is a really good post though, and was a good read. Thank you. :)
     
  19. philosopher

    philosopher New Member

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    An easy way to dismantle plenty of the conspiracies is to examine a persons relationship with Christ. We know that sin separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2) - so if these people were truly in bondage, and sinning, they wouldn't be able to love the Lord and have that kind of personal relationship with him. And many people using medication have good hearts and are walking in the spirit. I'm still deciding not to turn back to psychotropic drugs, but for other reasons...
     
  20. fallen

    fallen Member

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    I can understand philosopher why you would not want to turn back to psychotropic drugs. I for one wish I did not have to take any at all and just trust God for my healing. I have experienced psychosis and it was scary even far back as 1995 before I knew I was Bi-Polar.

    lawrenceb
    lawrenceb are you of the belief that only God can deliver and no one else?
     

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