Covenant before God vs Secular State Marriage ?

Discussion in 'Polls' started by rizen1, Jun 30, 2010.

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Covenant before God vs Secular State Marriage

  1. A covenant before God in his name is more important

    3 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. A state license is the only thing to validate a marriage

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Both is needed for a valid marriage

    3 vote(s)
    50.0%

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  1. rizen1

    rizen1
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    Grace and Peace

    My question is , in the eyes of God ( not the church , today churches serve 2 masters God and state ) is a covenant enough or is a state license needed and seen as acceptable.

    I also came across these 2 articles...please give your honest opinion.



    and also please take a look at this.

    This is the example of a marriage covenant authored by John Joseph and posted by request:

    Covenant to Cleave One to Another

    John James, a Good and Lawful Christian Man, solely by the grace of God, by, in and through Christ Jesus, our Sovereign Lord and Savior:

    And,

    Mary Hannah, a Good and Lawful Christian Woman, solely by the grace of God, by, in and through Christ Jesus, our Sovereign Lord and Savior,

    In the Name and by the Authority of our Sovereign Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, being one Mind in Him, we send Greetings and Salutations from Him and ourselves to all Whom these Presents come:

    On this sixth day, of the sixth month, in the two thousandth Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ, before God our Father, His Son Christ Jesus, His Spirit bearing Witness with our spirit, and all Good and Lawful Christians,

    that:

    I, John James, before the almighty Host in heaven, and all whom these Presents come, declare:

    that, God our father, by, in and through our Sovereign Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, in His Love and Mercy for me, has adjudged me worthy of the blessings of and from His Bounty, and has blessed me by choosing an help, whom He calls Mary Hannah, meet for me, in all ways, for our sojourn here, solely here with Him in this world: to Love herein the same way and to the same degree He loved His church; to Honor her, as the weaker vessel, by covering and protecting her from all assaults, of whatever kind or description, to her; to be co-heir with me in all the Blessings of our Lord Christ Jesus and His Bounty; to be co-executor with me in executing the Righteous Law and Testament of God our Father and Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior in bringing up the Seed with which He blesses us; to help me execute His Law and Testament in all our external temporal affairs in this world for His Glory, Majesty and Dignity; And , forsake all other women and cleave to her alone, so we are in all maters One flesh and One mind in Christ Jesus;

    And,

    I, Mary Hannah, before the almighty Host in heaven, and all whom these presents come, declare:

    that, God our father, by, in and through our Sovereign Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, in His Love and Mercy, has chosen and brought me to help the man whom He calls John James, and has adjudged me meet for Him, in all ways, for our sojourn here, solely with Him in this world; to be Loved, covered and protected by him through submitting faithfully to him in Love as unto our Lord Christ Jesus; to be co-heir with him in all the Blessings of our lord Christ Jesus and his Bounty; to be co-executor with him in executing the Righteous Law and Testament of God our Father and Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior in bringing up the Seed with which He blesses us; to help me execute His Law and Testament in all our external temporal affairs in this world for His Glory, Majesty and Dignity; And , forsake all other men and cleave to him alone, so we are in all maters One flesh and One mind in Christ Jesus;

    And,

    By the grace of god bestowed in His Love for and upon us, we submit ourselves to his Righteous Rule and Government, and pray earnestly that our Lord Christ Jesus will govern our House in His Love exercised in Judgement and Mercy for our reproof and correction, for He chastises those whom He Loves; that in His Love He builds our House with blessings from His Bounty for His Glory and Majesty; that our Love for each other will grow stronger in Him who has brought and bound us together with and In Him to reconcile us to God our Father.

    By God's Grace in and through Christ Jesus, we are:



    John James Zebedee ___________________________ L.S. helped by, loving, covering, and protecting:



    Mary Hannah Zebedee __________________________L.S. loving, helping, covered and protected, Amen.



    On this sixth day, of the sixth month in the two thousandth Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ, before God the Father, His Son Christ Jesus, His Spirit bearing Witness with our spirit, and all good and Lawful Christians, we, being Good and Lawful Christians, witnessed the making of this union between john James and Mary Hannah and by our signatures attest to our approbation of their union, and Bless them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit.



    _____________________ L.S.

    sign manual

    _____________________ L.S.

    sign manual

    Amen




     
    #1 rizen1, Jun 30, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2010
  2. Boanerges

    Boanerges
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    God tells us to obey the law of the land and unless they directly contradict His Word (a higher authority) then that should be fine. I believe a legal marriage valid in His eyes however if one feels they need to do more then they should follow their conscience before God.
     
