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    Matthew 7:21-23

    Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"

    And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."

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New World Translation

Discussion in 'The Evidence & Prophecy' started by Chad, Sep 21, 2012.

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  1. Chad

    Chad Administrator
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    The New World Translation and "Proskuneo" (worship)


    The chart below is a list of every occurrence of the Greek word "proskuneo" that I could find in The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures (1969). This work was produced by the New World Translation Bible (NWT) committee in accordance with the Watchtower organization. An interlinear is a word-for-word translation of the Greek text. Included in this Watchtower interlinear is the text of the New World Translation Bible placed in a column on each page so the reader can see exactly how the NWT renders each occurrence of the verb "proskuneo."

    The word "proskuneo" means "to kiss the hand, bow down before, show obeisance, to worship." Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God, they maintain that He is not to be worshipped. So, how does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society translate the word "proskuneo" in their Greek New Testament in reference to Jesus and other objects of adoration? The NWT never translates the word into "worship" when it references Jesus. It does, however, render the word as "worship" in regards to the devil, the dragon, the beast, the image, demons, idols, and an angel. Of course, they correctly translate it as "worship" when it deals with God.

    Is the New World Translation biased against worshipping Jesus? It would surely seem so, especially since the NASB, NIV, KJV, NKJV, etc., all translate the word as "worship" in reference to Jesus.

    What is curious is to note that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society used to teach that worshipping Jesus was acceptable:

    "The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Yes we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. While he was not the God, Jehovah, he was a God. The word ‘God’ signifies a ‘mighty one,’ and our Lord was indeed a mighty one. So it is stated in the first two verses of the gospel of John. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father. . ." (The Watchtower, July 15, 1898, p. 216.)


    It seems that as the Watchtower theology changed, they needed a Bible consistent with those changes; hence, the New World Translation. Following is a chart listing every appearance of the word "proskuneo" in the New World Translation. Let's see if the bias of the Watchtower organization is obvious.

    The word "proskuneo" occurs 55 times in the Watchtower Kingdom. Interlinear. Of those 55, 15 are in reference to Jesus with 40 used of others. 27% of the usage is of Jesus and not a single reference is translated as "worship" even though in reference to the devil, demons, idols, etc., they do translate it as worship. If this doesn't demonstrate their bias, then what does?


    [TABLE="class: carm-table-with-border"]
    <tbody>
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Verse[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Jesus[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]God[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Demons[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]dragon,
    beast,
    image
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Devil[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Generic[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Idols[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Peter[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]angel[/TD]

    Matt. 2:2
    obeisance









    Matt. 2:8
    obeisance









    Matt. 2:11
    obeisance









    Matt. 4:9




    worship





    Matt. 4:10

    worship








    Matt. 8:2
    obeisance









    Matt. 9:18
    obeisance









    Matt. 14:33
    obeisance









    Matt. 15:25
    obeisance









    Matt. 18:26





    obeisance




    Matt. 20:20
    obeisance









    Matt. 28:9
    obeisance









    Matt. 28:17
    obeisance









    Mark 5:6
    obeisance









    Mark 15:19
    obeisance









    Luke 4:7




    worship





    Luke 4:8

    worship








    Luke 24:52
    obeisance









    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Verse[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Jesus[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]God[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Demons[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]dragon,
    beast,
    image
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Devil[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Generic[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Idols[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Peter[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]angel[/TD]

    John 4:20

    worship








    John 4:21

    worship








    John 4:22

    worship








    John 4:23

    worship








    John 4:23

    worship








    John 4:24

    worship








    John 9:38
    obeisance









    John 12:20





    worship




    Acts 7:43






    worship



    Acts 8:27





    worship




    Acts 10:25







    obeisance


    Acts 24:11





    worship




    1 Cor. 14:25

    worship








    Heb. 1:6
    obeisance









    Heb. 11:21

    worship








    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Verse[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Jesus[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]God[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Demons[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]dragon,
    beast,
    image
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Devil[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Generic[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Idols[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]Peter[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #eaf2ff"]angel[/TD]

