The anti-christ is Seal #1, not trumpet #7

I believe the revelation of the antichrist you refer to is not his rise to power, but the revelation of who he really is. I believe his 3 1/2 year reign will already existent, and the two witnesses will reveal to the world who he is, resulting in their very public execution.

Well Brother,

You're right, the Anti-Christ comes out when the lamb breaks the first seal, but here he comes out to conquer the whole world. He is not yet risen to power. After he conquers the whole world, (this is after the 7th trumpet) he will desecrate the Jerusalem temple and claim himself to be the Son of God. He will cause all people to wear his mark.

By the way, welcome to Talk Jesus, nice to have you here.

God bless you.

I have been here for a while. But thank you.

Hi there! New here and was looking at some of these posts. Some very interesting.
There's a lot of confusion about Revelations, 2 Thessalonians and the words Jesus spoke about the end times as recorded in Luke, Matthew and Mark. One can see why; it is hard to understand prophesy which is why it needs to be read with the utmost care. There is literally hundreds of different viewpoints to all sorts of Revelations-related themes - ie. the Beast, the Whore, 666, etc. etc. The problem with most, if not all of these viewpoints is that they are not inter-related, continuous, consistent or linear. In other words, some theories believe that the Beast is a single man. If this is true, then how does "the beast that was, and is not, and yet is" (Rev. 17:8) amongst many other verses fit in to this paradigm? Fact is, it doesn't. The problem with most theories is interpretation - man's interpretation.
This brings me to 666. The actual number "666" is only mentioned once in Revelations. It is mentioned as the "number of the beast" elsewhere. 666 has been looked over the centuries to mark a specific man, country or group of nations. This pre-villification is obviously not Christian, nor accurate. Neither is this number to be found in the outside world. It is right there in the text of I Kings 10:14.
Remember that Rev 13:18 starts with "Here is wisdom..." Who is the example of wisdom personified (excepting Jesus, of course)? Solomon. What did Solomon's 666 talents of gold gain him? All of the sins "under the sun." God warned that Israel not amass wealth and weapons because it was a trap that turned away faith. So, Solomon did just that, and with his God-given wisdom recieved wealth and with his wealth broke from the faith. Finally he returned to God.
People spend so much time looking for what is not said. They take one verse and rest their theories upon it. This is entirely irresponsible especially when looking at prophecy.
666, the number of the Beast, will NOT be revealed by looking at the secular world. The number will not be cracked by those who seek to villify others. The number is no secret. It is only hidden in plain sight.

That is a fascinating perspective, connecting Solomon's wealth with the number of the beast. In all my years of study, I'd never heard that. Thank you for that insight.

Personally, I believe that many are deceived in the world and even within Christianity about that number. I've read and heard many suggestions that three sixes is the devil's number, and even that its the mark of the beast. I don't read either of those in Scripture. My studies of Scripture don't say what specifically the mark is. It's my opinion that it could refer to a microchip placed under the skin (which is already being done in USA. The military have been using this technology for several years for key personnel, and in recent years, it has been marketed as a security device. But that's my opinion.

With regards to the number of the beast's name, John wrote in Greek three numbers, and only one of them was a six. He wrote that the number of the beast's name was 600, 60, and 6. Its unfortunate that our modern english translates that to "666". Greek, like many other ancient languages, used letters for their numbering system. So, John was actually writing letters (I haven't figured out how to get my computer to allow me to type the Greek text) and it is the name of a man. The Bible was written in three original languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. If you write the numbers 600, 60, and six in each of these languages, you are writing that man's name in all three. That name is Nero Caesar. Nero matches every description of the beast in the Old and New Testaments. And he was truly the most anti-Christian that ever lived. He had his mother executed because she had become a follower of the Way. He used to have Christians tied to stakes and set afire to burn alive, to provide lighting in the arena. It drove him even further into insanity that, as the Christians were burned alive, they sang praises to God. He was killed by a sword wound to the head. These are just little inklings of the man's wickedness. John wrote Revelations after the death of Nero, so he was, but was not at the time of the writing. However, in some way (again, this would be open to interpretation and the teaching of God The Holy Spirit) John saw this beast as Nero Caesar.

