The Spirit departs?

Travis · Feb 28, 2015

Grace said:
I believe we are three part being...spirit, soul and body. I believe our spirit was born again at salvation. Our mind is being renewed by His Word and our body at his coming.

I agree,

Our spirit is sealed until the day of redemption. It is clean and untouchable. Our souls are being renewed, being sanctified. We can hinder this process, and have some amount of say over the abundance of our soul we carry on into eternity with us. This flesh we live in is totally useless, and is not worth saving. This is why the Lord is going to give us brand new bodies at his coming.

Blessings,

Travis

Dovegiven · Mar 1, 2015

RJ said:
I respectfully explained my thoughts about Hebrews 6, that goes , as well, for Hebrews 10 .

I offer verses, as forum rules require.

Let's see, I offer 8 separate verses taken out of 8 different books of the bible that say the same thing, and all you do is say I take things out of context!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

You , on the other hand, offer no scripture to support your premise, which is against forum rules, so I can only assume you don't eve have any context at all!

Even with out scripture, I would claim my faith would justify my belief that God would never leave me, but, I doubt that you would even contextually understand that!

Quite honestly, I have no further desire to continue this silly conversation of yours ,unless you become spiritually and Biblically honest.

OK, I'll leave "discussion" with you at my already stated case, which is not based on cherry-picked verses out of context that don't deal at all with my passages in context.. Then perhaps will continue on with monologue.You have made an accusation against me, that I violated a forum rule. I will trust a moderator to determine that and submit to them, believing meanwhile the majority of witnesses know what's going on. I will remain peaceable,with no defensive emoticons, while knowing you are backed up to a theological wall with no doorway out.

RJ commented

I believe the warnings were to unbelievers ( those with out Christ in them) whether they were enlightened or not!

The warning was against apostasy, which no unbeliever could possibly commit
.
I replied

One of the listed conditions is "once enlightened". How do you support "whether they were enlightened or not"?
What unbeliever tastes of Jesus' body and blood, are partakers of the Holy Spirit, received the knowledge, wisdom and understanding of the word of God, taken part in the powers of the gifts of the Spirit, falls away from that which he was never a part of, requires to be renewed again, etc.?

How could an unbeliever do any of these conditions?

I then cited this passage which is in itself standalone scripture context, in context with what came before and after it:

Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

Click to expand...

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26-29 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

I highlighted key words that emphasize elements no unbeliever could reasonably relate to. The book of Hebrews is not directed to a Gentile heathen problem, but serves to educate Hebrew Christians (Jews that converted to Christ) who are filed with Torah and traditions of Judaism, which in modern terms is like the fist half of my saved years was as a Southern Baptist, the latter half charismatic movement/ full gospel/Assemblies of God/non-denominational in that order. It has taken a huge effort to clear some earliest doctrines that interfere with the Bible, though most of what I was taught by Baptists was truth.I got the basics there.
Paul had described in chapter 5 how that Jesus was able to save, while the Old Covenant priests could not. A majority of the book concerns his comparison of the two covenants.
Chapter 6 issues the apostasy warning for Hebrew Christians sometimes easily persuaded to depart from the gospel, drawn back into Judaism, which is apostasy from Christ. The Hebrews that had not come to the Kingdom of Heaven do not know Christ, so can't depart from him.

RJ claimed I didn't use scriptures to support my case. The above scriptures in context seem sufficient, taken from two chapters, the context around them consistent with my claims.

Verses from any other book are improperly applied if conflicting with whole passages of another book. A person's "faith" is not truth unless fully supported by scriptures, otherwise stands as a traditional belief, in the class of myth.

Maybe the word "context" is being misunderstood. Assuming RJ didn't read context around my scripture quotes, here's some for the chapter ten passage I used.
Hebrews 10:19-25 (KJV)
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

The context is entirely applicable to believers, Christians, Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians alike. From the above I summarize:
We have access to the throne of God by the blood of Jesus
We have a new and living way by the body of Jesus.
We have the highest high priest of the kingdom of God.
We draw near to God prepared
We don't waiver in faith.
We provoke one another to love and do good works
We love to assemble to exhort one another, not just on Sundays, but are free to assemble whenever we wish, and God will meet with us.
on to verse 26 and the rest of my citation plus a little more context.
Hebrews 10:26-31 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

That ought to be sufficient, offered in love and in truth, I rest my case.

