I started this thread to keep the other threads on topic. So, if you have any questions about my personal beliefs or Atheism in general, I'll do my best to answer. But please keep such questions or attempts to convert me in this thread, so other threads do not get derailed.

'preciate it,
Mick

Are you seeking Jesus and to know Him?

Evidence & Bible Prophecy - Talk Jesus | Christian Forums

Originally Posted by Chad

Are you seeking Jesus and to know Him?

Are you asking my purposes for starting the thread and if it should be in this forum, or a question pertaining to the offer?

If the former, I didn't know where else to put it. And since it has less to do with Biblical topics, I thought it'd be me appropriate here.

If the latter, I am seeking to learn more about Jesus, his teachings, and Christianity.

You claim to be an atheist, I would sure appreciate it if you could explain
how you arrived at your conclusion.

Before I became a Christian I honestly had no idea whether God did or did not exist.

It was a mystery beyond my understanding.

Originally Posted by David777

You claim to be an atheist, I would sure appreciate it if you could explain
how you arrived at your conclusion.

Before I became a Christian I honestly had no idea whether God did or did not exist.

It was a mystery beyond my understanding.

Its not exactly a conclusion per se, is it? im an atheist too, and im at where you were. I have no idea whether God does or doesnt exist. Im sure you didnt come to the conclusion that you had no idea whether God did or did not exist, this was just the way you were before you came to your conclusion that God does exist.

In any case, sorry for butting in.

Originally Posted by Michael D.

I started this thread to keep the other threads on topic. So, if you have any questions about my personal beliefs or Atheism in general, I'll do my best to answer. But please keep such questions or attempts to convert me in this thread, so other threads do not get derailed.

'preciate it,
Mick

Two suggestions - Checkout this website: Ask Questions about Life and God

Read this book: The Reason for God
by Timothy Keller

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

i aint got nothing to gain if you believe me or not. i done heard God speak.

i wasnt intoxicated either. if you are willing to live a life that honors and respects him, and you pray to him with pure intentions, not holding back a part of your life or heart, and you are willing to abandon your sin thru repentance, and seek him with prayer, He will speak or at least you can feel his presence. He will reveal Himself. in someway that you will know beyond a mere "faith" that only defines to another what you believe.

i do not have any questions.

Belief and atheism?

Definition of belief;

i) Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something

Definition of atheism;

i) Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

So from the two definitions, an atheist is convinced (believes) that God does not exist.

This is my understanding of what an atheist holds to be true.

If you agree with the above then I will state precisely the problem
I have with atheism.

Firstly the definition of God;

God,

a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, creator and ruler of the universe.

Now, if we examine the definition of God the problem
is apparent.

1) There is no known example of "perfection" it is not
observable by man, it is but an idea. How is it possible
to even imagine a perfect entity?

2) Omnipotent, all powerful, again beyond human
comprehension. Why define words that we no ability
to understand.

3) Omniscient, all knowing, seriously do we have any
idea what that word is supposed to mean. "All knowing"
for mankind whose knowledge is based on arrays of
assumptions it is a ridiculous word and invalid definition.

Why attempt to define what essentially is far beyond the
ability of the human mind. Then we have an atheist who
confidently asserts that they do not believe in God?

What exactly does an atheist believe asanima and why?

Originally Posted by David777

Belief and atheism?

Definition of belief;

i) Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something

Definition of atheism;

i) Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

So from the two definitions, an atheist is convinced (believes) that God does not exist.

Let me just break here for a second.

The problem i have with your analysis, is whether disbelief, counts as a belief itself. I agree with both your definitions, but the conclusion that you have drawn, isnt something that i believe. I dont believe that God does not exist.

My understanding of Atheism goes like this.

There are two claims being addressed here.

God does exist
God does not exist

A belief necessarily addresses one claim. You can either believe, or disbelieve the claim. However, you can disbelieve both claims as unproven and be non-committal on both the claims. Disbelief of both claims doesnt necessarily present a contradiction.