  3. rizen1

    rizen1
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    Thanks for responding.

    Can two people perform their own ceremony privately or with intimate family members without a pastor/priest/rabbi. This might seem like a silly question but I've been contemplating what is a marriage ceremony and when does God recognize a man and woman as a married coupled.

    I believe sex, seals the deal. I heard one girl say " when a woman have sex with multiple men they all become her husband.

    What's your take on that ?
    Also what's your view on the Covenant form ?

    I really like it and plan to do that first and only get the license after for legal record of property sharing. I also did research and there are pastors who would not wed anyone with a license. I didn't know this. Everyone including the church say you must get the license before you can have the ceremony.

    But it made sense why the church would recommend the license, they have to answer to the IRS, for their 501 corporate status ( tax exemption ). They can risk losing their Government benefits by not abiding to their laws.
    Thanks God bless


     
  4. Boanerges

    Boanerges
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    My thoughts are simple, if the Bible encourages us to follow the laws of the land then we should do so. This can also greatly simplify legal matters later including inheritance issues for any children. If it is worth doing it is worth doing right.
    Marriage is indeed a covenant no matter who is performing the ceremony but is there any harm in doing it in a legal fashion?
     
  5. rizen1

    rizen1
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    I understand the legal man made law part, it's needed in time of divorce, death , taxes and buying property.

    But the spiritual aspect I'm concern about, the license benefits the body obtaining earthly things or material things. I'm trying to find out what people think about the covenant form.

    Also what valid dates a marriage the license or sex ?

    thanks in advance for your response.
     
  6. Boanerges

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    From Webster's Dictionary of the English Language:

    Marriage
    MAR'RIAGE, n. [L.mas, maris.] The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. Marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. Marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing the promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity,and for securing the maintenance and education of children.

    Marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled. Heb 13

    1. A feast made on the occasion of a marriage.

    The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king, who made a marriage for his son. Mat 22.

    2. In a scriptural sense, the union between Christ and his church by the covenant of grace. Rev 19.


    Again these are just my opinions:
    Any two folks can have sex, that does not equal marriage.
    When two hearts are committed to walking with God and each other then there should be a public ceremony as public confession of Covenant is certainly Biblical.
    Marriage is a union, a communion and a public commitment before man and God.
     
  7. rizen1

    rizen1
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    I'm still shocked that the dictionary actually had man and woman...usually states when two people or partners.

    Thanks for your response.

    In biblical traditional times did a feast take place among everyone inlcuding those who were poor?
    Where did the celebration orgins come from?

    Are there biblical guidelines to marriage ceremonies?

    Is a priest or pastor required ?

    Also at what point can a Christian say " this law of the land I will not follow " and be ok with that decision.

     
    #7 rizen1, Jul 8, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
  8. Boanerges

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    Wedding ceremonies are not specifically addressed in the New Testament yet we can certainly see that they are mentioned multiple times.
    Marriage I believe (in God's eyes) is a covenant between a man and a woman and ones culture plays into the exact details of that ceremony.
    There is nothing about a traditional church wedding that is anti-biblical and I truly believe the Lord does not want us hung up on ceremony and ritual to the point of legalism. This point is especially valid in view of the limited data we are given on Biblical marriage ceremonies.
    One thing for sure, marriage is a covenant between husband and wife before God:
    Mal 2:14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
    As far as disobeying the law of the land; since we are specifically told to obey those laws we had best be sure they are in direct conflict with the letter and heart of scripture.
     
  9. SpiritLedEd

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    Luke 14: 1-24 tells of Jesus' attendance at a dinner at a Phasrisee's home on a Sabbath day.

    In that day in Israel it was believed that if you were rich (like the Pharisees) you were favored by God and if you were poor, it was because God had rejected you. So the guest list was limited to the elite. Jesus blew that caste system out of the water so to speak when He told them (vv 13-14) to invite the poor, the lame, and the blind to their feasts.

    I'd like to have been there and listened to them huffing and puffing and gagging at that idea: "Give these losers dignity by inviting them into my house?!!, he's got to be out of his mind."

    SLE
     
  10. rizen1

    rizen1
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    I can see it unfolding before my eyes..lol:shock::secret:
     

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