TaylorDonBarret · Mar 1, 2015

I would say that on the day a believer is born again, they receive The Holy Spirit which will never leave them nor forsake them.....

...with this exception = Unless they deliberately reject The Holy Spirit.

People use verses like John 6:37 and John 10:27-29 and Philippians 1:6 to argue that "once saved, always saved". But I disagree.

John 6:37 says that Jesus will not cast you out, but It does not say that Jesus will never let you leave. The key difference here being Jesus maknig you leave vs. letting you leave. Different things entirely.

John 10:27-29 says that no one is able to snatch you out of the Father's hand, but it does not say that The Father will never let you leave if you want to. Key difference here being someone stealing you from The Father vs. The Father letting you leave. Two very different things.

In both of those examples, the idea is that you are safe in God's presence... as long as you wish to remain there.

In Philippians 1:6 what is said is that Paul has confidence that God will complete the good work He started in them, but this is said in the context of telling them how He always thanks God for them because of their faithfulness, and how they have been such a help to him during all his trials. This is said in a sense of reassurance, to comfort a group of people are are yearning for righteousness and living holy lives, that God will indeed bring them to salvation. Why is Paul confident of this? it seems by the surrounding text that Paul is confident because he sees the great participation of these people in God's work... there is no implication that the believers can be assured of salvation if they start living like devils.

If you don't think that there will be people cast into hell who were partakers of The Holy Spirit, and who believed on Jesus; then I have a verse for you: Matthew 7:22 , where we see Jesus talking about a group of people who believed in Him, who performed many miracles by His power, who cast out demons and prophesied in His name. yet these people are cast into hell because they practiced sin (workers of lawlessness). Now, tell me, is it possible for someone to believe in Jesus and cast out demons and perform many miracles in Jesus' name if they do not have The Holy Spirit?

I think that God will give His Holy Spirit to anyone who believes in His Son; and that God will answer prayers, instruct in holiness, sanctify, and work all kinds of miracles in a persons life..... just so long as the person is willing and believing in His Son. I believe the reason God does this is twofold : 1) He wants to give everyone a chance at salvation , and 2) He wants to have increase the judgement against those who will not be saved.

Let me explain what I mean by "increase judgement against those who will not be saved". Now, I do not mean to say that God needs any help in condemning anyone. We are all deserving of hell, even the most holy of us. But what I mean to say is that God doesnt want to hear anybody saying on judgement day: 'but this is so unfair, you never taught me anything, you never answered any of my prayers, you never let me experience your Holy Spirit, you never worked any miracles in my life or made your presence known to me in a tangible way!" so in order to prevent these sorts of things from happening, I think God will teach, sanctify, fill with His Spirit, answer prayers for, and work miracles in the lives of anyone who will believe in His Son Jesus..... even though He knows a person is going to reject holiness and cause themselves to be cast into hell.

And I think if you look around yourself in the world you will see many examples of this. My first example is going to be all the unrepentant sinners you see in church every sunday. a lot of these people have amazing testimonies of the miracles God performed in their life at one time or another, of how He is answering their prayers, of how they are learning more and more from God every day. Most of these people are going to remain unrepentant sinners and die and go to hell. At least - thats what I think based on what I read in the bible.

Another group of people i would use might suprise you - but hear me out. I am talking about all the people of other religions. Jews, Muslims, Hindu's, etc. These people, though not receiving The Holy Spirit, I think do receive instruction from God, miracles from God, prayers answered from God.... purely out of the general grace that is applied to everyone on earth during their earthly lives. I do not think these are in any way signs of potential salvation, but are acts of longsuffering gentle kindness on God's part as a way to show the world that He does exist, He does love them, in hopes they might grow thirsty for Him and come to Jesus to be saved. So, this example is not so much on The Holy Spirit, but more of a general topic related sort of idea.

Anyways... I think DoveGiven did provide some good scripture on this subject already. In particular the Hebrews verse about those who have been enlightened and received the Holy Spirit, but then reject the truth and go on sinning deliberately.... thats a great verse for this subject. Also, the Old Testament examples of the Spirit of The Lord departing from people at various times. I do not think that the 'rules' were really all that different for the prophets of old then they are now for the saints of new. I know from personal experience that it seems every night when I fall asleep The Holy Spirit leaves me all by myself in the dream world I visit. Nearly every single night in my dreams I become my old self, and turn into the most depraved and sinful person.

