The Spirit departs?

[B-A-C]

Certain times in the Bible we see the Spirit of the Lord departs from people.

1 Sam 16:14; Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.

Jdg 16:20; She said, "The Philistines are upon you, Samson!" And he awoke from his sleep and said, "I will go out as at other times and shake myself free." But he did not know that the Spirit of the LORD had departed from him.

It seems sometimes God can leave us, and we don't even realize it when He is gone.

David also seemed concerned about God taking His Spirit away.

Psa 51:11; Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

There are times when Spirit dwells in us. But the Bible also speaks of insulting the Spirit, resisting the Spirit and even grieving the Spirit. ( Eph 4:30; Heb 10:29; Acts 7:51; )

There are people who believe that just because they have taken of communion that the Spirit abides in them. On course in the Bible receiving the Holy Spirit was always a separate event that required either speaking in tongues or laying of hands. At least after Jesus ascended there is other way recorded of people receiving the Holy Spirit.

Another thing to keep in mind about the taking of communion, is that it isn't a one thing thing. It needs to be from
time to time to re-establish our relationship with Christ. The Bible even mentions sometimes people take of communion unworthily. ( 1 Cor 11:27-30; )

Some take partials scriptures such as ...
Jhn 6:56-57; to mean I have partaken of communion therefore Jesus abide in me.
Yet the Bible also says other things are required in order for Jesus to abide in us... for example...
1 Jn 3:24; 1 Jn 4:15-16;

In fact 2 Jn 1:9; says we can go to too far and God will no longer abide in us.

In Jas 4:7; we are told to submit to God, this of course implies that we have the power to either resist of submit.

 

[B-A-C]

Some believe that all of past and future sins are forgiven when we receive Jesus. But the Bible doesn't teach this either.

John 13:9; Simon Peter *said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
John 13:10; Jesus *said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."
John 13:11; For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, "Not all of you are clean."

Even though we are saved, every once in a while we need to have our "feet washed". We don't need to re-bathed, or re-saved.
But we do need to come clean about our sins from time to time.

Jas 5:16; Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

1Jn 1:8; If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9; If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10; If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 Pet 2:20; For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.

 

[RJ]

1 Sam 16:14; Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.

Jdg 16:20; She said, "The Philistines are upon you, Samson!" And he awoke from his sleep and said, "I will go out as at other times and shake myself free." But he did not know that the Spirit of the LORD had departed from him.

You can't equate what happened in the Old Covenant to the New Covenant, you should know this!

There are times when Spirit dwells in us. But the Bible also speaks of insulting the Spirit, resisting the Spirit and even grieving the Spirit. ( Eph 4:30; Heb 10:29; Acts 7:51; )

Ephesians 4:30 Hmmm! Nothing here about God departing from you?
Hebrews 10:29 Hmmm! Nothing here about the Spirit departing from you!
Acts 7:51 Hmmm! Nothing here about God departing from you!
None of these has anything to do with God departing from You!

Yet the Bible also says other things are required in order for Jesus to abide in us... for example...
1 Jn 3:24; 1 Jn 4:15-16;

1 John 3:24 Hmmm!, This says nothing about God pulling his spirit out of you?
John 4: 15-16 Hmm! Another verse that has nothing to do with the Spirit departing from you?

In fact 2 Jn 1:9; says we can go to too far and God will no longer abide in us.

2 John 1:9 Hmmm!, Nothing here about the Spirit departing from you!

In Jas 4:7; we are told to submit to God, this of course implies that we have the power to either resist of submit.

James 4:7 This is about the devil fleeing from you not the Spirit of God.

Brother, I don't know what is going on here, but I am about to loose all respect for what I thought was a seasoned Christian.
You start a thread about the Spirit Departing. The last time I opened up the Bible, it told me that before the spirit could depart from you, he had to be in you in the first place! I quoted seven verse that you used to support your thread about the Spirit departing and unequivocally, absolutely none of the verses have the slightest thing to do with the Spirit departing to anywhere....not even close.......what's going on? Why would you miss-use all these scriptures to falsely support your thread? If I am wrong, please explain.

 

[RJ]

Certain times in the Bible we see the Spirit of the Lord departs from people.

1 Sam 16:14; Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.

Jdg 16:20; She said, "The Philistines are upon you, Samson!" And he awoke from his sleep and said, "I will go out as at other times and shake myself free." But he did not know that the Spirit of the LORD had departed from him.

It seems sometimes God can leave us, and we don't even realize it when He is gone.

David also seemed concerned about God taking His Spirit away.