    Rev. 3:9





    obeisance




    Rev. 4:10

    worship








    Rev. 5:14

    worship








    Rev. 7:11

    worship








    Rev. 9:20


    worship







    Rev. 11:1





    worship




    Rev. 11:16

    worship








    Rev. 13:4



    worship






    Rev. 13:8



    worship






    Rev. 13:12



    worship






    Rev. 13:15



    worship






    Rev. 14:7

    worship








    Rev. 14:9



    worship






    Rev. 14:11



    worship






    Rev. 15:4

    worship








    Rev. 16:2



    worship






    Rev. 19:4

    worship








    Rev. 19:10

    worship








    Rev. 19:20



    worship






    Rev. 20:4



    worship






    Rev. 22:8








    worship

    Rev. 22:9

    worship







    </tbody>[/TABLE]
    <tbody> </tbody>
    As you can see, the NWT is very bias in how it translates the word "proskuneo." Whenever it is in reference to Jesus, they absolutely will not let it be translated as worship. Why? Because they erringly deny that Jesus is God in flesh and their Bible reflects their bias. This is not how proper theology is done.

    The Watchtower Organization has changed the Bible to suit its needs.

    source: The New World Translation and "Proskuneo" (worship) | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
     
  2. Strypes

    Strypes Active Member

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    This single point demonstrates the bias of the NWT (to belittle Jesus to support their false doctrines).

    Their deliberately deceptive Bible translation is full of these chosen misuses of vocabulary. In many cases they chose to use the most befuddled option to promote confusion.

    For example:

    Isaiah 53:5

    KJV
    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed

    ESV
    But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

    NIV
    But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

    Now for the NWT (Watchtower Bible)

    But he was being pierced for our transgression; he was being crushed for our errors. The chastisement meant for our peace was upon him, and because of his wounds there has been a healing for us.


    That is just one example of how they make "difficult" a verse.


    I will try to find the information on their "secret" translation committee.

    I read an article several years ago that I will try to find. The Watchtower claimed that the people on the committee wanted to remain anonymous because they didn't want to be "prideful" when the truth of the matter was that they knew what they were doing was wrong and didn't want to be associated with it. If I remember correctly, some of them even committed suicide and most were not scholars at all but regular men given the task to create a Bible that changed passages to support Watchtower doctrines. For example, every where there was the word "Cross" they replaced it with "torture stake" and everywhere it said "crucify/ crucified" They replaced it with "impaled".
     
  3. Strypes

    Strypes Active Member

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    This is not the article I referenced in my previous post. That was written by the son of the committee member that committed suicide. I read it several years ago and bookmarked it, but I have had several computers since. I will keep looking for it.

    I did find this article on "Got Questions 'dot' com" That discusses some of the questionably translated passages.

    Please take note of the references to John 1:1. (One of the main verses the Watchtower uses to belittle Jesus)

     
    #3 Strypes, Sep 21, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  4. Strypes

    Strypes Active Member

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    Something most Jehovah's witnesses don't know.
     
  5. Strypes

    Strypes Active Member

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    Ok..
    I have googled for many hours and can not find that article that I read years ago. I googled the names that Raymond Franz gave and can't find much on any of them other than they were the committee and none of them would be considered "scholars". George Gangas did speak Greek (modern Greek) because he was greek but had no training in ancient Greek.

    I did find a few interesting bits on Fred Franz. He claimed he was asked to be a Rhodes Scholar... but turned it down.

    At the University of Cincinnati, Fred Franz had quite a few "A"'s some "B"'s and Five "C"'s...

    NOT Rhodes Scholar material. Seems the President of the Watchtower society had delusions of grander.

    Anyway, I can't find the article I was looking for. Sorry.
     
    #5 Strypes, Sep 21, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  6. jonjon

    jonjon New Member

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    Thanks for your hard work! This will be something people can reference in future dates.
     
  7. Jaareshiah

    Jaareshiah New Member

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    Is the New World Translation really biased or has the translators done their "homework" so as to render accurately both Hebrew and Greek words ? What have other translations rendered many of the Scriptures noted above that involved the Greek proskyneo ? Unlike the churches, who never make real progress in their Bible studies, who remain "stagnant" in their understanding of the Bible and unlocking "the mysteries of the kingdom", Jehovah's Witnesses realize that the Bible is unveiled according to Jehovah God's timetable.

    These grasp the meaning of Psalms 97:10, 11, which says: "O you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad.....Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one." What is meant by this, that "light itself has flashed up for the righteous one" ? Is this speaking of literal light ? No. Light in the Bible is associated with Bible truth, whereas darkness is associated with falsehood.

