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    Matthew 7:21-23

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Are God and the devil the same being?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Penguins4123, Oct 2, 2008.

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  1. Penguins4123

    Penguins4123 New Member

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    What I mean by this, is that although God is good, why would he allow such horrific things to happen on earth? If he has the power over evil, why can't he stop all the bad things that happen in the world every day? I know the obvious response would be that it's down to the human individual, but surely he has the power to override our negative thoughts?

    Peace and love to all,
    regards,
    kelley
     
  2. Joebob787

    Joebob787 New Member

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    If God Wipe out all evil in the world, we would have to go with it. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

    Also, God wanted beings that would worship him out of choice, not by forcing them too. If he took out all suffering and pain in the world right now, would he get beings forced or beings that choose?

    Also, Evil is without God. God cannot be Evil and Holy at the same time.
     
  3. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    um... sort of.

    Well, kinda of a good answer. Penguins4123

    First, God never created anything to fail. He never created evil. Lucifer was created a very wise and beautiful angel. We are told that Bad was found in the devil, though he was created perfect.

    Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    Satan was just an angel, but an anointed angel. Anointed means that Satan carried with him the power of God. For some reason, Satan was about to make choices, not something that angels should do as they are created as servants only. There are some things that God had appointed Satan to, long before Adam and Eve.

    If we look at Genesis chapter 1:1 We see at the very start God created the Heavens (Stars) and the earth. Then in the next chapter we see that the earth was without form and void. The Hebrew meaning of void means to be laid waste.

    Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

    The start of Genesis chapter one

    Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
    Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

    No man on the earth, the mountains had been shaken and all the birds were gone.

    Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

    It would seem that something happened to the earth at the time Satan rebelled. There are some other scriptures to support this, but no conclusive evidence. One thing is for certain, when God's angels rebelled against him to follow Satan, things got pretty bad.

    Now, with the angels separated, God's first creation rebelled against him. Not God's fault, but Hell was originally created to keep bad angels not bad humans. The bible says hell is expanding...

    So, God decides he wants to fellowship with someone on his level. Satan wants to be like God. (Isa 14) God makes man in his own image. This put man in the god class above angels and someone on God's level to fellowship with and share with.

    God had heaven, and he Gave Adam the earth. Satan was also given a place above the earth, not exactly what Satan wanted, but God did make a provision for him.

    Satan figured that if Adam obeyed him, that would in effect make Satan just like God. Adam was suppose to protect the garden and keep Mr Devil out. Well, Adam obeyed Satan, and Satan became Adams god, and Satan got the lease to the earth from Adam becoming the god of this world.

    When Adam obeyed Satan, death took a grip on this planet. All that power and anointing Adam had was twisted by sin, and the whole planet suffered. By one mans sin death reigned. God did not curse the earth, it was the effect of sin, and Satan getting the lease to the planet.That is how destructive sin is.

    So, God was left out again. God can't make a better man, because he already duplicated himself. If anyone has suffered loss, it would be God. He has done nothing but good.

    So, comes Jesus. Jesus got back from the Devil what he stole from Adam. For by one mans sin death reigned, how much more shall we reign in life by Christ Jesus.

    What the Devil did with Adam, can not even compare to what Jesus had done back for us. So, we can have the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, or we can live under the curse.

    God is not the one in control of the earth. Satan the god of this world is in control. For God to just take everything from Satan would not be just or fair. God has to do this in a way, where Satan can never accuse God of any wrong. Satan, got control of the earth though Adam. He has been given an appointed time, and then it's all over, His lease expires.

    We have been given authority over the devil. Luke 10:19. As believers we have authority in the name of Jesus over all powers of darkness. We are told to resist the devil and watch him as he is an adversary. We have to do something with the Devil, not God. Sadly most Christians do not even know they are the ones that have to take authority over the devil.


    We are told to cast down every imagination that goes against the word of God. we are also told to think on good things, not bad things. We are told to be transformed with the renewing of our mind by the Word of God. You have a choice to dwell on bad thoughts, or take authority over them. When bad thoughts come to me, I praise God. You can't speak praises to God and quote scriptures and still maintain bad thoughts. God made you that way.

    Now we are no longer still sinners saved by grace. we use to be.

    And if God took Satan out, People still would choose evil as that is their nature.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
  4. JonathanAB

    JonathanAB New Member

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    Well, I have a few answers to this question.

