Originally Posted by SpiritLedEd

I believe that the definition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is quite narrow, not broad as many assume. The religious leaders Jesus encountered during His public ministry were going crazy trying to figure out ways to discredit Him (none of which succeeded). They tried to tell the people that Jesus' miracles were done by Satan and not Jesus - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit -, which couldn't possibly be true (See Mk 3:23-30).So, the blasphemy that cannot be forgiven lies solely in intentionally and consistently giving Satan/Beelzebub credit for miracles performed by the Holy Spirit.

SLE

Simply put, "Blasphemy Of the Holy Spirt" is unbelief in Jesus Christ.

If you are an unbeliever and therefore do not have the Holy Spirit living in you....you have "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" and are not saved.

A true Christian does not and can not blasphemy the Holy Spirit!

Originally Posted by SpiritLedEd
I believe that the definition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is quite narrow, not broad as many assume. The religious leaders Jesus encountered during His public ministry were going crazy trying to figure out ways to discredit Him (none of which succeeded). They tried to tell the people that Jesus' miracles were done by Satan and not Jesus - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit -, which couldn't possibly be true (See Mk 3:23-30).So, the blasphemy that cannot be forgiven lies solely in intentionally and consistently giving Satan/Beelzebub credit for miracles performed by the Holy Spirit.

SLE

I believe Ed's definition is well considered,or at least his is the most sound I've heard.
I think Jesus was telling them they were in danger because they were not just attacking him now,which could be forgiven but now they attacking the works done through Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit.
That can't be forgiven by default because they were rejecting life itself with knowledge of what they were doing.You have to understand what darkness is before you can fully choose it.Later the apostle would refer to these same people as the synagogue of satan.

Originally Posted by Sonseeahray

I once heard a prophesy to a person who was about to commit suicide. It contained these words from the Lord. IF YOU HAVE REJECTED LIFE THEN YOU HAVE REJECTED ME.

Larry

? I want to say "so what"...but I don't want to sound rude. I have several people in my circles who tell me all the time what some prophet said about something-or-another...and they always tell me that this so-called prophet is highly credible, etc.

Hogwash. (well, usually...but perhaps, not always. Which of course, therein, lies a problem in and of itself!)

Anyways...what do you think...is probably the question here, not what some prophet once said to somebody that you overheard. :-)

RJ: God has also told us that the only unforgivable sin is unbelief!

Is this "unbelief" that you are talking about a one-time thing, or is it a continual state that you are referring to? At what point would you consider a person to be in the state of unbelief, and write them off as damned?

What I mean is: When you witness to someone, you can show the plan of salvation pretty quickly, right? In one conversation? If they walk away and do not immediately accept what you are preaching, do you consider them to have committed the unforgivable sin, right then, or do you give it a little time? If you give it time, how much? At what point do you consider that person to be in unbelief, and therefore damned for eternity—no matter what they do?

RJ: I also, with all love, disagree with your use of Hebrews 6: 4-6.
Paul is talking about individuals who were not saved in the first place.
In fact, that is why he said it is impossible to "Fall Away" once you have been saved.

Where exactly does Paul say that it is impossible to fall away? Is that the way that you read what is in Hebrews 6:4-6?

For everyone that believes that a saved person can commit suicide and make it to heaven, where you would be in the presence of Jesus evermore: What are you still doing here? ( I'm curious to hear your responses )

I wonder how many people will read these posts and decide to go ahead and kill themselves because you people have convinced them that they will make it to heaven, if they're saved? But that would just be another sin that you don't have to answer for thanks to the blood of Jesus, right? I wonder if He's happy about the way that you use His sacrifice? OSASers: You're just too busy defending your belief to stop and think rationally.

Greenfrog: From one who has contemplated this question on many occasions I can not answer for God as to whether he would condemn or forgive the act of suicide but I can totally empathise with those who click on this thread with the hope that the answers will confirm our eternal security regardless of our actions. So many events in life bring us low.....for me it was the death of my mother, my husband, my brother, my sister in law, my dog and my breast to cancer......all in this four year period....depressed did not begin to describe my desolation. I gradually found the key that tells me my mind is the control of my destination and, as I think, so I am.

