Mormon's Scrubbed from 'cult' list

Discussion in 'News Stand' started by stephen, Oct 23, 2012.

Share This Page

  1. stephen

    Moderator
    Staff Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,252
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Yorkshire
  2. Christ4Ever

    Moderator
    Staff Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    256
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Delaware
    I'm not really surprised by this brother. When I heard Billy Graham in a short circuit feed into the Crystal Cathedral years back state that there are many ways to God, it let me know that faithfulness to the Word of God can take unexpected turns, never envisioned, even to ourselves. Especially in the things that we hold most dear.

    Truly sad. For political expedience the faith is sacrificed.

    Thanks for sharing brother.

    YBIC
    Nick
     
  3. farout

    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Central Missour
    Stephen: I have some serious concerns about the article. I will fact check this article and see if possible tjere is more to it. ad I will report back. At 93 I hope I am as alert as Billy is.
     
  4. jiggyfly

    New Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    somewhere else
    #4 jiggyfly, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
    Do not all religions meet the requirements to be considered a "cult"? Religion and politics employ the same tactics and it takes a lot of energy to get to the top, only to find out that regret is on their horizon. I am praying for both Billy and Mitt.

    We all would do better to keep our eyes on Jesus. I am going to vote, but all my expectations are on Father.
     
  5. stephen

    Moderator
    Staff Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,252
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Many Ways can lead to Christ...........But only Christ the 'Door' leads to God.
     
  6. Shutterbug

    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    WRT to Mr. Graham and anyone else at the mountain top: no matter which way you turn to walk, the only direction is down. And, there is no shortage of people willing to help. The primary reason the Mormons achieved a cult status is because of their allegiance to the Book of Moroni, in addition to the Bible. While Mormons consider the book important, I'm not aware of any Mormon (LDS member) claiming it can replace the Bible although it seems in their mind that the Book of Mormon is pretty much supplementary to completing the ministry of Jesus. Therefore, it could be argued that the Mormon denomination considers the Bible to be incomplete. My theory is that if the Bible fails, Moroni's book will fail as well.
     
  7. farout

    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Central Missour
    There is more than just the book of Morman. They do not beliebe Jesus was the One and Only Son of God. They believe sommme day they will become like god once was.
     
  8. Shutterbug

    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Physical son of God, yes. A literal son of God, no. I had forgotten about us becoming like gods. While it's not really practiced anymore, Joseph Smith (founder of Mormonism) instituted something called celestial marriages. It seems that while having a physical wife was taken seriously, there existed something call celestial marriages which was not copulated. There is a sect of the LDS which still practices polygamy for the same purported reason. I'm going by my last conversations with Mormon missionaries who seemed very serious about getting right with God through Jesus Christ. While we touched on some past practices, they weren't dwelt on because they can become a distraction. Otherwise, they seemed quite sincere about salvation. I also have Jehovah Witness members drop by on occasion.

    Having said that, don't you think it's entirely strange that they're willing to go knocking on doors while the real Christians are not?
     
  9. jiggyfly

    New Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    somewhere else
    I know many Christian groups who do go door to door but with groceries rather than a recruiting pitch.
     
  10. B-A-C

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington
    Quite simply, the definition of a cult by Christian standards was a "Christian religion that denies the diety of Jesus Christ".

    Mormons don't believe Jesus is 'THE God' of all creation. They believe he is 'a god'. We can all become Gods in their theology.
    They don't believe he is he only begotten Son of God, they believe he is Satan's brother, a created being, a son of God.

    Jehovah's witnesses don't believe in the Trinity. Jesus is another God as well. He didn't rise again in the flesh, only in the spirit. Check this against 1 John 4:1-3
    Of course we all have a Spirit after physical death, so Jesus isn't really that much different from the rest of us according to them.

    Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Ba'Hai, New Age, these religions aren't cults because they don't claim to be Christian religions. They are simply false religions.
    The Roman Catholics recognize the diety of Jesus Christ, and the trinity, so technically they aren't a cult, however they don't believe his resurrection and our faith in him are enough for salvation, good works and other things are required. They believe the immaculate conception wasn't Jesus, but Mary. They believe she lived a sinless life.
    They believe that the Pope is the head of the church on earth, not Jesus Christ directly. They believe that Jesus isn't our only mediator between men and God, they call Mary a mediatrix. There are many other things about the Roman Catholics that have been discussed here before (the rosary, mass, priests, etc...) so again, they are closer to a false religion than a cult.
     
  11. Rev T.S.Perkins

    Moderator
    Staff Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,177
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    #11 Rev T.S.Perkins, Dec 26, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
    the bible is very clear on this,,If they claim Christ but deny the power thereof .avoidance is the best policy.. I placed this in a prior post but in the book of morman ,first page bottom row ..It says if any problems are found in the book they are the faults of man and to not blame God...REALLY a disclaimer .!Gods word is with out fault which one would you rather seek the Lord from.????
     