    Thus, our Creator, Jehovah God, according to his timetable in these "last days", reveals Bible truths to "babes" (or humble teachable ones) that have been hidden from all others. Jesus said: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes."(Matt 11:25)

    At Proverbs 4, it says that "the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established."(Prov 4:18) The churches have never understood these words, but continue to dish out the "same old thing", week after week, month after month, year after year. Jesus used a very significant Greek word some six times when giving several illustrations concerning "the kingdom of the heavens", sy·ni´e·mi, which means "to mentally put the pieces together". Most, including the churches, are unable "to mentally put the pieces together", regarding the Bible, not comprehending as for example what the "kingdom" is.

    Concerning this, Jesus said to his disciples: "To you it is granted to understand ("understand", Greek gnonai, meaning "to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of ", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 117, G1097) the sacred secrets ("sacred secrets", Greek mysteria, meaning "a hidden thing, secret, mystery", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 420, G3466) of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted. For whoever has, more will be given him and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it." (Matt 13:11-13, "get the sense of it", sy·ni´e·mi, meaning "to put together, i.e. [mentally] to comprehend", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G4920, "to set or join together in the mind", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 605)

    Now concerning the Greek word proskyneo, how have several different Bibles rendered this word at Matthew 2:2 ? The King James Bible says "worship", Young's Bible says "bow to him", Darby's Bible says "homage", along with Weymouth's New Testament, Webster's Bible says "worship", along with the International Standard Version and William's New Testament.

    At Matthew 2:8, the King James Bible says "worship", Young's Bible says "bow to him", Darby's Bible "homage" along with Weymouth's New Testament, Webster's Bible says "worship", along with the International Standard Version but William's New Testament says "homage". Thus, there is no unanimity across the board concerning proskyneo meaning "worship".

    The Emphatic Diaglott reads in the interlinear at Matthew 2:2 as "to do homage" (right column as "homage"), at 2:8 as "pay homage" (right column as "pay him reverence"), 2:11 as "did homage" (right column as "prostrating"), 4:9 as "do homage" (right column as "worship me"), 4:10 as "worship" (right column as "worship"), 8:2 as "prostrated" (right column as "prostrated").

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible says of proskyneo: "to fawn or crouch to; i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage". Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament says: "to kiss the hand to (towards) one, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead, prostration to do homage (to one) or make obesiance."(G4352, pg 548)

    Hence, the Greek word proskyneo has several meanings and nuances, but with regard to our Creator, Jehovah God, it always means "worship", for Jesus said to Satan, quoting from Deuteronomy 5:9 and 10:20: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God (not Jesus) you must worship (Greek proskynesis), and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.' '' (Matt 4:10, "sacred service", Greek latreuseis, meaning "to minister (to God), i.e. render religious homage", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G3000)
     
    #7 Jaareshiah, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  8. Cariad Iesu

    Cariad Iesu Member

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    Bless you Strypes for your hard work on this thread.
     
  9. Strypes

    Strypes Active Member

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    As evidenced in the OP by Chad and expounded upon in my post... yes it is biased.


    The following Quote is from "Watching the Watchtower"

    Actual Greek Scholars say it is "Biased"



    Propaganda technique.. "only we have accurate knowledge".. I think that is #3 on what constitutes a cult.

    Additionally, this comment is an insult to the believers on this site.

    Final thought on the loaded language in this comment, the purpose is to set up the false doctrine of "old light" and "new light". This is part of what the Watchtower uses to white wash their false prophecies (old light) and change their dates and doctrines and the rank and file witnesses are not allowed to even question it. They are to suppress their cognitive dissonance or risk being marked and shunned. One earmarks of all cults is that it's members must relinquish all thought and reason to a person or organization. The JW's guise it as you are being "prideful" if you think for yourself. Independent thinking is a disfellowshipping offense.

    Within the Jehovah's Witness Organization, questioning or testing is not permitted. If someone is discovered researching them (Organization, the governing body, leaders, elders etc) they are punished swiftly. They are disfellowshipped for examining the organization. That's when they really discover the cruel, ungodly spirit that really persist within this cult. Family members and friends must shun you, and have nothing to do with you. They can't talk or have any communication with you. The WT is so callous that they will help you examine the teachings of other religious groups, but will destroy you if you question or examine them. Proverbs 18:17 reminds us; " He who states his case first seems right until his rival comes and cross-examines him." The Bible approves of testing and questioning spiritual things and doctrines, even encourages it. The WT strong armed policies of silencing its critics is UN-biblical.