RJ · Mar 1, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
I would say that on the day a believer is born again, they receive The Holy Spirit which will never leave them nor forsake them........with this exception = Unless they deliberately reject The Holy Spirit

I agree and I would say deliberately rejecting the Holy Spirit is not possible for a true "Born Again" Christian.

set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 2 Corinthians 1:22
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

RJ · Mar 1, 2015

RJ said:
I agree and I would say deliberately rejecting the Holy Spirit is not possible for a true "Born Again" Christian.

set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 2 Corinthians 1:22

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

I would add Taylor, by scripture and the faith God has given me, I just simply feel that God will never depart from me and I truly feel sorry those who do believe that!

TaylorDonBarret · Mar 1, 2015

the way i read those verses is assurance for the repentant sinner that they have a guarantee of salvation as long as they have The Holy Spirit living inside of them.
I do not read that someone is guaranteed salvation just because they had The Holy Spirit one time.
Do you really think that The Holy Spirit is going to save someone who turns their back on Him, who decides they would rather practice sin than commit themselves to the Lord?
It is unbiblical to say that you can go to heaven while living like the devil just because one time you believed.

TaylorDonBarret · Mar 1, 2015

RJ said:
I would add Taylor, by scripture and the faith God has given me, I just simply feel that God will never depart from me and I truly feel sorry those who do believe that!

it is biblical to say that God will never depart from those who love, trust, and obey Him. absolutely.

But I think you are dodging this verse here:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

RJ · Mar 1, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
Do you really think that The Holy Spirit is going to save someone who turns their back on Him, who decides they would rather practice sin than commit themselves to the Lord?
It is unbiblical to say that you can go to heaven while living like the devil just because one time you believed.

No I am not! What I am saying is: The Holy Spirit is not going to turn his back on a true believer. And once saved, a true believer will not turn his back on the Holy Spirit. Back slide, O.K., but turn to apostasy, no!
Let me ask you one question: Your a Born Again Christian with the Holy Spirit in you, right? Could you now turn to apostasy and all out rejection of God?

TaylorDonBarret · Mar 1, 2015

Let me answer you by asking you another question - Satan , when he was first created, do you think God gave him just as much love, just as much holiness, just as much gifts of the spirit as all the other angels? Was Satan not one of the most powerful and beautiful of all the angels? And yet he still chose to reject God.

I think it is entirely possible for a born-again believer filled with The Holy Spirit to turn their back on God in favor of sin. I feel the temptation all the time, and it is only by the grace of God that I do not yield to it.

I think it is just as possible for a spirit filled believer to reject God as it is possible for an angel to do it!

I would go so far as to say that even in heaven, if somebody decides they want to rebel against God, that they would be kicked out! Just like satan was.

Travis · Mar 1, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
I feel the temptation all the time, and it is only by the grace of God that I do not yield to it.

If it's only by the grace of God that you do not yield to it, then how can you say that you think you can choose to fall away?

Just saying...

Travis

TaylorDonBarret · Mar 1, 2015

Good question. I would say I am not resisting God's grace but actively seeking it. It seems to that at any given moment I could reject God and He would let me. I don't see anything in scripture that even remotely implies that God would force someone to stay who wants to leave.

Anyways... I would just say thank God, thank God, thank God for Jesus.

I just dont think its smart to preach a "once saved always saved" gospel.

B-A-C · Mar 1, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
Good question. I would say I am not resisting God's grace but actively seeking it. It seems to that at any given moment I could reject God and He would let me. I don't see anything in scripture that even remotely implies that God would force someone to stay who wants to leave.

Anyways... I would just say thank God, thank God, thank God for Jesus.

I just dont think its smart to preach a "once saved always saved" gospel.

The problem is that you can't separate "grace alone" from OSAS.
If there's nothing you can do (like obedience for example) to remain saved, then there is nothing you can do to get unsaved.