Psa 51:11; Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

There are times when Spirit dwells in us. But the Bible also speaks of insulting the Spirit, resisting the Spirit and even grieving the Spirit. ( Eph 4:30; Heb 10:29; Acts 7:51; )

There are people who believe that just because they have taken of communion that the Spirit abides in them. On course in the Bible receiving the Holy Spirit was always a separate event that required either speaking in tongues or laying of hands. At least after Jesus ascended there is other way recorded of people receiving the Holy Spirit.

Another thing to keep in mind about the taking of communion, is that it isn't a one thing thing. It needs to be from
time to time to re-establish our relationship with Christ. The Bible even mentions sometimes people take of communion unworthily. ( 1 Cor 11:27-30; )

Some take partials scriptures such as ...
Jhn 6:56-57; to mean I have partaken of communion therefore Jesus abide in me.
Yet the Bible also says other things are required in order for Jesus to abide in us... for example...
1 Jn 3:24; 1 Jn 4:15-16;

In fact 2 Jn 1:9; says we can go to too far and God will no longer abide in us.

In Jas 4:7; we are told to submit to God, this of course implies that we have the power to either resist of submit.

No reply to my post #3, about faulty scripture you used ?

 

[judge not]

there were some in the Old Testament that were given the Spirit of God.throughout Israel's history. The Bible taught people, like King David
and King Saul who were called by God could have the Holy spirit " taken " from them who are obstinately sinful and unrepentant.
Paul in the New Testament further develops this point in Hebrews 6.
The NT relies on teachings and understandings of the OT hundreds of times in the New Covenant. The Holy Spirit transcends all agreements (covenants) and is the
predominant factor in our relationship with God-we can lose that connection when we sin and do not repent after partaking of the Holy spirit. But God is always willing to receive us back when we return to him in repentance.

 

[Grace]

In the OT it says that God filled individuals with His Spirit. In Exodus it says that God filled Bezalel with the Spirit. Numbers 27:18 says that God filled Joshua with His Spirit. Since this was OT, these men were not born again. Christ had not come and died and been raised from the dead yet. So were these men filled in another area, like his soul or body?
Under the Law of Moses they were only atonement or covering over of their sins. They could not remove sin! Remission is whern your sins are absolutely removed completely away.
Hebrews 11:39 says that the OT saints obtained a good testimony through faith, but did not receive the promise.
Could the infilling that the OT receive be the same as Acts 2? It was power to BE witnesses to do what God called them to do...

 

[judge not]

I am of the persuasion that the Spirit of God of the Old Testament is the same Spirit imparted to those on the day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit that we read of in the NT and in today's empowerment is the same power of God promised to the disciples of Christ- Luke 24:49
I believe Hebrews 11:39 is speaking of the promise of eternal life that yet has to be received by those in Christ at the time of the second coming of Jesus. 1 Cor 15:23

 

[Grace]

I am of the persuasion that the Spirit of God of the Old Testament is the same Spirit imparted to those on the day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit that we read of in the NT and in today's empowerment is the same power of God promised to the disciples of Christ- Luke 24:49
I believe Hebrews 11:39 is speaking of the promise of eternal life that yet has to be received by those in Christ at the time of the second coming of Jesus. 1 Cor 15:23

I believe Hebrews is speaking of total redemption. Again OT saints could atone or cover their sins by faith in the coming Christ through the ceremonies. The picture of the scapegoat is a picture of what Jesus would do...take our sins away. Like Abraham they believed God and it was accounted to them for righteousness. They obtained a good testimony or report in the presence of God.
I believe also that it was the SAME Spirit! But can the Spirit indwell an OT believer spirit if it has not been born again? That is why I ask did the Holy Spirit indwell an OT soul and not his spirit.

 

[RJ]

The picture of the scapegoat is a picture of what Jesus would do...take our sins away.

Yes a picture of Christ taking our sins away from the sight of God.

 

[Dovegiven]

I think a more brotherly manner is to provide support to B-A-Cs OP with positive remarks. Let's try.
The Holy Spirit did indwell the Wilderness Tabernacle and Solomon's Temple. He also departed like a tornado rising back into the clouds.
I can think of were two ways the Holy Spirit fellowshiped with men in the OT, plus came to be with/upon people for a specific help, and some cases of departure of the Spirit

The pouring of oil by Samuel upon David's head as a boy yet but a shepherd is symbolic of anointing of the Spirit upon a person.
1 Samuel 16:13-14 (KJV)
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

There we see the Spirit coming upon one, departing from the other. The Spirit is not required to remain in the presence of unrepented sin.

Exodus 31:1-5 (KJV)
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah:
3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,
4 To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
5 And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship.

