Ephesians 5:18-20:
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Ephesians 5:18-20:
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

I thought for years that the above scripture was drink no longer wine? Must have heard it from a preacher, or todays uninformed Church about the truth of drinking. This can also cause offence once the unlearned see the sciptures for themselves, big mistake to do so...the saints need to be told the truth about these things to avoid offence because of lies about it. We hear many preachers say it is evil to drink wine or call drinking evil, these are the touch not handle not crowd. Doctrines of devils are here to stay, but its to bad for the unlearned as they now judge one another over it.

The early Church used it in moderation, some used it as a pain killer (ie Timothy), no Tylenol of Percocet back then. Today we spend to much time makeing up sins because of a weak conscience, and the weak are teaching the saints to be more weak as time goes by, yes wine is dangerous as is any alcoholic beverage... but so is lies about it.

So i quess the question would be, should we teach lies about drinking to hold the doctrines of men, and break a commandment of God? let God be true and every man a liar.

But as Paul would say if any man thinks something is unclean, then to HIM it is unclean. Therefore don't preach your weak conscience over the pulpit. And stop judgeing one another over meat and drink... also don't destroy your brother with your strong conscience... or wine.

God bless

would have to agree with the prior post that moderation in drinking and in most things is called for. Have been to a lot of weddings and cannot recall one where the alcohol ran low because people were abstaining. Weddings are a time of celebration and from my experience the alcohol helps loosen some people up a little.
Of course in NT times they did not have to worry about driving home, but given that they ran out of wine, you can bet that there had to be some there that did not make it home on their own. To me if one is responsible and this is done among family and friends that would look out for those that have a few too many, that this is all part of celebrating life.

after any post or edit my connection stalls.....hmmmmmmm

seesm we r not use to this server

"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore, honor God with your body." (1 Cor 6:19-20).

I don't agree with passing off the accidental drunkenness that comes on people at social functions as "part of the celebration of life."

In 1983, God lifted me out of a thirty year addiction to alcohol. All my drunken escapades were "accidental" in that I never set out to get drunk when I drank, but I usually ended up soused.

SLE

I Praise God SLE for your sobriety. Going by all the scriptures mentioned, to me it doesn't say drinking alcohol is wrong, but in excess it is. And alot of people just do not know what their limit is. I for one cannot handle alcohol, even in moderation. I have not an addiction to it, but drinking alcohol excessively in the past has got myself into alot of trouble. Even after being saved, I still drank and was a terrible witness for Christ. I now do not drink alcohol at all, I have no desire for it whatsover, the smell of it makes me feel nauseus, . And I am thankful to the Lord for this.

I believe I may have contributed to my oldest sons drinking habits, who no longer lives with us but he and my youngest son has seen me drunk in the past and it was a terrible thing for them to witness. It has taken a couple of years for my youngest to see that I have changed in this area and I am now a good example and witness for Christ. I do not want to be the cause of my son or anyone elses downfall. If I drink and a Christian brother or sister who are still young in their faith see me drink alcohol, it may mislead them and cause them to stumble.

1 Cor 8:9 'But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak.'

Calluna

I don't believe that your drinking did anything to encourage your son to take up the habit. Many, many times, as people have told their stories in recovery program meetings, I've heard them say that they had sworn that they would never become drunks and behave as their father/mother did. Yet, because there seems to be something in the root cause of addictive behavior that causes the addict's brain to ignore the pain of past experiences, they did become alcoholics/drug addicts.


My daughter witnessed my alcoholic stupidity quite often in her grade school years, yet, at the age of 14, she took up drinking and drugging until my wife and I forced her into a rehab program. She's been clean and sober 21 years.


SLE

I, like SLE, was bound by alcohol for many years and finally after much embarrassment and humiliation I called on God to deliver me and He did. I am no longer an alcoholic.

In discussing the rights and wrongs of alcohol listed in the scriptures, one can justify themselves in either of the two. My opinion, which is based on my own life experiences is this; I cannot recall one person ever saying that they had a wonderful life and they owe it all to alcohol, or that alcohol even enriched their life in any measure. But I have witnessed many that have attributed destruction and devastation in their life and the lives of their family to alcohol. Now again this is just my observation but I would like to meet some or even one who can honestly say that their life is bettered because of alcohol. When given into, and allowed to lead, it seems that alcohol always leads to trouble so I have found it best to leave it alone.

I do not see any good that comes from drinking even the least amount of alcohol. I am not stating this from a legalistic platform or wish to enforce my opinion upon others. Just seems that nothing good comes from it. And I go with the idea that we have all liberty, but if it stumbles ourself or others, why take that liberty. I've never seen a winning argument for drinking alcohol, only that the person wishes to keep it in their lives.

I used to drink heavily and know some that have died from it. I also know many that do drink only a little at a time. They've told me it relaxes and gives them peace from stress in their lives.

To me, in my opinion... That's what a relationship through prayer with God does. Does it not?

I think that is exactly what Paul was saying to the Church members. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. But don't judge the ones who can. It is plain to see from scripture that alcohol is not forbiden, just drunkeness and rioting, and being a total reject. The ones who forbid meats or drinks are warned not to do so. The drunkard and liar will both find themselves in the same place. Its probably a converted drunkard who started this no drinking alcohol doctrine in the first place. Like i said the doctrines of devils are here to stay.

1Ti 3:8 Likewise [must] the deacons [be] grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;


1Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.


Like i said above some used it for pain. So yes it did serve a good purpose...



Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.


Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.


And last but not least, don't destroy your weak brother...


Rom 14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.


Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.


God bless