God gave Solomon wisdom and riches, but in the end Solomon chose idols.
The rich young ruler was seeking eternal life, Jesus told him to keep the commandments, when asked is there anything else?
Jesus told him to sell his posessions. In the end, he walked away from Jesus and Jesus let him.
Eveyone who is mentioned in Hebrews 11, was saved by being obedient. (hiding the spies, building an ark, sacrificing his son, going to foreign land,
refusing to be called Pharoah's son, etc...)

Heb 6:4-6; says those who have been partakers of the Holy Spirit - and then turned away. A partaker is not spectator, if I watch you eat a cake. I didn't partake of that cake. I only partook of it if I actually ingested it.

Heb 10:29; says someone who has sanctified by the blood of the covenant, can decide to trample it underfoot and insult the Spirit.

2 Pet 2:20; says people who have escaped the defilements of the world through Jesus, can return to vomit and pig sty they came from.

God will never leave or forsake us, but there are many example in the Bible of people leaving and forsaking God/Jesus.

B-A-C · Mar 1, 2015

If we are saved by grace alone, and there's nothing we can do to get "un-saved"... then anything goes.
Live however you want, it doesn't matter. Be homosexual, be a murderer, child-molester, and commit adultery all you want.
You are saved by grace alone, so it doesn't matter. Obedience has nothing to do with your salvation, so live it up.

B-A-C · Mar 1, 2015

There are those who say if you are "really" saved, then God/The Holy Spirit won't let you leave Him.
Some even believe the Holy Spirit won't let you go "too far". But yet these people sin frequently. They will even admit they sin.
So apparently God lets you do some sin (after all obedience isn't required). But he won't let you do anything too immoral.
If you end up going to far, well you were never really saved in the first place.

Also it's God's fault, because he decides who is saved and who isn't. He is the one who gives grace (which is actually a true statement)
and grace alone saves you (which is not a true statement) then anyone who doesn't get saved. doesn't get saved because God doesn't
give them grace or want them to be saved.

RJ · Mar 1, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
Let me answer you by asking you another question - Satan , when he was first created, do you think God gave him just as much love, just as much holiness, just as much gifts of the spirit as all the other angels? Was Satan not one of the most powerful and beautiful of all the angels? And yet he still chose to reject God.

Lucifer has absolutely no comparison with you and I and the new Covenant.

TaylorDonBarret said:
I think it is entirely possible for a born-again believer filled with The Holy Spirit to turn their back on God in favor of sin. I feel the temptation all the time, and it is only by the grace of God that I do not yield to it.

I think you just answered my question, you are not going to (fall away) to apostasy . Turn your back on God some times, but how does a true believer fall away from a God who is in you, said he would never forsake you or leave you?

TaylorDonBarret said:
the way i read those verses is assurance for the repentant sinner that they have a guarantee of salvation as long as they have The Holy Spirit living inside of them

Do you have any verses that say the Holy Spirit will specifically leave you?

TaylorDonBarret said:
it is biblical to say that God will never depart from those who love, trust, and obey Him. absolutely.
But I think you are dodging this verse here:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame

You can't have it both ways brother. You can't say on one hand that God will never depart and say on the other hand that you can fall away to somewhere that god isn't still in you!
I have been at TJ for over 11 years now and I haven't dodged Hebrews 6:4-6 for a dozen opportunities or more!. It is not saying what you think! notice the "sticky" phrase is " if they shall fall away". There are many that hang there hat on this one phrase and ignore the rest of it! Paul says "if" not when! He is not saying that one can or will!
But, If they shall fall away, let's then see what would then be impossible: "For it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance"!! Do you Taylor, think or have been taught that it is , for any reason, impossible to bring any unbeliever to renewal and repentance if they want it?

Travis · Mar 1, 2015

B-A-C said:
If we are saved by grace alone, and there's nothing we can do to get "un-saved"... then anything goes.
Live however you want, it doesn't matter. Be homosexual, be a murderer, child-molester, and commit adultery all you want.
You are saved by grace alone, so it doesn't matter. Obedience has nothing to do with your salvation, so live it up.

I don't understand how you can be a christian for so long and not understand the gospel....

Seriously.... I don't get it

RJ · Mar 1, 2015

TaylorDonBarret said:
I don't see anything in scripture that even remotely implies that God would force someone to stay who wants to leave.

You said it yourself, a true "Born Again" Christian doesn't want to fall away! Jesus said the truth will set you free!