Now, I believe that all these things will probably happen in my lifetime (my opinion). I am prepared to stand in as public a forum as possible then, and proclaim that this man is the beast, the antichrist, his name is Nero Caesar (I don't think he will call himself that), and the number of his name is six hundred, sixty, and six. There are two possibilities for the result of my declaration:
1. I will be executed. I'm okay with that. Hopefully, someone will be encouraged to stand up for the truth as the result of my martyrdom.
2. They may not be able to kill me. The ancient Hebrews spelled God's name, Yaweh, in such a way that they could not pronounce it. This was because of the ancient belief that, if you had (said) the name of someone, you had power over them. There is power in a name. Revelations 13:17 says:
"and that no one may buy or sell (work, eat, all that good stuff) EXCEPT one who has the mark (they will prosper at this time) OR the name of the beast OR the number of his name."
[emphasis and parenthetical mine]

So, people who are looking for the trinity of sixes as some way of identifying the beast are literally chasing after numerology and are being deceived. There are plenty of examples in our world today where people find three sixes and interpret it as being "of the devil". For example, every UPC barcode has three sixes.

Isn't it possible that the devil would utilize this preoccupation people have with "666" in the world (which is his domain)? Wouldn't Satan be delighted if he ushered in his final attempt to take the world while multitudes of believers don't even recognize it, because they 1) don't believe the church will be here for it and 2) It has nothing to do with "666"?
Selah (think about it)

Peace to you.

Well, Mike, It couldn't of been Nero. Let me give you some key verses on why he wasn't.

1# he didn't use any mark to stop trading, buying or selling.
Revealtion 13:16 ¹⁶And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

2# He killed himself. Revelation says Jesus would kill him
Revealtion 19:19-21 ¹⁹And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

²⁰And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. ²¹And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


3# He died before 70Ad. Anti-christ dies at the end of the tribulation. not 2/3rds of the way in. For verse, See 2#

You are absolutely right, that Nero Caesar did not do those things in his lifetime. Those events are yet in our future. John said that the beast he saw in the revelation of the end times was (he had lived before), was not (he was not alive at the time John was writing this), but will be again. And all the world will marvel that he was raised from the dead (many will likely believe he is Jesus because of this).

So, there's a few possibilities as I see it:
1) This man could literally be Nero Caesar brought back from the dead. God could permit the devil to do this, in order that His word come to pass. Honestly, I tend toward:
2) The same spirit of antichrist that possessed Nero will live in this man. Perhaps when John saw the vision of this man, he recognized the spirit which he'd seen in Nero, and that's why John called the beast Nero Caesar. I'm not sure.

I do know that I am prepared to stand against this man when the time comes. I have no reason to fear him or his world system, and I will not submit, even if I have to die. I definitely will not run and hide from him. And as I said, I will speak as publicly as possible what I believe to be true. Whatever the outcome, even if I'm completely wrong about it, even if it costs me my life.

I don't think he will die. I think he will be mortally wounded because Satan can't bring the dead back too life. If he could, He would of done it by now. Now,
I believe in the Pre-tribulation Rapture theory because it is the only one that is supported by the bible.(just my personal belief anyway.)

My dear brother,
"mortally wounded" means killed, dead. Satan could not do it without God's permission, and I was suggesting that it could happen that way if God says it will.

Secondly and more importantly, Joebob, is the issue of whether the church are "the saints" that the beast is given power to make war with for his 3 1/2 year reign. While I hope those who believe in pre-tribulation rapture are right, what if they're not? Won't the multitude of believers who have been taught they would not have to go through the purifying tribulation be devastated, maybe even be a "great falling away" as Jesus said would happen in the midst of greater tribulation than ever before (in Matthew 24), and that He will not return until these things occur?

Again, I say, I hope for rapture before the purifying tribulation of the saints, but I cannot find a convincing Scriptural basis for it. But if its true, praise God! And if the church are the saints that will be purified into the spotless bride by tribulation, then praise God! I would rather be prepared to go through it (that kind of sold-out commitment has to have already happened. It won't materialize suddenly in the heat of the moment, when faced with the choice of submitting to the beast or dying), than to believe I won't have to suffer the tribulation of the saints and then find out I do.

Historically, God has many times permitted persecution of His people (Israel and the Church), to divide the wheat (real value truly committed believers) from the chaff (those who say they believe, but when it comes down to it, they love this world and their own life more).

I thank God for you and this wonderful dialogue.
Peace to you