  12. aharris0922

    New Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes we do, we believe that he was the only begotten son...This is where you should read before deciding that this is true...Been Mormon all my life :)
     
  13. Remnant Frank

    New Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Do you believe that He is God incarnate? Do you believe that He is the spiritual brother of Satan? Do you believe that Mormons are Christians?
     
  14. B-A-C

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington
    #14 B-A-C, Feb 20, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
    You believe he isn't a "spirit child"? You believe he was begotten as God? You believe he didn't achieve godhood by obedience?
    You don't believe he had a heavenly mother? You don't call Jesus your "elder brother"?
    You don't believe Jesus had any brothers? You don't believe satan is Jesus' brother?

    If this is true, you need to talk to the mormons that visit me from time to time. They come in my house and I pray for them.
    They have told me they believe these things.

    You believe Jesus should be worshipped and prayed to exactly the same way we pray to the father?
    You believe Jesus is the creator of the universe and everything in it? All the stars? All the planets?
    They have told they don't believe these things.
     
  15. Rev T.S.Perkins

    Moderator
    Staff Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,177
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    #15 Rev T.S.Perkins, Feb 21, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
    i did read the book of mormon and the one thing i found curious was a disclaimer on the first page .//.if faults are found blame them on man and not God........?????Really ........God alone takes full responsabilty in His word and the performing thereof and is the only testament beyond repoach and needs no apology ..which one would you trust..?.....in His love ...Rev
     
  16. Shutterbug

    Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Whom we prefer to associate with is based on our perceptions of how we want our world to be. Printed Bibles are not entirely error free and minor mistakes have occurred. To my knowledge, the Book of Mormon is not meant to compete with the Bible, but it is considered a supplement similar to the Apocrypha. I will say that if the Bible fails to stand on its own merit, so do the Book of Mormon, the Apocrypha, and all other religion based books. I will state that the last time I had Mormon visitors, their primary concern was that my relationship with Jesus was first and in its proper place according to Scripture and not Moroni.
     
  17. B-A-C

    Active Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington
    I remember the many times I visited BYU years ago and would as I read the entry banner that said “The Glory of God is Intelligence.” [SeeD&C 93: 6] I would think. Wow, so Many smart people going to hell.”
    I get a song stuck in my head every now and then and can’t seem to shake it for days. A few nights ago I somehow found a phrase stuck in my head and it is still there. It is the Mormon phrase “Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the father”
    It is found in D&C 76: 23, A vision given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, 16 February 1832 (see History of the Church,1:245–52). 23
    For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father”
    This morning, I went to the official LDS website and did a quick search on “Only Begotten Son” and this is what popped up.
    Jesus Christ Is the Only Begotten Son of God
    Jesus was the only person to be born of a mortal mother, Mary, and an immortal father, God the Father. That is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten Son of God. From His Father, He inherited divine powers (see John 10:17–18). From His mother, He inherited mortality and became subject to hunger, thirst, fatigue, pain, and death. https://www.lds.org/ensign/2010/12/jesus-christ-is-the-only-begotten-son-of-god?lang=eng
    Their descriptive interpretation of that statement sent my mind in about four directions. But let’s try to stay on track.
    According to standard LDS doctrine, this act of begetting Jesus Christ was the physical act of a physical, exalted man impregnating a physical un-exalted young woman.
    The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood- was begotten of his Father, as we are of our fathers. —Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 8:115
    Bruce R. McKonkie, the late LD apostle and theologian studied the many remarks on this subject by many of the LDS prophets and leaders and reported this in his benchmark book, Mormon Doctrine:
    ONLY BEGOTTEN SON:These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only, begotten means begotten, and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers. —page 546
    We need to consider that Mary was one of ldsgod’s* actual daughters. According to LDS doctrine, she, and all of us here on earth were conceived by ldsgod and one of his thousands of goddess wives on that mysterious home planet near the great star, Kolob. [See: Kolob in Notes for an explanation of Kolob] He was committing incest.
    *This man/god is not the God of the Holy Bible, not the God whom Jesus clearly described in John 4:24: God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
    I figure that if anyone understood God’s true nature, His son certainly would. That being the case, I am going to refer to him herein as ldsgod, so as not to confuse the reader as to which one I am referring.

    Now that we have cleared that up, let’s go back to the meat of this little essay.
    What we have dealt with, so far is the LDS teaching that Jesus is the only begotten of the father. Where it skews off the Biblical doctrine is the Mormons teaching and belief that ldsgod came to earth and impregnated his daughter Mary physically. Thus, they teach that Jesus is the only “only-Begotten” in the natural, physical sense and make that a core doctrine.
    Of course, this aligns with orthodox Christianity only in the sense that some of the words are the same. All else is fable. But it does sound good to the unsuspecting ear. The average Mormon does not think past the first line of the statement.