I can't tell you that there are no days when I wish I could depart this life but my cat is dependent on me for food so I have to hang around. Trust is the key to survival..trust in Him....I hope anyone contemplating suicide will first talk to Jesus because he might have a particular purpose for you! To end your life without his consent is saying you do not trust him to make things okay.

Hey Greenfrog,

Peace be unto you

Sorry to hear about your great loss. A lot of people, if in your shoes, would choose to hate God after all that you've been through. I commend your faith and patience. Pray and read often. If you ever need anyone to talk to, let me know.

I also agree with your statement about ending your life without His consent being an act of distrust ( which just so happens to be not faith ).

RJ: Here is a point to think about. Say there is no doubt you are "Born Again" and completely saved. Now, for what ever reason, you become so distraught that you go insane, loose your mind and kill yourself....
are you now not saved, is this the type of condition where you say that you can't repent after your dead?

The Bible is full of people that were truly saved, right? Show me one example from scripture where a "true" man of God suffered in this manner. Sounds more like possession to me. I would say that a person suffering in this way has a demon and not God, so where your parable is of the utmost brilliance to you, to me it is an oxymoron.

RJ: I even think it is a fruit of the Spirit in us to repent.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Thiscrosshurts: Eph. 5:29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church.

I know this is out of context but I find it interesting that the statement "no one ever hated his own body" is technically incorrect.

It would be better to have said "all things being equal,no one ever hated his own body" or "no one in their right mind hates their own body".

Because it must have been obvious to the author that people are driven to suicide for a variety of reasons.Most of them having to do with suffering.A broken and contrite heart he does not despise.

Even an earthly court would consider mitigating circumstances.God is not a machine or formula with no compassion.He invented compassion.

Thiscrosshurts, why would you suggest changing the wording of Ephesians 5:29 instead of considering that maybe you just don't fully understand it? Consider this: When people are faced with choices to make, they always choose what they think is best for themselves at the time.

When you are hungry, you do what you have to do to provide food for yourself. Even anorexics became that way trying to do what they thought was best for themselves. When a person commits suicide—no matter the reason—it is because they have decided that it is the best thing for them. Even people that we consider to be "selfless" do the things that they do because it makes them feel good to do it—ask them, they'll tell you. So, they are not "technically" selfless in the sense that they are actually fulfilling a need of their own. It makes them feel good to fulfill the needs of others. We should therefore take care of our wives as selfishly as we take care of ourselves. And if we could possibly measure our selfishness, it is the equivalent of how Christ loves the church. That's how I interpret that scripture, anyway.

Fraction: In response to your other recent post, repentance is a change of mind and heart. It isn't feeling sorry or guilty. It's in a word, an agreement. You go from not agreeing, to agreeing. Not believing, to believing. Has nothing to do with feeling remorse. :D

Fraction, where did you get your definition for the word 'repentance"?

The word 'repent' is used only one way in the New Testament, and the Greek word is metanoeo; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider ( morally feel compunction ):— repent.

The definition for the word 'compunction' is: n. Remorse; contrition.

The word 'repentance' is used in two ways in the New Testament. One of the instances is the Greek word ametameletos; irrevocable:— without repentance, not to be repented of. And the only place that this word shows up is in Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Every other time that the word 'repentance' shows up in scripture, it is the Greek word metanoia; ( subjectively ) compunction ( for guilt, including reformation ); by implication reversal ( of [another's] decision ):— repentance.

The definition for the word 'repent' is: vi. To feel regret for something done or left undone; to be penitent.—vt. To remember with self-reproach or sorrow.

Thiscrosshurts: The insane man in the tombs was hurting himself and others and if he had died in that state would God condemn him for it,when his son who represented his will had mercy on him?

Thiscrosshurts, wouldn't that have been why Jesus had gone to the man to begin with? Because he needed to be released and be saved? Had he died before Christ got to him, "yes", I think that we are to assume that he would not make it to heaven. Otherwise, why did Jesus go to him, right? Or are you looking at things from some sort of predestination point of view?