    The short answer:
    The Devil is God's shadow.

    The long answer:
    We cannot have up without down, or left without right, a smile without a frown, or day without night.

    The literary answer:
    In all stories there is an antagonist. Try and write a story, without a difficulty or problem that has to be overcome. Its just not possible. Birds fly only because if falling were not possible, then flying would have no meaning; it would not be possible either.
     
  5. Joebob787

    Joebob787 New Member

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    The answer that God needed Satan is wrong. You can have Good without evil but you can't have evil without Good. Evil is without God. God neither approves nor authored evil
     
  6. rhomphaia

    rhomphaia New Member

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    The Genesis answer

    I always love to take people back to the book of Genesis to answer this questions.

    At a recent interview in the BBC, a Jewish Rabbi gave an interesting answer to this age-old question as to why God allows suffering.

    " ...God allows suffering to prove to us that our choices matter..If God stepped in every time to rescue us from the consequences of our choices, we would not be creatures of choice...."

    Mind you, this is a Jewish Rabbi giving this answer.

    You might not know this, but most jews are atheists because they could not understand how the God of Israel could allow Hitler to bake the children of Israel in crematoria, or all the other evil things he did.

    What is worship? It is adoring certain characteristics of a moral being, reminding that moral being to take note of them and even continue in them.That is why angels worship God.

    God was hard-pressed to prove His Character after Lucifer's rebellion.This is why God never did away with Lucifer.Can God be trusted to sit as the Ruler of the Universe, Angels asked.So with time,especially after the creation of Man,God continued to Prove His Holiness to His Angels, by displaying the selfish,destructive nature of Lucifer.

    He could not kick Lucifer out of Man's territory because His Character reminded Him that the earth was man's possesion, to do with it as he pleased,because Adam was "God" over the earth,with full dominion,especially spiritually, over it.With God over Him as creator,Man could maintain the earth.

    But Adam's rebellion was a statement that God was not worthy to be the source of man's wisdom.It was an indirect form of worship to lucifer.So man chose lucifer's notion of self-determination as his guiding principle,showing God as unworthy to be the source of wisdom for Man.No wonder Lucifer had the right to receive power over Man, as the new source of his wisdom, with grave consequences.

    God "created" a reason to help Man against God's Justice in abandoning men to their new ruler by placing His Son, as Man, in lucifer's domain.By Killing Jesus, Lucifer disqualified himself as ruler over men by losing his prized possesion, mankind, in punishment.

    So suffering continues until the earth is brought under subjection of the Man Jesus, whose source of Wisdom is God.
     
  7. JonathanAB

    JonathanAB New Member

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    Aah. You are right.
    I did not phrase this properly.
    It is the possibility of evil that makes good what it is. It sounds like I was saying that we must make evil decisions to prove good exists. Sorry. I was unintentionally being a bit ambiguous there.

    The other post points this out a bit better, by showing that the possibility of evil is what gives us free will to do good.
     
  8. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    ah ha....

    The Devil is not God's Shadow. Satan is a fallen spirit, or a spirit that opposed God.

    The devil has no authority or power. Jesus stripped him of that. If you want to mess the devil up then don't listen to him. The devil has no ability to hurt you if you will not take sides with him.

    Looking at scriptures we see things like Psalm 91 that talks about the snare of the Fowler. Another way to put it is the traps of the devil.
    Surely He shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. Psalm 91:3


    God gave us the Holy Ghost to lead us away from these traps, gave us angels for protection, and gave us authority over the devil.

    So, the devil is not an issue. Not believing the Word of God, living in fear and listening to the devil and his lies is the issue.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
    #8 Brother Mike, Oct 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2008
  9. JonathanAB

    JonathanAB New Member

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    Now that is the best answer.
     
  10. armored

    armored New Member

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    He basically started a revolution of Love through Jesus and left us in charge .. You have the power of the Living God inside you -

    When Jesus died he gave you an inheritance in the Kingdom of God. You have power and authority to bring Heaven's reality to earth ..

    Be a world changer !
     
  11. letusgo27

    letusgo27 New Member

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    hope this helps

    one must look at the overall message fo the Bible. I will gve you a rundown but ill leave it to you to study and firnd the Biblical proof.