    This is an example of taking a phrase out of context to promote their false doctrines.

    Psalm 97 (the whole psalm)

    The Jehovah's witnesses will use this to promote their "new light" deception by using a verse or phrase out of context. For those of you reading this that are not familiar with Watchtower doctrine, they will call their past mistakes and failed prophecies "old light" and the "New light" is the current "light" that could change next week. For example "old light" was that receiving a blood transfusion was cannibalism (like eating blood). It was a severe violation and if you (or let a family member/child) receive blood, you would be disfellowshiped. If you refused a blood transfusion for your self or your spouse or child and they died (which they often did) you would be praised by the Organization for "Putting Jehovah first"... you may even make the cover of the magazine.. Tiz true.

    Thousands have died because of this policy. Over the years, as the Watchtower has paid out judgements to the many lawsuits of recent years.. There is now "NEW LIGHT".. it is now a "matter of conscious decision" You will still be shunned if you do but the liability factor for the Watchtower has been removed.


    Another twisting of scripture to promote their policies and under gird their loaded language

    Proverbs 4 (the whole thing)

    It has nothing to do with changing doctrines.




    The remainder of Jaareshiah's post is distraction and avoidance. Trying to appear knowledgeable of that which he has copy and pasted from Watchtower publications.

     
  10. Strypes

    Strypes Active Member

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    : )

    I like your signature verse.

    Matthew 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.
     
  11. Jaareshiah

    Jaareshiah New Member

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    Such Bibles as the King James Bible has thousands of accuracies and has shown bias (and is archaic in language, with "thees and thous"), yet many accept it without question. For example, at 1 Corinthians 10:24, it reads: "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth." Is the apostle Paul exhorting Christians to ' seek not his own wealth but that of another person's' ? From the rendering of the King James Bible, it says to do so. If this were accurate, then this would encourage greed.

    The New World Translation reads at 1 Corinthians 10:24: "Let each one keep seeking, not his own [advantage], but that of the other person." Obviously, Paul did not say to ' seek every's man's wealth', but if one accepts the rendering of the King James Bible, it would certainly seem so. This is just one of many instances.

    Many languages have numerous Bible translations. Some translations use difficult, archaic language. Others are free, paraphrased translations that aim for easy reading rather than accuracy. Still others are literal, almost word-for-word translations.

    The English edition of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses, was prepared directly from the original languages by an anonymous committee. This version, in turn, has been the primary text used for translations in over 60 other languages besides English. Translators for those languages did, however, make extensive comparisons with the original-language text. The New World Translation aims for a literal rendering of the original-language text whenever such a rendering would not hide its meaning. The translators seek to make the Bible as understandable to readers today as the original text was to readers in Bible times.

    Some linguists have examined modern Bible translations—including the New World Translation—for examples of inaccuracy and bias. One such scholar is Jason David BeDuhn, professor of religious studies at Northern Arizona University in the United States (holding a Bachelor of Arts in Religious studies from the University of Illinois, Urbana, a Master of Theological Studies in New Testament and Christian Origins from Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. in the Comparative Study of Religions from Indiana University, Bloomington).

    In 2003 he published a 200-page study of nine of “the Bibles most widely in use in the English-speaking world.” His study examined several passages of Scripture that are controversial, for that is where “bias is most likely to interfere with translation.” (Beduhn compared the King James, the (New) Revised Standard, the New International, the New American Bible, the New American Standard Bible, the Amplified Bible, the Living Bible, Today's English and the NWT versions in Mattthew 28:9, Phillipians 2:6, Colossians 1:15-20, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, John 8:58, and John 1:1) For each passage, he compared the Greek text with the renderings of each English translation, and he looked for biased attempts to change the meaning. What was his assessment ?

    BeDuhn points out that the general public and many Bible scholars assume that the differences in the New World Translation are due to religious bias on the part of its translators. However, he states: “Most of the differences are due to the greater accuracy of the NW as a literal, conservative translation.” While BeDuhn disagrees with certain renderings of the New World Translation, he says that this version “emerges as the most accurate of the translations compared.” He calls it a “remarkably good” translation.