Are we supposed to accept Jesus while we're here on earth, or is the fact that we would have, eventually, good enough? The five virgins were actually there waiting at one point with the others, but they had left and weren't ready when He came, and they were denied entrance. Is it ignorance that you are thinking about here? If God doesn't judge ignorance, as some put it, you are actually hurting people by preaching the gospel to them. Stop!!! Ensure their entrance to Christ's kingdom by leaving them ignorant then, and save those that you wouldn't otherwise have been able to help because of unbelief.

Thiscrosshurts: It is interesting to note that he can converse freely with the other side called "Abraham’s bosom".
He could talk to Abraham but never asked for forgiveness.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the rich man never asked for forgiveness because Abraham could not give it to him? Maybe there is no forgiveness after this life. Why would there be? You seem to be trying to put something to this verse that just isn't there.

Thiscrosshurts: I feel that someone who is tormented but has a good heart and no judgement or unforgiveness who has only experienced bad things in life would probably be comforted not tortured for eternity.

Perhaps this verse explains it. You must be one of those people that try to explain away God's anger and wrath because to some it makes Him appear to be unrighteous. Do you have a problem with a loving and just God punishing people with Hell for eternity? I admit, I have given this a lot of thought too, but I've tried to come to some sort of understanding about it, and not change the scripture around.

Thiscrosshurts: To me the rich man still seems unrepentant and even pompous when he requests Lazarus to serve him in the afterlife.

He would have seemed even more pompous had he asked Abraham to do it.

Quenton: the only way to go to Hell is to not accept Jesus as your Lord and savior

What about before the cross, Quenton? Did they all go to Hell? Had Peter fallen off of a cliff and died before Jesus died on the cross, would Peter have gone to Hell for not having accepted Christ?

dannibear, I'm sorry to hear about your friend, but I cannot in good conscience tell you that your friend went to Heaven, even if they had claimed to be a Christian—even if it would make you feel better to hear it. I won't encourage or condone the taking of one's own life. Some might believe that I lack faith, or am mislead in my beliefs, but that's okay, we'll see on Judgement Day. I know that I won't be answering for why a bunch of teenage kids killed themselves, ended up in Hell because they thought they were saved and weren't, but were encouraged to do it by something that I posted on this site.

SpiritLedEd: I believe that the definition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is quite narrow, not broad as many assume. The religious leaders Jesus encountered during His public ministry were going crazy trying to figure out ways to discredit Him (none of which succeeded). They tried to tell the people that Jesus' miracles were done by Satan and not Jesus - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit -, which couldn't possibly be true (See Mk 3:23-30).So, the blasphemy that cannot be forgiven lies solely in intentionally and consistently giving Satan/Beelzebub credit for miracles performed by the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you SpiritLed.

I read through this entire thread and saw very little scripture given on the initial subject. At the moment, I can only think of four persons in scripture that committed ( or tried to commit ) suicide. Samson, King Saul, King Saul's armourbearer, and Judas Iscariot. People that believe in Once Saved, Always Saved, would say that two of the four went to heaven, not knowing too much about the armourbearer. Some even seem to allow for Judas Iscariot because he helped to make salvation, through the cross, possible. I, personally, can only believe that one of them will be seen in Heaven.

Originally Posted by SpiritLedEd

I believe that the definition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is quite narrow, not broad as many assume. The religious leaders Jesus encountered during His public ministry were going crazy trying to figure out ways to discredit Him (none of which succeeded). They tried to tell the people that Jesus' miracles were done by Satan and not Jesus - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit -, which couldn't possibly be true (See ).So, the blasphemy that cannot be forgiven lies solely in intentionally and consistently giving Satan/Beelzebub credit for miracles performed by the Holy Spirit.

SLE

The reason why I disagree with this, is because if it were true, than the apostle Paul (Saul) would have been guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Which he clearly didn't do, because he was granted forgiveness and repentance from Jesus. Saul persecuted the apostles and born again believers in Jesus, and had them put to death. He most likely shared the views of the other Pharisees on the miracles as well.