    The Law of Eternal Progression

    The Bed-rock Mormon Axiom that ties all this doctrine of multi-level, exalted men and women, godhoods and inhabited planets together is the “Law of Eternal Progression.” Lorenzo Snow, an early LDS apostle and prophet stated it quite clearly. It lines up with many of the earlier, LDS Prophetic utterances.
    President Snow is certainly the ‘father’ of the adage, “As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.” (The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow,ed. Clyde J. Williams [1984], 1.)
    I have read several Mormon apologetics works that now [in their “now let’s be Christians” era] seem to downplay this LDS proverb and the role Snow played in the declaration of core doctrines of the church. I can understand their reluctance as they try to break into the ranks of Christian orthodoxy, albeit, from the back door.
    However, President Snow was no lightweight. He was President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles until he was called as the fifth president of the LDS Church from 1898 to his death in 1901 .
    Quite frankly, this whole concept sounds like some spiritual Amway system, with ldsgod at the bottom rung of a multi-level godhood scheme. Right now, ldsgod only has humans in his celestial down-line until some of the holier Mormons here on earth earn their own godhoods.
    Then ldsgod will have a tier of gods under him and so on up the eternal progressions until ldsgod has many levels of lesser gods operating under his multi-level system. I can’t help but envision some triple diamond level god floating across some distant galaxy in his massive Winnebago.

    LDSgod Is an Exalted Man?
    Mormonism teaches that ldsgod was a physical, mortal man who actually lived on another planet before becoming ldsgod. Here are just a quick few references from the many available to support my statement.
    We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see….God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.. Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse The King Follett Sermon - Ensign Apr. 1971 - ensign
    God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost constitute the Godhead. President Brigham Young taught the Latter-day Saints to worship God the Father and address prayers to Him in the name of Jesus Christ. He taught further that God the Father was once a man on another planet who “passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality” Young, Brigham. Discourses of Brigham Young.John A. Widtsoe. 1941.
    LDS Doctrine and Covenants states, "God is a glorified and perfected man, a personage of flesh and bones. Inside his tangible body is an eternal spirit." (130:22)
    If you understand that the “Law of Eternal Progression” is the bedrock of Mormon Theology and look at it further from an anthropological viewpoint, you can understand why the LDS doctrine that “Jesus is the only begotten of the father” cannot be even remotely correct theology.
    You see, in the Mormon system of human life, we all begin as ‘spiritual essences somewhere out in infinity. [please don’t make me look that up] When ldsgod and one of his ldsgoddesses breed [I say breed because it is just one god and a virtual herd of goddesses to keep continually pregnant] a baby spirit being is born. They believe that you and I and all mankind became spirit children of ldsgod and one of this herd of goddesses. I would guess that ldsgod is not just exalted, but pretty well exhausted, as well.
    These ldsbabies [us] live out their time there in a family unit [Mommy, where is daddy? He is at the office, busy procreating, honey] until such time as each spirit baby is sent to an earth to be born physically, begotten in the flesh this time, so to speak.
    There new baby grows up in his/her new earthly family unit and presumably lives out the Mormon doctrine of earning his/her godhood.
    Presumably each child matures, goes through the temple to learn the signs, Masonic handshakes and tokens and the new name needed to enter celestial glory and godhood and is found worthy. Now it is off to godhood and a new planet to people it the same way it was done in his/her pre- earth, pre-existent life. Confused yet?
    Now, as every Mormon knows from day one, Mormons need to get those spirit babies down here so they can become part of our eternal family and be gods and goddesses themselves. That’s why Mormons join in and get with the eternal program and beget so many children that even the Catholics are impressed.
    So back to the LDS premise of ldsjesus being the only begotten son of ldsgod in the flesh.

    Please, Tell Me it Isn’t So.

    First, ldsgod was obviously an obedient Mormon Priesthood holder and a temple Mormon or he would never have become an ldsgod. Such a wonderful, obedient follower of the LDS theological and anthropological system of worlds upon worlds, gods upon gods would have been married in the temple and had a houseful of children he and his wife begot into human bodies.
    Ergo, hence, therefore and consequently, we are finally to the end here.

    The key to the LDS version of the doctrine of the only begotten son is that they teach ldsjesus was the only son begotten through a physical act of sex. Remember, in this tortuous system, it was a father impregnating his daughter
    However, that falls completely off the table when you realize that ldsgod, when working out his godhood had to father a number of children; sons and daughters, all in the flesh…
    It seems that the LDS theological position, as they try to sidle up to the Biblical Jesus is so flawed as to render this position fully without any merit other than great story Science-fiction.


    Notes:
    KOLOB: Let me try to explain “Kolob “to you. In the simplest of terms, Kolob is the great star nearest to the planet on which Mormons believe the ldsgod, his sister/wives, and spirit children reside.
    It is where ldsgod and his many goddess wives procreate continually to produce billions of spirit babies, who are without bodies. It is the place from where we spirit children were sent to this earth to gain bodies and earn our own godhoods. It is the place from which all humans have travelled. Mormons believe it is where we lived in our pre-existent state. Clear? Hardly.
    9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one aplanet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same border as that upon which thou standest. PGP Abraham 3:9.
     

Share This Page

Users Who Have Read This Thread (Total: 0)

This Site Proudly Hosted by LOGICWEB