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Are you really saved?

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by ozell, Oct 21, 2011.

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  1. ozell

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    If you feel that you are saved, I'm sure that you know the few verses that seem to imply this.

    Such as (l Corinthians 1:18) "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God and

    (2 Corinthians 2:15) "For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ in them that are saved, and in them that perish."

    both of these scriptures are true, but when, how, and what will be saved?
     
  2. ozell

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     ​
    Remember these verses mentioned those that perish as well as those that are saved, and if you are saved then at the same time someone is to perish.

    If this is the case, we have been judged, and I'm sure we all would remember standing in front of a white throne looking at Jesus and the saints.

    Seeing that Jesus is your Lord, then you must confess and confirm

    (Saint John 5:22) "For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son."

    This leaves judgment in Jesus hands only. Now we understand

    (2 Timothy 4:1) "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom."
     
  3. ozell

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    I'm sure some will say, "What does this have to do with me?

    I'm saved now.

    Well consider this

    (James 4:12) "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who are thou that judgest another."

    Now if Jesus is your Lord, he is the only one who can judge whether you will be saved or destroyed and this happens at his appearing and his kingdom

    Then, after 1,000 years of peace, the Judgment day (where all that have ever lived will be judged, by Jesus and his saints)

    (1 Corinthians 6:1-3); (Revelations 20:4); (Genesis 22:18) says,
    "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou has obeyed my voice."

    We know that this particular seed is Christ, so if we believe God, as Abraham did in (Genesis 26:5), and obey his voice, then are we Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (to possess the land forever).
     
  4. ozell

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    In order for us to receive this promise, we must be able to live forever, but this aging body does not allow us to live that long.


    But Jesus does, (Philippians 3:20-21), "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the savior, the Lord Jesus Christ"

    2), "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body according to the working where by he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

    This is the perfect heavenly body we shall bear in

    (1 Corinthians 15:49) "and as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

    At this time you can say," I am saved."
     
  5. Davy

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    Hi ozell, you make an interesting point, however, have you considered the concept of freewill, and what happened to Satan!

    Can people be really saved when they finally get to heaven? Satan was already in heaven, in fact the bible seams to paint a picture that he was a very prominent and important angel in heaven. Yet, although being created perfect, because he was also given freewill, so individuals could choose to serve God out of pure love not compulsion, he chose to rebel against God. Furthermore, he also swayed many angels in heaven through freewill to follow him in his rebellion against God.

    Clearly, once saved and always saved does not apply on earth, but it also does not apply in heaven, those who go to heaven have freewill, and at some future point in time, some could rebel against God in heaven, just like Satan and the angel who followed him.

    So, being saved is an on going process that must be maintained through freewill with love, obedience and humility, humility being very important, as that failing is what caused Satan to no longer be saved. As this is the case in heaven, how much more should we strive to remain saved here on earth.
     
  6. ozell

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    hi dave

    I don't believe that we go to heaven but thats another sunject.

    as far as being saved it is a ongoing process.

    Jesus is our salvation
    Jesus is our saviour

    Jesus said

    Matthew 24v13
    But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    when is the end?

    when Jesus comes
     
  7. ozell

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    If you are going to inherit the land forever, then you must have a body that is able to live forever.

    This is simple. This is the word of God.

    How else are salvaged from this death that Adam put us in?
     
  8. ozell

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    #8 ozell, Oct 27, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011
    Now, we see when we will be saved, how we will be saved, and what will be saved.

    I know some will still persist in calling themselves saved.

    Consider (St. Matthew 24:13), out of Jesus own mouth "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

    The end is when the Lawgiver appears, who is able to save, or destroy you at his coming.

    If Jesus is your Lord, who are you to take judgment from him and say you are saved, or destroyed?
     
  9. ozell

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    Being saved or destroyed is at God's discretion.

    If you think you are saved now, then you have taken the time of judgment away from Jesus Christ, and given it to the other Christ that Paul warned us of, saying "for if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus" (2 Corinthians 11:4).

    In (Ezekiel 28:14-16), he calls him "the anointed cherub that coverth." (This is Satan).
     
  10. my_little_pony

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    Fantastic observation. Maybe God created Satan (and consequently evil) to give people something NOT to choose.

    I feel very happy to read comments like these, because I very much agree. Salvation belongs to God and he can do with it whatever he chooses. There is no doctrine (scriptural or otherwise) we can use to manipulate salvation.

    However, scriptural doctrine is there to give us some very strong indications of what God is looking for in those he will choose to give his salvation to.

    I think, ultimately, God is looking for people who will respond to his spirit, which is fluid and winding, or, like the wind; it changes all the time and there is no doctrinal box which can capture it.

    If we want to be saved, we need to flow with the spirit every day.
     
  11. Thiscrosshurts

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    Matthew 24:13“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
    Matthew 24:14“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

    What would the end be?
    The end of the persons life?

    Or the end of the series of events Jesus was describing?
    H
    ow can those who did not stay alive to the end endure?

    If they had been completely delivered from sin they would not have experienced death.
    The wages of sin is death so wouldn't death be a sign of failure?

    That may be another subject but I think it would be easier to explain your position on "when saved" if you explained your understanding of heaven.
    The Jews had a very different concept of heaven and the world to come than modern Christianity does.I tend to use the Jewish understanding when interpreting scripture.
     
  12. RJ

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    #12 RJ, Nov 1, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
    You said:
    If they had been completely delivered from sin they would not have experienced death.
    The wages of sin is death so wouldn't death be a sign of failure?

    Death here refers to spiritual death.

    We all die a physical death.

    Those who are true Christians will not experience a spiritual death.

    Unsaved are spiritually dead.