Two important scriptures which are paramount to our understanding:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.- John 6:37

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.- 1 John 1:9

Originally Posted by David777

Your question seems incomplete.

You will need to supply more information.

I understand predestination in regards to Jesus Christ and the election of Jew and Gentile. On this the scripture is clear.

Certainly not predestination regarding every human choice now that would be a strange option to take. I am not aware of any scripture that supports this. I have witnessed many incredibly bad choices made by humans of which God is certainly not the author.

Whether suicide is wrong, I have no scripture to quote, I have not found any. But many Christians regard suicide as the ''taking of life" even your own life as wrong.

I wonder what others think about this?

Humanity is weak, we are prone to 'do the wrong thing' to accommodate sin, the 'flesh'.

Some have taken their own life as a result of naive mistake, sinful or otherwise.

God is mercyful......who can say.......?

Is killing yourself a righteous or unrighteous act?
Wouldn't it be a little difficult to argue that committing suicide is a righteous thing to do?

philosopher: Originally Posted by SpiritLedEd

I believe that the definition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is quite narrow, not broad as many assume. The religious leaders Jesus encountered during His public ministry were going crazy trying to figure out ways to discredit Him (none of which succeeded). They tried to tell the people that Jesus' miracles were done by Satan and not Jesus - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit -, which couldn't possibly be true (See ).So, the blasphemy that cannot be forgiven lies solely in intentionally and consistently giving Satan/Beelzebub credit for miracles performed by the Holy Spirit.

SLE
The reason why I disagree with this, is because if it were true, than the apostle Paul (Saul) would have been guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Which he clearly didn't do, because he was granted forgiveness and repentance from Jesus. Saul persecuted the apostles and born again believers in Jesus, and had them put to death. He most likely shared the views of the other Pharisees on the miracles as well.

Two important scriptures which are paramount to our understanding:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.- John 6:37

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.- 1 John 1:9

Okay, philosopher, what do you think blaspheming the Holy Ghost is then? I have always felt that the gospel of Mark does a good job of clarifying what blaspheming the Holy Ghost is:

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

Mark 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

Mark 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Mark 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Mark 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Mark 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

These last three verses make it pretty clear to me. The Pharisees SAID that Jesus was able to cast devils out of people by using the power of Beelzebub, the prince of the devils, and Jesus' response to them followed. In another place it is said that the blasphemy against the Son of Man would even be forgiven. When someone doesn't recognize the power of God ( that that was obvious in Jesus when he performed all of the many miracles which he did ) then that person will NEVER be convinced enough to live their lives for the Lord. If you can't ( or won't ) recognize God, you can't serve Him. And the only way that we get to see God is through the act of miracles.

I believe that is also why he said this the way that he did:

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

And, those two verses are paramount to YOUR understanding, coming to the conclusions that YOU have come to. I prefer to keep verses like these in mind:

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. ( And I can never help but notice that there isn't any exceptions here )

Originally Posted by Stickz

Is killing yourself a righteous or unrighteous act?
Wouldn't it be a little difficult to argue that committing suicide is a righteous thing to do?

Wait a minute...the question of the thread/poll is do you go to hell if you commit suicide.

Are you suggesting that there is a correlation between our eternal destiny, and the nature of the acts we do (i.e., righteous, or unrighteous)?? (in this case, the final act)

Hi Stickz, we actually agree on this topic more than you appear to think. I've always felt that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is just the outright denial and rejection of Jesus as Lord and saviour. A person has only committed this sin if they died without accepting Jesus though. Examine Mark 3:29 for instance.

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.(KJV)

It tells us that by the persons denial, they're ''in danger of'' eternal damnation, not that they have already lost hope.

The reason I listed these scriptures before: 1 John 1:9, John 6:37

Is because it just shows that ALL sins will be forgiven if the person calls out to Jesus. A person who is blaspheming the Holy Spirit has rejected Jesus, therefore they cannot have their sins forgiven because they won't see the point in calling out to him.