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Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by hadasa, Jan 31, 2010.

Random Thread
  2. You must forgive, because you, yourself were forgiven.
  3. Christ's Opposing Views on Forgiveness

    Jesus Christ had two opposing views on forgiveness and they are a classic example of Law vs. Grace or Old Covenant vs. New Covenant.

    First and foremost, before His death, Jesus was a Jew and a staunch follower of the the Law or Old Covenant.

    After His death and resurrection, Jesus was under His Father's New Covenant and adhered to Grace and not "The Law".

    Nothing in the Bible is more evident of this than Jesus Christ's two different responses to forgiveness:
    1. What Jesus said about forgiveness under the Law( paraphrasing): " Forgive one another or God will not forgive you"
    2. What Jesus said about forgiveness under Grace: (paraphrasing) "Forgive one another as your Father in Heaven has forgiven you"
    Two opposing Covenants, and two opposing definitions of forgiveness.
  4. How do you really forgive???

    This all makes perfect sense about forgiveness, but how do you tell a teenager, who has been hurt and let down by Christians and church going people how to forgive without speaking Christianese to him?

    There is a wonderful young man I know that grew up without a father in his home, had little contact with him, and was raised in a Christian home by his mother with much love. He has had so many bad experiences he really wonders if God is really real or even cares about him. There has been too much hurt, anger and rejection in his life for him to be able to feel comfortable around people, let alone Christians.

    When I talked with him this evening I got very uncomfortable because of all the anger and frustration that was pouring out of him, it was almost too much for me to handle, it just kept coming and coming and coming. I mentioned he needed to forgive people and he said he has tried with several people that prayed and worked with him, but he has concluded he doesn't know how to forgive.

    What can I say to him? How can I tell him about how to forgive people? He wants to do it, he wants peace but doesn't understand how to do it. I am having trouble explaining it to him. I really welcome your input. Help me pray for this young man who has given his heart to the Lord years ago, to forgive and let go of all the hurt, anger and bitterness. I want him to feel the peace and the love of the Lord.

  5. how do you tell a teenager, who has been hurt and let down by Christians and church going people how to forgive without speaking Christianese to him?
    I'm not a professional counseler and I can only answer as if this was my own child.
    I do know that being a teenager, in these times, is difficult at best and,up to mayturity, their spirituality can be especially fragile and difficult to cope with.
    Your concern and love for this child is very evident, I know you will but, keep reminding yourself of their his state and take it slow and easy, never pushing, never demanding.
    Just be yourself and let Christ's love shine through you and this child will learn to trust you and eventually the Lord.

    I mentioned he needed to forgive people and he said he has tried with several people that prayed and worked with him, but he has concluded he doesn't know how to forgive.

    What can I say to him? How can I tell him about how to forgive people? He wants to do it, he wants peace but doesn't understand how to do it. I am having trouble explaining it to him. I really welcome your input.

    This is exactly what the Lord is talking about with His New Covenant of Grace, when he said: " To forgive one another as your father in Heaven has forgive you".
    Assure your young friend that God is asking us to forgive, unconditionally, like He does.
    Obviously your little friend wants to forgive but his hurt is stronger than his will. We have to get him to the point where he can acknowledge that it is the Lord's will that matters.

    Explain to him, unlike the Old Covenant "Law", his lack of forgivess has nothing to do with his relationship to the Lord. Under the New Covenant of Grace, the Lord loves him unconditionally and wants a relationship with him first.
    Once that relationship is established, then his forgiveness of others will be a "fruit" of that relationship.

    The "Law" says :you must love and forgive first.
    Grace says: start loving God as He loves you and your forgiveness of others will come.

    Tell you precious friend that it is O.K. if he can't forgive right now, God knows his hurt better than anyone and He does not hold that against him. God is yearning for his love right now and wants to heal him of his unforgiveness.

    Your little friend wants to forgive but that forgiveness is not so much from him but allowing God's unconditional forgiveness to flow through him.

    Tell him that he is not alone, like so many others in this world who are reaching out to God, they are "putting the cart before the horse".
    Seek God first and then the forgivess of others that he desires.

    Whether he can grasp it right now or not, tell him the truth about God's love. God loves him right now as much as he loves His own Son Jesus Christ and him recieving that love is not predicated on some type of performance, rather that he reaches out and simply recieves this love.