Its like when you flip a coin. The outcome is either heads, or not heads. If we are talking about reasonable belief, a belief that is justified, and not just a "im just going to guess", then you cannot believe that it is either heads or not heads, because you have insufficient reason to justify your belief. Its the equivalent of when you said "I have no idea".

This is my understanding of what an atheist holds to be true.

If you agree with the above then I will state precisely the problem
I have with atheism.

Firstly the definition of God;

God,

a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, creator and ruler of the universe.

Now, if we examine the definition of God the problem
is apparent.

1) There is no known example of "perfection" it is not
observable by man, it is but an idea. How is it possible
to even imagine a perfect entity?

Partial agreeance. The problem with your first problem with the definition of God, is the fact that we can have concepts without being able to imagine it in its entirety. A perfect example, is a perfect circle. Pardon the pun. The perfect physical circle, is something that is pretty much impossible. There will always be some sort of imperfection whether it be drawn with a compass or on a computer screen. It only exists as a concept. I cannot imagine a perfect circle in my head, and have it actually perfect, all i know is the concept of what a perfect circle is.

2) Omnipotent, all powerful, again beyond human
comprehension. Why define words that we no ability
to understand.

Agreed, sort of, if we consider the above statement made.

3) Omniscient, all knowing, seriously do we have any
idea what that word is supposed to mean. "All knowing"
for mankind whose knowledge is based on arrays of
assumptions it is a ridiculous word and invalid definition.

Well, philosophers have been tackling this, and although there isnt a complete consensus, there are equally valid groups of thought on this.

Why attempt to define what essentially is far beyond the
ability of the human mind. Then we have an atheist who
confidently asserts that they do not believe in God?

What exactly does an atheist believe asanima and why?

The problem here is two-fold, to me.

Firstly, you are making an argument that could potentially backfire on a theist. If you do not understand, then how can you claim to believe in something to which you have no real grasp of?

Secondly, again, there are things that only exist in our mind. There is no example of a unicorn in real life, or a perfect circle. But we can still discuss these things, because we have a good understanding of the definition of what a perfect circle is, or what a unicorn is. And by that same method, you and I have a good understanding of what the definition of Omnipotence, omnibenevolence, etc is, and therefore, we can discuss it with the understanding that, we may not be able to demonostrate what perfection is, but we still know what the definition of it is.

But, as i said before, the definition of what constitutes an atheist is disbelief, and not necessarily belief. I am certain there are atheists out there who believe there is no God, but im not one of them, atleast not within the context of our discussion. And by that i mean epistemology, how we define knowledge in relation to belief, etc, but im not going into that too deeply unless you want to discuss it further, which is fine with me.

I read your reply, interesting analysis, so in reply.

You stated,

"The problem i have with your analysis, is whether disbelief, counts as a belief itself."

You can either believe God does exist or you can believe God does not exist, of course.

An atheist by definition denies the existence of God anasima.

You are not an atheist if you are unsure whether God exists anasima.

May I recommend agnosticism which is more in keeping with claims that may not be proven.

Next you stated,

"The problem with your first problem with the definition of God,
is the fact that we can have concepts without being able to imagine it in its entirety. "

I can imagine a circle, it has physical dimensions.

God is spirit anasima, non physical, undefined, beyond intellect.

There is no comparison between God and the concept of a perfect circle.

Further on anasima you stated regarding omniscient,

"Well, philosophers have been tackling this, and although there isnt a complete consensus,
there are equally valid groups of thought on this."

Philosophy is unable to make inroads into concepts of omniscient,
simply because we are finite creatures. Omniscience is only a word
with an invalid definition, it is not definable and never was definable.

Finally you stated,

"Firstly, you are making an argument that could potentially backfire on a theist.
If you do not understand, then how can you claim to believe in something to
which you have no real grasp of?"

I am not a theist, there is no definition of God that I could ever accept as far as intellectual
propositions are concerned. Every definition I have seen is invalid. Zero probability of backfire.

Epistemology suffers the same fate as the definition of God.

What is truth???