    Dr. Benjamin Kedar, a Hebrew scholar in Israel, made a similar comment concerning the New World Translation. In 1989 he said: “In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible. Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language, it renders the original words into a second language understandably without deviating unnecessarily from the specific structure of the Hebrew. . . . Every statement of language allows for a certain latitude in interpreting or translating. So the linguistic solution in any given case may be open to debate. But I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain.”(quoted in the March 1, 1991 Watchtower)

    Following this quotation of Professor Kedar's comments in the above Watchtower article, he received much mail from those who wanted to know if he had been quoted correctly and by those who had a different view point from his. He replied to some, but, from a certain time, sent out a statement instead.(his quotation was upon the agreement that it be quoted in full)

    He responded (in 1995): "Since several individuals and institutions have addressed me concerning the following matter, I make this statement; henceforth it will be sent instead of a personal letter to anyone appealing to me to clarify my position.

    "1) Several years ago I quoted the so-called New World Translation among several Bible versions in articles that dealt with purely philological [pertaining to the study/science of languages] questions(such as the rendition of the causative hiphil, of the particple qotel). In the course of my comparative studies I found the NWT rather illuminating: it gives evidence of an acute awareness of the structural characteristics of hebrew as well as an honest effort to faithfully render these in the target [English] language. A translation is bound to be a compromise, and as such it's details are open to criticism; this applies to the NWT too. In the portion corresponding to the hebrew Bible, however, I have never come upon an obviously erroneous rendition which would find it's explanation in a dogmatic bias. Repeatedly I have asked the antagonists of the Watchtower-Bible who turned to me for a clarification of my views, to name specific verses for a renewed scrutiny. This was either not done or else the verse submitted (e.g. Genesis 4:13, 6:3, 10:9, 15:5, 18:20 etc.) did not prove the point, namely a tendentious [with a purposed aim/biased] translation."

    "2) I beg to make clear that I do not feel any sympathy for any sect and this includes Jehovah's Witnesses. Of course, my mistrust is not directed against the individual member of such sect but rather against the organisation that manipulates him and puts forward its dogmas and rules as the ultimate truth. It should be conceded, however, that the groups and organisations that fiercely oppose the witnesses do not behave any better. On the whole, synagogue, church and mosque also tend to exhibit dogmatic arrogance coupled with intolerance of and enmity with other confessions."

    "3)I cannot help expressing my deep conviction that the search for truth will never benefit by linguistic quibble. Whether the author using the word naephaesh denoted 'soul' as opposed to body(Lev 17:11) or meant something else, whether 'almah' means 'virgin' or 'young woman'(Is 7:14) is of great interest to philologists and historians of religion; an argument for or against blood transfusion or the virgin-birth of Jesus respectively, cannot be derived from it."

    "4)Obviously, it is man's destiny to make the choice of his way a matter of conscience and to the best of his knowledge. There exists no simple set of rules such as could be learned from the mouth of a guru or the pages of an ancient venerable book. Those who pretend to act according to an infallible guide, more often than not interpret the texts in accordance with their preconceived wishes and notions."

    Some seek to undermine the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses by attacking either them or the New World Translation.(2 Corinthians 11:13) Rather than simply use the Bible as the basis for true teachings, they concentrate on trying to discredit the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, as if Jehovah’s Witnesses were wholly dependent on it for support. But this is not so.

    For the best part of a century, the Witnesses used primarily the King James Version, the Roman Catholic Douay Version, or whatever versions were available in their language, to learn the truth about Jehovah and his purposes. And they used these older versions in proclaiming the truth about the condition of the dead, the relationship between God and his Son, and why only a little flock go to heaven. Informed persons are also aware that Jehovah’s Witnesses continue to use many translations of the Bible in their worldwide evangelizing work. Since 1961, however, they have additionally enjoyed the use of the New World Translation, with its updated, accurate translation and fine readability.

    And concerning grasping the Greek word syneimi, what was written down is not ' copied and pasted' , but results from my own personal research.
     
    #11 Jaareshiah, Sep 26, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  12. Chad

    Chad Administrator
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    Jehovah's Witness = cult, unbiblical and corrupt.

    Get your facts straight once and for all. Any further preaching of JW promotion will result in your account being suspended. We have provided you so much ample facts exposing JW cult and you have rejected everything. You clearly do not care about truth whatsoever, but to promote your own understanding.
     