    Help me pray for this young man who has given his heart to the Lord years ago, to forgive and let go of all the hurt, anger and bitterness. I want him to feel the peace and the love of the Lord.
    Help him to forget about forgivenness for the time being but, rather help him seek God first and then turn his hurt, anger and bitterness over to the lord.
    Help him to understand that under the New Covenant of Grace, he is not meant to burden himself with this forgivess but rather allow the Holy Spirit to forgive through him.

    this young man who has given his heart to the Lord years ago,
    One last suggestion and this may be the most important.
    If he has truly given his heart to the Lord, ask him about that experience. Does he recall it accurately? Did he recall a change in himself? Did he truly know the lord at that moment.

    If he does with all of these, then help him go back to that time when he "first believed" and help him start his journey with his relationship to God from that positive experience.

    But here is the caveat.

    If he can't remember or is not sure of the "time that he first believed", assure him that is perfectly O.K. but help him do it for the first time again! Go to Romans 10: 8-13 and, WHEN HE IS READY, lead him through something similar to what it says there.

    God Bless and thank you for allowing God to work through you in your desire to help this little babe!
  6. Whether it is seventy seven, or four hundred and ninety times, still it will not surpass the thousand upon thousand sins the Lord has forgive our own self. We must needs look upon those that mistreat us as Christ did, that they know not what they do; and though we may think that they know what they´re doing, yet the Lord concludes that they do not, and we must trust Him, that He knows what He is saying. The Romans also thought that they knew what they were doing, but Christ said that they did not. For those who are still living in sin, we with God must hope and wish with God that they will come to repentance, and be longsuffering toward them, even as God is toward all.
  7. Thank you!

    Thank you so much Joe Johnston and HisFollower, you have been a great help!

    Are you familiar with any youth teachings on New Covenant Grace and the love of God? Any that can be either downloaded or read over the internet?
  8. <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CPCI%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1593833729 1073750107 16 0 415 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Forgiveness, I finally learned how
    <o:p> </o:p>
    As a Christian, I learned the only things we can control are our choices, not our emotions. So out of Love for Jesus and the enormous gift He gave us I decided to choose to return my love for Him by doing what He asked. He asks us to forgive.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    We all struggle with forgiving those who hurt us. I wanted to share here what I have learned so that I may walk obediently and always able to forgive.

    I am not going to pour out my story, because I have learned that each and every one of us has a story and they are all filled with much pain.

    But, we all deal differently with our struggle against our human desire to hold on to our anger as if it were a 'right' or that it fills that void that was created from the pain. There is a confused kind of thinking that if we let go of the anger - we will lose out on what we have a right too. That simply is a lie and one that perpetuates the pain. I once heard an expression - He who angers you controls you - and that is so very true. Do we really want to give that kind of power to those who have hurt us so deeply?

    So, I wanted to share how I was able to let go of the anger and completely forgive those who hurt me.

    1. I said a prayer saying to God that, although I don't feel the forgiveness, I am forgiving them out of obedience. Then I remember being a child and doing things as I was told and not because I understood them. As an adult, I understand those things very well. So, I forgive out of obedience even if I don't understand. God honors obedience without feelings or understanding. As a matter of fact, I often think about how Abraham must have 'felt' when he raised that dagger above Isaac. There was no human feeling or understanding that would have aided Abraham - it was all about trusting God and being obedient to Him.

    2. I prayed for those who I forgave and asked God to use me in any way He wanted to bring them to a saving grace.

    3. I promised that I would never seek revenge and I have left it in His very capable hands.

    A picture appeared in my mind of that person standing with their back to the fires of hell. In this picture, the person was mocking me for my weaknesses and boasting about their getting one over on me. The whole time they were oblivious to what was directly behind them. The Lord also showed me His view from the cross when He said, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” And in His view, He saw all of those who were mocking Him and rejoicing over His death were standing on the precipice of a fiery pit and Jesus knew that if they did not turn around and realize their fate, they would suffer far worse than what they were doing to Him and He truly loved them and did not what that to happen to them.

    It was at that moment that I finally felt the forgiveness. Oh, if there were anything I could do to save them from the foolish lies they have believed.

    So now, when people hurt me, I actually can understand that there really isn't anything I could ever do to them that would even compare to what will happen to them if they don't repent and receive Jesus as their savior to pay for their sins.

    One of the people was my dad. For so many years I didn't want to pray for him because I didn't WANT him in eternity with me.
    <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->

    But then God reminded me that I really have always wanted a relationship with my dad and if he did repent and turned to the Lord Jesus then I would have eternity with what I had always wanted - to get to know my real dad - not the one consumed by sin and evil.

    So, now praying for my enemies has new meaning and I do it joyfully because I really do want to know each of them clothed in His righteousness.

