Originally Posted by Barny

Titus 12 "Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts (unbelief in Jesus/establishing self-righteousness instead) we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, (the only righteousness to have is in Christ as our own righteousness is as filthy rags)"

Hi Barny,

i get dizzy reading your post as you have a very confused interpretation of Scripture, did you know that Scripture is not of any private interpretation?

You are saying that denying ungoldiness and worldly lusts just means unbelief in Jesus / establishing self- righteousness instead, but that is not what Scripture says.

Scripture says:

"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" Titus 2:12

so if you live a ungodly life and are not denying worldy lusts and do not live godly in this present world, you are simply deceived thinking you will make it into the Kingdom of God.

Here is something for you to consider:

Ephesians 5:

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

2 Corinthians 7:
1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1 Peter 1:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1 Thess. 4
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Romans 8:
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

And please read again Titus 2:12

"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" Titus 2:12

Take heed and do not be deceived!

Hi DutchChristian,

You say your getting "dizzy" trying to understand what I am saying. Consider this.
In John 3:3,4 Jesus speaks of being "born again", BUT Nicodemus understands this in the physical and therefore got confused.

Many people read the Bible in physical terms and misunderstand it.
But see 1Cor 2:13,14 on how we should understand scripture.
"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."


Consider also Heb 12:16 "Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright."
This verse does not speak about physical fornication or profanity. It is spiritual.
And it is this spiritual fornication/profanity that describes living according to the flesh which leads to death. Living according to the lusts of the flesh is establishing self-righteousness through the law instead of through the faith of Christ. There are numerous warnings in scripture for us to be under grace and not works of the law. Being under grace is being led by the Spirit. BUT living according to the flesh is establishing your own righteousness without Christ, and this is not submitting to the righteousness of God (Rom 10:3).



Reading God's word in physical understanding will only lead you into error.
God's word is spiritually discerned.

Originally Posted by Barny

Consider also Heb 12:16 "Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright."
This verse does not speak about physical fornication or profanity. It is spiritual.

Hi Barny,

Of course it is talking about physical!


For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Romans 8:13

Does the word say mortify the deeds of the spiritual? No but mortify the deeds of the body!


But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27

Is this talking about the spiritual? No it is talking about the body the flesh.


Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: Colossians 3:5

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. Romans 6:13

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Matthew 5:29-30

Now tell me how can you ever cut off your own spiritual right hand or your spiritual right eye? You can't! But you sure can cut off your physical right hand if it causes you to sin!


For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Romans 8:13


Take care now!

What did Jesus save us from?

What are you as a new creation?

Originally Posted by David777

What did Jesus save us from?

What are you as a new creation?

We're saved from:
Wrath, Rom 5:9
Death, James 5:20

As a new creation we are:
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Gal 2:20

Holy, Rom 11:16
Sanctified, Heb 10:10
Perfected, Heb 10:14
Cannot sin, 1John3:9, 1Pet 4:1
Righteous, Phil 3:9

Originally Posted by DutchChristian

First i'd like to say that Charles Stanley is a major false teacher because of his saved in sin eternal security teachings: turning grace into a license for sin.

Friend, be careful making unfounded accusations against others.
Please provide audio, video or written transcripts that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that Pastor Stanley teaches grace as a license to sin.

Originally Posted by DutchChristian

i say read Titus 2:12 again

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

This is correct, Godly living is what we are supposed to do as Christians, but what motivates us to live this way?
If we aren't sure that we are saved, that means our motivation to Godly living is fear of losing that salvation, is it not?
Is that the right kind of motivation? Is that biblical?

Originally Posted by will

Friend, be careful making unfounded accusations against others.
Please provide audio, video or written transcripts that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that Pastor Stanley teaches grace as a license to sin.

Hi Will,

There is lot's to find if one would investigate him.

Stanley stated that:

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy." (Eternal security can you be sure p.93)

"... believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation ..." (Eternal security can you be sure p.94)

"No matter what you do as a child of God, you are forgiven. You say, 'Murder?' Forgiven. 'Stealing?' Forgiven. 'Adultery?' Forgiven. 'Worshiping idols?' Forgiven." (Grace and continuing sin tape #4)

"It is not lying, cheating, stealing, raping, murdering, or being unfaithful that sends people to hell." (Eternal security can you be sure p.70)

Revelations 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This man Charles Stanley is a liar and a wolf in sheeps clothing!

Beware!

Originally Posted by DutchChristian

Hi Will,

There is lot's to find if one would investigate him.

Stanley stated that:

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy." (Eternal security can you be sure p.93)

"... believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation ..." (Eternal security can you be sure p.94)

"No matter what you do as a child of God, you are forgiven. You say, 'Murder?' Forgiven. 'Stealing?' Forgiven. 'Adultery?' Forgiven. 'Worshiping idols?' Forgiven." (Grace and continuing sin tape #4)

"It is not lying, cheating, stealing, raping, murdering, or being unfaithful that sends people to hell." (Eternal security can you be sure p.70)

Revelations 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This man Charles Stanley is a liar and a wolf in sheeps clothing!

Beware!

The information you provided did you read those books, every single page and listen to all the tapes on the series posted above ? Or is it regurgitating phrases taken from someone who did read it and listen to it ?

Originally Posted by DutchChristian

First i'd like to say that Charles Stanley is a major false teacher because of his saved in sin eternal security teachings: turning grace into a license for sin.

I have never heard of anyone that believes in eternal security claim that that gives us a "license to sin". When we are born again we no longer live by the flesh but by the Spirit. As new creations in Christ the old things have passed away and we no longer desire the old sinful things. So how does a truly born again person live in flesh/sin? I think it is quite egregious to suggest that because a Christian believes God has secured his eternal destiny with Him, that he would think that that security entitles him to live in sin as he pleases. For me it is the opposite, I want nothing to do with my old sinful nature and all the more want to deny myself and serve the Lord because of what He did for me.