Bezaleel received the indwelling Spirit to perform an extremely important task in building the tabernacle. Others were filled with wisdom, various anointings for specific assignments.

Of great interest around this is the boy Jesus and those around him, living under the Law, a Jew of the Old Covenant. Scriptures indicate he was treated like David, anointing him, but not filling him with the Spirit until it was time for that, to begin his ministry. He grew up in OT times.
Luke 1:41-42 (KJV)
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

We don't know how long the Spirit remained filling Elizabeth, but I take it that she was filled for a specific role of the moment like Bezaleel was filled.
I do know the Spirit came in, on, near, and departed.

Luke 1:67-68 (KJV)
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

I don't doubt the Holy Spirit can fill someone temporarily to deliver a one-time message of the gospel.

John was filled with the Spirit in the womb.
Luke 1:15-16 (KJV)
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
Luke 1:80 (KJV)
80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.

That obviously was a filling that didn't empty.
Of Jesus, his cousin....
Luke 2:40 (KJV)
40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Luke 2:52 (KJV)
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Reading of the Holy Spirit departing from someone in the New Testament is uncommon, but it happened and was warned would happen in Hebrews for people who forsake Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:19-20 (KJV)
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Philetus was another false teacher that ruined his usefulness.

Then we come to the two dire warnings in Hebrews chapters 6 and 10 concerning enlightened believers turning to willful sin. In both cases there would be absolutely no good purpose for the Holy Spirit to remain in, on, or near someone meeting all those conditions of rebellion.

 

[RJ]

Then we come to the two dire warnings in Hebrews chapters 6 and 10 concerning enlightened believers turning to willful sin. In both cases there would be absolutely no good purpose for the Holy Spirit to remain in, on, or near someone meeting all those conditions of rebellion

I believe the warnings were to unbelievers ( those with out Christ in them) whether they were enlightened or not!

I think a more brotherly manner is to provide support to B-A-Cs OP with positive remarks. Let's try.

I am not sure if you were talking to me or not, but how do you respond to someone using scripture to support what you're telling us and those scriptures have nothing to do to support that stance?

 

[Dovegiven]

I believe the warnings were to unbelievers ( those with out Christ in them) whether they were enlightened or not!

One of the listed conditions is "once enlightened". How do you support "whether they were enlightened or not"?
What unbeliever tastes of Jesus' body and blood, are partakers of the Holy Spirit, received the knowledge, wisdom and understanding of the word of God, taken part in the powers of the gifts of the Spirit, falls away from that which he was never a part of, requires to be renewed again, etc.?

How could an unbeliever do any of these conditions?

Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26-29 (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[Dovegiven]

I believe the warnings were to unbelievers ( those with out Christ in them) whether they were enlightened or not!

I am not sure if you were talking to me or not, but how do you respond to someone using scripture to support what you're telling us and those scriptures have nothing to do to support that stance?

Respond with truth, not merely rebuke.

 

[RJ]

Respond with truth, not merely rebuke.

The truth has been forthwith on many an occasion but your point is good to remember.

 

[Dovegiven]

The truth has been forthwith on many an occasion but your point is good to remember.

Well spoken, brother. Now let's get back to the OP, giving answer to my post #11 challenging your comment in post #10. I left the discussion on evidence of a way
the Spirit would be compelled to leave a believer, to which you said applied to unbelievers. I'm pressing for truth, not traditional doctrine.

I've been guilty of passing on many old doctrines for years out of ignorance, not even willing to challenge a precious set of "This We Believe" fundamentals that sometimes
are not truth. It was just "something a good Christian ought to do, kicking against the goad ", which tends to prevent thinking for oneself. I left two denominations when suppressed from seeking.
Now I know to challenge such things, and be challenged, that I can grow in truth.

 

[judge not]

Grace:

Total redemption is required to receive eternal life-which is a future promise of salvation, which nobody yet has received. Earlier in Hebrews 11:13 all the great people of the OT all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seem them afar off.......
They did not receive the promises of eternal life yet. God decreed that the firstfruits of the Lamb shall all be resurrected at the same time at the second coming of Christ.
Eternal redemption is different than total redemption.
Born again has been used rather than the word begotten.in most cases. You cannot be born again unless you are Spirit-right now you are still flesh-John 3
In 2 Peter 3:3-13 - " Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness "

 

[RJ]

Now let's get back to the OP, giving answer to my post #11 challenging your comment in post #10. I left the discussion on evidence of a way
the Spirit would be compelled to leave a believer, to which you said applied to unbelievers. I'm pressing for truth, not traditional doctrine