    Satan was not a bad being when he was created but out of pride he became an adversary to God hence the name Satan.
    Now God could have gotten rid of him but then there would be a major problem because until this point sin had not been a reality so none of the other created beings know what the eventual side effects of sin really are except for what GOd had told them.

    Here in lies the problem If God just got rid of him (Satan) then all the other beings would think that Satan was right and distrust GOd because satan had said that Gods rules were to stop them from being free when in fact as we know GOds rules are liberty. thus GOd had to let sin play out in full so that all would know that GOd was telling the truth that sin is not good.

    it was proved by the fact that Jesus was killed by his own creation. We recieved Him not. and now the only reason this world still goes on is because God wants everyone to have a proper chance to chose life rather than death then He will come and end sin forever.

    this was is best because no one will ever dought God again and GOd will never have to let it happen again because all will know the truth of what sin does to created beings. untile then Satan will do all he can to destroy humanity because its the only way he can hurt GOd.

    very briefe but hoope this helps
     
  12. letusgo27

    letusgo27 New Member

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    If you study up this is a very pagan thought process before Satan there was no evil only good and that is the way GOd will restore it to at the end of this world. Good does not need evil to exist that is circulare thinking and goes no where. and quite frankly is nothing more than an excuse for wrong. not to say that is why you said it.
    blessings
     
  13. stephen

    stephen Moderator
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    Are God and the devil the same being?

    This statement/question which I no doubt comes from a genuine seeking heart is completely out of court, biblicly.

    A similar question would be "Are light and darkness the same thing?

    Much evil and sorrow happens in the world and has done since the dawn of time, which has nothing at all to do with God. The problem is the disobedience of mankind t'ward God, and the selfishness of the human heart

    All have a free will to do whatsoever they desire

    I recall when the 'aids' epidemic first broke out, at first without cure, it was suggested that it was a judgement from God. God had nothing at all to do with it. Aids is the result of the depravity of the human heart, and the depraved indulgence of modern man.

    Suffering throughout the world today is the product of rejecting the saving grace of Jesus, and the satisfaction of fallen human nature, in one way or another.

    God is a good God........and the devil is a bad devil
     
  14. love_yeshua

    love_yeshua New Member

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    Absolutely not.

    Yahweh has handed over control of the world to Satan/Lucifer for a temporary period of time. When it is the Day of Yahweh He will take back control, destroy the wicked and reward the faithful.

    That time has not come as yet. The devil is free to reign on earth for now. And since he knows his time is short, he is working very hard to take as many people as possible to hell with him. Even the Illuminati are deceived by him, the antichrist will also be a deceived human.

    Luke 4:6
    6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

    Revelation 12:12
    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
     
    #14 love_yeshua, Jul 12, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2013
  15. farout

    farout Member

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    JonathanAB: No,no, no! Most assuradly the devil is not God;s shadow ! the devil was and is a created being. The big thing is God created "FREE WILL" Robots do as they are told to do, with no thoughts of their own. Allowing free will automaticly gives the choice of the person to follow the will of God, or not to follow God's will. Thus we are given the choice to obey or refufe to follow His will. That is called, as we all know sin. Evil comes when we make it. By our choice we choose to sin. Satan had the same choice and choose to reject God.

    We are born with free will. We are born with the ability to reject God's will...sin. Do we all sin ? Does satan not have huge powers to destroy, and tempt us with sin? YES.
     
  16. B-A-C

    B-A-C Active Member

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    After Jesus was resurrected, he said...
    Matt 28:18; And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
    Col 2:10; and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
    Col 2:15; When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
    Rev 1:18; and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

    Satan has power to reign in people's (the un-saved) lives. But he no longer rules the earth.
    Eph 2:2; in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
     
  17. love_yeshua

    love_yeshua New Member

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    Be careful with words! I said Satan has been given authority to rule the world. Not the earth!! Two completely different things. Satan will never rule the earth but he is currently the god of this world!
     
  18. Merlene

    Merlene New Member

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    How could it be possible for God and satan be the same being? James 2:19 says if you believe there is one God you do well. And that the demons tremble at the name of Jesus.
    Matthew 4:10 satan was trying to temp Jesus and He told satan "away with you satan..."you shall worship the Lord YOUR God and Him only shall YOU serve". The satan were seen falling out of heaven like lightening, for wanting to exalt himself as God. There is ONLY ONE GOD, and NONE OTHER LIKE HIM.
     

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