  13. Jaareshiah

    Jaareshiah New Member

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    Why are you willing to suspend my account, when it is Strypes that is attacking Jehovah's Witnesses and I have been just responding with accurate information ? This is no different than Stephen be stoned for defending true Christianity. (Acts 7) I can well say that I am not surprised, for Jesus warned his genuine disciples that these would be "hated" throughout the earth.(John 15:18)

    What should this be called ? Biased. Not allowing an accurate rebuttal is not justice, but is just as the Jewish religious leaders trying to silence Jesus, even when he overwhelmingly proved his credentials as the Messiah by even raising the dead.(John 11:53)

    I was thrown off this forum in April 2011 (because of the dealing with the trinity), but was allowed back just about 2 months ago. I will not hold back from accurately explaining Bible truth, in following Jesus example.

    If this does not satisfy, then suspend my account. As Jesus said: "When they persecute you in one city, flee to another; "(Matt 10:23)
     
    #13 Jaareshiah, Sep 26, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  14. Chad

    Chad Administrator
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    Jesus also said

    Matthew 7:15
    "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

    We gave you ample proof that JW is a cult and that you are spreading false doctrine.
     
  15. Strypes

    Strypes Active Member

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    Jaareshiah,

    This forum is "Talk Jesus". The one and only Jesus, our risen savior and Lord. It is NOT about Michael the angel.

    Jehovah's witnesses believe that Jesus was not raised (literally) from the dead. The WatchTower teaches that his physical body ceased to exist and he was "raised" a spiritual being.

    I could post thirty scriptures to dispute the watchtower's "accurate knowledge" but one will do..

    Romans 10:9
    "if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord, " and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

    Jesus was literally raised from the dead. Jesus' physical body did not cease to exist. He is alive now and forever more. We are His witnesses as He lives through us. We are born again of His Spirit. Jesus (the real Jesus) said to Nicodemus, that we must be born again.

    John 3:3
    "Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."


    Your cult denies you that wonderful relationship. You have had "Mother" come between you and Jesus.

    The organization purposefully denies "the great crowd" the relationship that Jesus came to restore. Your religion denies you the promises of God by teaching that those scriptures are for only 144000 folks who claim to be anointed.

    Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." 12 But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree" 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.


    Your "jesus" is a fabrication of the watchtower society.

    This site is not about perpetuating the watchtowers lies. It is about Jesus, the real Jesus.

    We will continue to expose false doctrines for what they are, lies.

    I am so sorry that you have spent much of your life bowing to an idol. It must be very hard to realize you have been tricked into believing a lie. The Watchtower is a CORPORATION. A Publishing COMPANY!.. They are billionaires! Yet you must struggle to put food on your own table because they demand so much from their "publishers"..

    I hope you stay around and seek Truth. The little flock is not the 144000 self professed anointed. The "little flock" were the his deciples.

    Luke 12
    22 And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat, nor about your body, what you will put on. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. 24 Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds! 25 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? 26 If then you are not able to do as small a thing as that, why are you anxious about the rest? 27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 28 But if God so clothes the grass, which is alive in the field today, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith! 29 And do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be worried. 30 For all the nations of the world seek after these things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 Instead, seek his kingdom, and these things will be added to you. 32 "Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

    If the Watchtower insist that their "anointed" are the "little flock" then why are they not taking care of the poor?

    The Watchtower wants you to sell your possessions and give the money to THEM! They do not help the poor at all and the World wide Work fund's is used to pay out judgements against the CORPORATION!
     
  16. Strypes

    Strypes Active Member

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    Jaareshiah,

    In the "seek truth" (off topic thread) I challenged you regarding the sheep and the goats. You ignored it. Jesus was quite descriptive of who were sheep (those that cared for others) and who were the goats (those that did not help). Jesus said, "whatever you have done to the least of these, you have done it unto me"...

    Jehovah's Witnesses actions are in line with the goats. Tiz true.

    this next passage of Scripture was about the Pharisees, but it is also a characteristic of your cult.

    Matthew 23: 13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.

    Jaareshiah,

    I know it is not easy to realize that the organization that you have trusted for so long has played you for a fool, but think for yourself and consider the words of Jesus. God wants all to come to a saving knowledge of Him. Jesus did not die for the few but for all who call upon HIS Name.
     
  17. Strypes

    Strypes Active Member

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    You didn't ignore it actually. You defended the watchtower's policy of not helping anyone, not even their own.
     

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