• my post #11 challenging your comment in post #10 OK, I think you have the post ownership is reversed but I am sure I have your question right because it is a familiar one, one ! have answered for years at TJ.
• I'm pressing for truth, not traditional doctrine We all should be pressing for truth and, I am not sure what "traditional doctrine" means to you but, to me it is the same as truth, traditional doctrine is bible based.
• Spirit would be compelled to leave a believer...I will give you just a few scriptures that denies this and you can give scriptures that support it, O.K.:thumbsup:

1. Hebrews 6:4-6 In the Epistle to the Hebrews, the author is actually explaining a problem that Paul had with the church at that time. The early church had problems with infiltrators from the temple. These "professing Christians" in the church, would in fact, on the side, tell their brothers that "The Way" was fine but they needed to go back to the Temple and participate in sacrifices. These False Christians, were, in fact non-believers. The writer was telling the true Christians that these False Christians could not fall away because they were not saved in the first place.
2. Deuteronomy 31:8 8 It is the Lord who goes before you; he will be with you, he will not fail you or forsake you; do not fear or be dismayed.”
3. Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you or forsake you.”
4. Joshua 1:9 Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.”
5. Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
6. Psalm 55:20 Cast your burden on the Lord, and he will sustain you; he will never permit the righteous to be moved
7. Joshua 1:5 No man shall be able to stand before you all the days of your life. Just as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you or forsake you.
8. John 6:37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
9. Philippians 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

I don't' see any Biblical proof that God will ever leave a true "born again" believer! Maybe you can provide some?:glasses:

 

[Dovegiven]

I see many verses taken out of context that don't include the vital conditions that lead up to those promises. I still await yur response to biblical contest if Hebrews chapters 6 and 10, taking into account at least the content of both whole chapters. It's a matter of flesh wanting the flesh sweetness without performance. I am reminded of a formerly very productive, highly trained employee I made a salaried staff member. His productivity went to nearly zero over the next several months. I began cutting off bonuses, refused a Christmas holiday paid vacation, then continued to cut his check to bare bones while appealing to the whole of the staff to do the best they can. He protested by not even showing up, then had an attorney send me a threat. I called him in. He told me "You promised me a steady salary, but now you keep cutting my paycheck. You promised." I answered that he stopped doing his job as soon as making staff, in defiance of my statements of my expectations upon promoting him. I said "I will offer to use your bonus money to pay the attorney fee, then give you notice of dismissal if you still refuse to perform your duties as you were expected to do. I have the evidence, you can't succeed in this." He straightened up and devoted his 40 hours to the company, then went beyond that, and prospered. I paid his attorney the $4,000, as the man was well worth investing in, but only if he continued to be a team member. It all worked out just fine.

I tell that to perhaps demonstrate what I think you are doing. You want the end benefits, but didn't stress all the conditions the Lord and his apostles taught that his disciples are to be about to qualify. The way your verses are listed indicates it doesn't matter what a person does once in Jesus' troop. I will cite the case of Judas Iscariot to that.

I await your answer to my challenge, what to do with those passages in Hebrews chapters 6 and 10. While at it, you might well explan what happened to kings Saul and Solomon at their ends.

 

[RJ]

I await your answer to my challenge, what to do with those passages in Hebrews chapters 6 and 10. While at it, you might well explan what happened to kings Saul and Solomon at their ends.

• I respectfully explained my thoughts about Hebrews 6, that goes , as well, for Hebrews 10 .
• I offer verses, as forum rules require.
• Let's see, I offer 8 separate verses taken out of 8 different books of the bible that say the same thing, and all you do is say I take things out of context!:laugh::laugh::laugh:
• You , on the other hand, offer no scripture to support your premise, which is against forum rules, so I can only assume you don't eve have any context at all!
• Even with out scripture, I would claim my faith would justify my belief that God would never leave me, but, I doubt that you would even contextually understand that!
• Quite honestly, I have no further desire to continue this silly conversation of yours ,unless you become spiritually and Biblically honest.

 

[Grace]

Grace:

Total redemption is required to receive eternal life-which is a future promise of salvation, which nobody yet has received. Earlier in Hebrews 11:13 all the great people of the OT all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seem them afar off.......
They did not receive the promises of eternal life yet. God decreed that the firstfruits of the Lamb shall all be resurrected at the same time at the second coming of Christ.
Eternal redemption is different than total redemption.
Born again has been used rather than the word begotten.in most cases. You cannot be born again unless you are Spirit-right now you are still flesh-John 3
In 2 Peter 3:3-13 - " Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness "

I believe we are three part being...spirit, soul and body. I believe our spirit was born again at salvation. Our mind is being renewed by His Word and our body at his coming.