    Saved are spiritually alive because God lives in them.

    Also:
    Sure Orthodox Jews had a different view of heaven because it was a heaven with out Jesus Christ.

    Like the Apostles and the Jewsish Christians of today, have a Christian view of heaven.

    The Orthodox Jew would only be knowledgeable of scripture void of the concepts of the New Testament and the New Covenant.

    So, your adhering to the Jewish interpretation of scripture would be a non-chcristian view? And so, you do not adhere to St. Pauls interpretation of scripture, which would be a Christian view, and, of course, he was a Jew.
     
  13. Thiscrosshurts

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    It doesn't say spiritual death.
    Are there any scriptures to back that up?

    Yes,because of sin.Being forgiven doesn't necessarily(although it can) cancel out the negative effects of sin.
     
  14. RJ

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    #14 RJ, Nov 1, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011

    The Bible is very clear that death is not restricted to merely the physical death of the body, but the death of the spirit. When Adam and Eve sinned against God, they died that very day spiritually and lost their personal relationship with God. Is the concept of spiritual death supported in the Bible? Here are the scriptures (many by Jesus Himself):
    • But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me; and allow the dead to bury their own dead." (Matthew 8:22) - (How can physically dead people bury anyone?)
    • "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)
    • "'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?’ He is not the God of the dead but of the living." (Matthew 22:32)
    • "But we had to be merry and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found." (Luke 15:32) - (The prodigal son was spiritually dead until he repented)
    • And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. (Romans 8:10)
    • And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, (Colossians 2:13)
    • For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. (James 2:26)
    • For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God. (1 Peter 4:6)
    • And the Law came in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:20)
     
  15. B-A-C

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    #15 B-A-C, Nov 1, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
    Spiritial death.... well obviously this isn't physical death.
    But is it death of the soul? Or does the soul go on living after death?

    Joh 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
    Joh 8:51 "Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death."
    Joh 8:52 The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.'

    I certainly agree you can be spiritually dead. Otherwise why you need the Holy Spirit?

    Does only the soul of believers live eternally? Or is the souls of unbelievers eternal as well? Does hell really exist, or do unbelievers "just fade away". Is there eternal punishment as well as eternal life?

    Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
    Mat 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
    2Th 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

    Mat 13:42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    Mat 13:50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Mat 5:29 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
    Mat 5:30 "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

    Mat 18:8 "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
    Luk 3:9 "Indeed the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

    If there truly is no punishment for sin... then why do I even need to be saved?

    Heb 10:27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

    Maybe there really is a hell, a place where your soul will be tormented eternally?

    Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
    Rev 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

    Luk 16:22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
    Luk 16:23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
    Luk 16:24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
    Luk 16:25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

    This is the argument of most non-believers I know. Why get saved? Why do I need a savior? Ok, so I sin, so what? After this life I just return to dust, I might as well live it up, have as much fun as possible and not worry about a penalty that will never happen.
     
  16. SpiritLedEd

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    I would add that the "love, obedience and humility" you refer to, Davy, are empowered by the Holy Spirit; "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to His good purpose."
    (Php 2:13)

    SLE
     
  17. my_little_pony

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    Maybe it would be helpful to ask the question backwards. How do you know when you are not saved?
     
  18. Thiscrosshurts

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    RJ,I think you may have misinterpreted my original post.
    I was trying to follow ozell's line of thought and it brought up some questions.
    The questions were not based on anything I necessarily believe but were questions that his line of thought brought up.
    This is from my understanding.Jesus said "no man takes my life from me". We are called to be like him and because he said we will do greater things than him because he went to be with the Father.

    The father is in heaven,but where is heaven?

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


    We seem to be focused on getting to be where God is and he seems to be waiting to join us.

    Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
    Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    In the flesh the life is in the blood but we are waiting for our life to appear and swallow up or cloth us. As far as I can see that does not require dying or waiting until some end time,it requires loving God and keeping his ways.

    2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

    People talk about death as though it is losing life.But blood life was never really life because it is temporary.
     
  19. will

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    #19 will, Nov 2, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2011
    On the mark!

    We often are too focused to prove some theology or doctrine as being wrong, that we forget what really matters which is spreading the Gospel to those who has not even heard it.

    Whether you regard OSAS as true or not, you still have to continually be filled by the Holy Spirit and follow His illumination to fulfill the Great Commission in your own unique circumstances of life.

    Focus on deepening your relationship with God through Scriptures, if you think you understand the passage correctly, good, praise God and keep studying, it's much better than worrying about what other people think about certain doctrines and sow dispute among brothers and sisters.

    Just admit it, we don't really care about the other person's salvation, especially when we are arguing with him/her about doctrines. We just like to think that they are wrong and only we know how to interpret the Scriptures properly.

    What a sad way to show love to fellow believers. Please stop and rethink about what you are saved for.

    For sure the Lord didn't save us just so we can bicker about who is right and who is wrong. The first 12 disciples did that and the Lord rebuked them.
     
  20. ozell

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    =my_little_pony;187659]Fantastic observation. Maybe God created Satan (and consequently evil) to give people something NOT to choose.

    that is a good observation, yet satan was created perfect and yet still he chose his path. this path is called sin. which he is the father there of.



    salvation is to salvage and only Jesus can salvage the creation which our father and mother Adam and Eve gave away to satan.


    it is written

    Deuteronomy 30v15
    See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

    this is what the Lord has set before Adam and Eve even down to us.


    I agree except with the changing part because God's spirit nor does He ever change

    it is written

    Malachi 3v6
    For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    and


    Hebrews 10v8
    Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


    yet that spirit that we need to flow with is Jesus and he had written


    John 6v63
    It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
     

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