DHC · Mar 1, 2015

B-A-C said:
There are those who say if you are "really" saved, then God/The Holy Spirit won't let you leave Him.
Some even believe the Holy Spirit won't let you go "too far". But yet these people sin frequently. They will even admit they sin.
So apparently God lets you do some sin (after all obedience isn't required). But he won't let you do anything too immoral.
If you end up going to far, well you were never really saved in the first place.

Also it's God's fault, because he decides who is saved and who isn't. He is the one who gives grace (which is actually a true statement)
and grace alone saves you (which is not a true statement) then anyone who doesn't get saved. doesn't get saved because God doesn't
give them grace or want them to be saved.

Hello all.

There seems to be a very persistent misunderstanding on this forum regarding the Gospel
of Jesus Christ. Some folk are under the impression that a believer can fall from Grace?

Somehow a person can one day truly believe in Jesus Christ, and the next day not believe
in Jesus Christ? Let me remove any doubts that anyone may have about this apparent paradox.

Acts 2:21
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

You read that verse correctly, all who call on the name of Jesus Christ are saved. There
never should be any doubt that God will not deliver on this fundamental promise.

Should anyone ever make a claim, such as, not all people who call on the name of
Jesus Christ are saved. Then I would advise anyone who hears someone making this
absurd claim, to report this person to the nearest available inquisitor.

The scripture is very simple, the only real complexity arises, when people who do not
really understand what the text teaches. They then proceed to distort the text, by introducing
a contradictory interpretation over the top of the scripture. If the scripture states you are saved
as a consequence of the belief in Jesus Christ, and I must add, recieving the Holy Spirit, then
you are guaranteed that this is a true statement.

Heaven is populated by people who believed in Jesus Christ, fact.

People who believe in Jesus Christ will bear fruit and you will know them by their fruit, fact.

People who really believe in Jesus Christ will endure right to the end of their life, fact.

I need not continue to state the facts should I?

If a person is ever seen to fall away from the basic belief in Jesus Christ, then you can be
fully confident, that they never really, truly, believed in Jesus in the first place. Otherwise the
scripture would be distorted would it not. God is promising salvation through the belief in His
Son, that is the Gospel, this is not the promise of some split tongued politician. A gold plated
promise, a promise written in the blood of God's Son, it is impossible for God to lie to us.

God will never let you go if you really, truly, do believe in His Son, don't give the devil an inch.
There cannot exist anyone in hell, who ever really called on the name of Jesus Christ, fact.

Dovegiven · Mar 2, 2015

Here's a case of born again teachers becoming false teachers leading the simple away from the faith.
2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV)
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

It's another passage some former pastors have disliked. One had ushers pass out felt markers to literally blot this one out, as it flies in the face of OSAS. There is no way to deny it doesn't apply to a Christian that turns from the truth. Of course it is possible to do that, else you would have to discard all of Peter's two epistles because of his many statements about what a Christian must be about, for there is ample evidence our salvation hangs on living righteously, and persevering to the end, God sanctifying while man decides to serve God unto Complete sanctification. Believers have a big part in securing our salvation, not letting sin overcome us. The finishing of our salvation comes when Jesus appears. Our deliberate devotion to sanctification, remaining set apart to God's purposes, is very often discussed in the scriptures. We are not excused from that.

DHC · Mar 2, 2015

Dovegiven said:
Here's a case of born again teachers becoming false teachers leading the simple away from the faith.
2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV)
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

It's another passage some former pastors have disliked. One had ushers pass out felt markers to literally blot this one out, as it flies in the face of OSAS. There is no way to deny it doesn't apply to a Christian that turns from the truth. Of course it is possible to do that, else you would have to discard all of Peter's two epistles because of his many statements about what a Christian must be about, for there is ample evidence our salvation hangs on living righteously, and persevering to the end, God sanctifying while man decides to serve God unto Complete sanctification. Believers have a big part in securing our salvation, not letting sin overcome us. The finishing of our salvation comes when Jesus appears. Our deliberate devotion to sanctification, remaining set apart to God's purposes, is very often discussed in the scriptures. We are not excused from that.

Hello Dovegiven.

Nice to have the opportunity to discuss this interesting topic with you.

May I ask if you believe the following verse?

Acts 2:21
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

The Spirit departs?

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