    And as God always gives us a bounty of blessings when we listen to Him, I also have such a freedom from pain and the burden of carrying the weight of my anger. I'm truly free!!!!!! Also, that hole in my heart where the anger was - He filled it with joy and peace and His perfect love.

    Praise God for His awesome love!

    I hope these words encourage anyone who is buried under the anger of the pain caused by another.

    <o:p> </o:p>
    What about the relationships? The second part is trying to determine if we will be rejoining or in other words, repairing the relationship. In my humble opinion, forgiveness is all about our responsibility to God in obedience. It is the condition of our hearts. But as for the relationship (if the forgiveness issue is regarding another person and not a company or government entity, etc.) that is another issue and is something to be evaluated through scripture and prayer.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    The foundation of any relationship is trust. You need to determine, based on the past events and their current attitude – can you trust them on any level. If you feel you can – then open the door just enough to where you are comfortable and protect the parts of you that you feel vulnerable and do not give them your trust in those areas until a history of renewed trust can be restored. Sometimes, it simply is not going to happen or there is not even a window of trust. In that case – close the door – but don’t lock it. Let them know.

    In some cases, it really is not necessary or even possible to repair relationships. If we are led to do so, then of course. But, the person I had my greatest struggle with is not someone I can spend time around as they are still immersed in evil.

    So, I think that is another issue that we need to pray about individually.
    So many pieces fall in: Are they a Christian, are they a family member whom you have regular contact with, etc. Are they a bad influence on your children, etc. These are all things that are separate and need to be evaluated with scripture, the situation, with your spouse, etc. and then brought before God in prayer.

    I think that this reason is why so many don't forgive. They think that means they have to renew the relationship and they know that it is a poisonous one. Forgiveness is all about obeying God and a condition of our heart. The relationship is a completely different matter.
    <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->

    I actually find myself wanting to reach out to comfort the person who hurt me because I know all too well the future pain that awaits them for I have already walked that road. The day I remembered all the pain I had caused everyone in my life was the darkest day I’ve ever known. I would not have survived it if it were not for the fact that our Lord was on the road with me and showed me his hands and feet and reminded me that He already paid and I didn’t need to cry anymore because I was forgiven.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    My enemies will find themselves on that road one day, or they will find themselves in eternal punishment. Either way they will grieve and I find no joy in that - only comfort that there will be payment for the pain caused to others whether it was paid on the cross or will be paid by the individual for eternity is entirely in the hands of the one.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    So, do not be afraid to forgive them. It is the only way the Christian can stand out as the miracle that we are - to forgive our enemies and trust in the forgiveness we have been given. Walk out onto the water – even if it is in a storm – He will not let you fall.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Your enemies (and even those who have done you a single harm) will either be at the mercy of others to have their turn at being hurt in a similar way and God will be faithful to remind them at that moment of the day when they hurt you or they will live out their lives never acknowledging any of the lessons God tries to bestow on them – they will think they have escaped the results of their evil – only to find themselves suffering for eternity.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Either way – it is best to smile at those who hurt you, do not return evil for evil- and leave it to God. He is far better at judging correctly and meting out the correct and just punishment than we ever could do.

    At least that is my humble opinion and how I see things and what God has taught me through scripture in my situation.

    <o:p> </o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
  9. thanks guys!!!



  10. when i was going through hard times and had a lot of pain from people, at times i hated them, but eventually with lots and lots of prayer, God showed me that if i don't forgive them i can't have peace, and i dearly wanted peace, so i prayed and asked God to help me to forgive them because i was in so much pain and distrust i didn't know how to forgive them, and slowly i was able to get past the hate and even love them, then i'd get around them again and trust them and get hurt again, it began to seem that everytime i trusted i got hurt, so i quit trusting anyone but God,

    its been a long trail down the road to forgiveness and peace, but it is possible to forgive those that hurt you severely, even when they don't ask for forgiveness,

    God is able to supply what we need!!
  11. There are times when we can only forgive by the strength that God gives us. Other times, we may know that we should forgive but our spirit is unwilling to. I have found at those times I must pray, "God, help me to want to forgive this person and to do so in the right spirit."
  12. Its impossible for me to forgive when my emotions are in charge. I must decide to forgive despite my feelings because forgiveness is an action, not an emotion.

  13. If you go into the Testimony part, I put my testimony there. I forgave some people who really hurt me. Just read it there so I don't need to post it again.
  14. Hadasa, your zeal is admirable, but, "All Caps" is illegal (Forum etiquette)
    Please stop the practice.

  15. It easy to say one should forgive though the Lord commanded us to do so. The yardstick for God to forgive your shortcoming after you've know Him is commesurate to How you forgive others.

    But as teenager, Just my advice: I woudn't mind if you can allow him not to be bombered with much scriptures and Bible quoations. I believe most of the time what they needed is that Life of Christ in you. I do not dispute that you shouldn't teach him but let your Life be the scripture he read daily.

    The liitle you can do to help is through prayer; Everyone who find it difficults to forgive others it is because the enemy has sown the ROOT OF BITTERNESS in them and this can only be removed by Prayer. If you can devote time with him and pray together as the Holy-Spirit will be giving you ulterances then will you be able to be help to him.

    But Please, by the mercy of God; don't try to lure him into forgiveness because the bible say so but, try as much as possible to teach him what forgiveness is all about and allow the Lord to work His work in Him.

    The heart of teenager is always full of WHY? Why should I forgive? Why should I not do this or that? but with the Help of Holy-Spirit in your life, I know it will be very easy for you to be a help to Him.

    Don't forget that they are still immature and the help they needs is the Life you live before them and not the Scriptures you know how to quote.

    Above all, I don't think you have anything to say/tell him; all he needed is realtionship and the person he can trust. Just allow the Lord to lead you on how to go about this but most Importantly: The way you live your life before and behind me will do alot to him!

    I pray that the Lord will be so gracious to this teenager and grant him grace and mercy to forgive; Lord open his eye to see the need to forgive others not just because bible say so but more importantly beacuse he has seen the revelation from You.

    I pray that every root of bitterness that has taken over his heart should loose there hold upon his life in Jesus. All the places the hurts, mis-treatment, words and things done to him has wounded him. Lord, I ask for Your healing in those places, let there be healings in his bones, his heart and in his mind so that he may serve You the way You desire in the name of Jesus Christ.
    Also, I extended this prayer to the helps You've raise for him, that You grant them understanding and wisdom to walk circumspectly before this teenager so that Your life and light may be revealed to him through this one in Jesus name. Amen

    |Grace and Mercy has meet; Righteousness does becoming the whole World| |Come quickly Lord Jesus for Your Kingdom is what we, Your bride desire..|
  16. Forgiveness is a choice. The emotion of letting it go is completely separate.

    We have no control over our emotions.
    We have no control over the thoughts that pop into our head.
    We have no control over what we look like (for the most part)
    We have no control over the weather and so much more about our lives.

    But we DO have control over our choices.

    When the ugly feeling of hate or revenge roar in our soul prodding us to 'do something' we make the choice to say ,"no" that is God's area and I am not going to do what is His alone to do.

    Besides - if the person who we are angry at does not repent then whatever God does in judgment of them is far worse than anything we have in mind. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of our Lord when He is the adversary.

    If we keep choosing not to take revenge and to leave them to God, then eventually the anger and hate fades away and is replaced with love and peace. But if we allow the fans of hate to be fed then we remain a prisoner of those who hurt us as we allow them to victimize us again every day in our own hate.

    Letting it go and forgiveness is about honoring God and letting Him finally start healing.

    You do NOT have to restore the relationship or allow them access to hurt you again. But forgiveness (leaving the revenge or dealing with them to God) frees YOU and allows God to heal you.
  17. Yes we do. We react or we act (choice)

    We do have power over our thoughts. (see 2 Cor 10: 5)

  18. #18 Emily Ruth, Feb 8, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
    I think you completely misunderstood my points.

    When we are angry at others about the hurt they did for us, that anger is not something we can choose to not actually BE there.

    I was saying what you are saying - that we CHOOSE what we DO with the emotion. But we don't always control when they show up in us.

    I used to get horrific panic attacks. I had zero control over it.
    But I did have a choice of how I dealt with them and reacted to them.

    I used to hate certain people for what they did to me and that hate got my heart racing, etc. I had no control over that emotion roaring up in my heart. But I DID have control over what I did with it.
    If I ignored them, and hand it over to God then I had victory through Him.
    If I acted on them, then the emotions that came controlled me.

    Same thing with thoughts. I was saying that we DO have control over what we do with them, but we don't have any control over many thoughts that POP into our head.

    I have counseled many people about various issues they deal with and the common thread is that they are trying hard to reject that issue or addiction but the thoughts of it keep popping into their head and they cannot seem to stop them.

    I help them see that while they may not have any control over what pops into their head - they have every control over what they do with them.

    That is what I meant and I am sorry that I didn't say it in such a way that clearly allowed you to see that was the focus of my post.

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