Jesus was not called "Mighty God" or "Eternal Father" until AFTER his death, resurrection, and return to heaven. As Phil. 2:9 says: "For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name."

The word God in !saiah 9:6 is this one..

H410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity): - God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might (-y one), power, strong. Compare names in “-el.”


Not the name of the most High God, LORD above all.

Psa 95:3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

H3068
יהוה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.

More astounding that one word in that chapter would trump the rest of the words in the entire chapter.

There is something in the Lexicon that is interesting..

Thayer in his Lexicon made this comment while interpreting the Greek of 1Jn 1:1c

"Joseph Henry Thayer, a theologian and scholar who worked on the American Standard Version, stated simply: "The Logos was divine, not the divine Being himself." Yes, whatever theological persuasion Thayer was, whether it was unitarian or trinitarian(or anything in between)this does not lessen him as a scholar who could understand the Greek of John 1:1c. In his day and even now, he is considered to be a respected scholar and theologian and it was for these reasons he was no doubt included on the translation team behind the American Standard Version. And it is for these reasons, namely, he being a well respected scholar, the Trinity brochure quoted him in its discussion of the meaning of the 3rd clause of John 1:1 where an anarthrous theos occurs sandwiched between two arthrous occurences of theos. This scholar could see that such a Greek construct in this context means that the theos in 1:1c makes the Word "divine" and not "God," not "the divine being himself" as many translations(such as the American Standard Version)erroneously translates. No wonder such persons as the writer we are quoting does not like it when a scholar supports a Jehovah's Witness understanding of a scripture. The writer of the web page that criticises so harshly the Trinity brochures' use of him is simply creating a 'red herring'!

found within this article..(sorry cant post links)..


Seems this red herring is still being used today against those who hold the same understanding as a respected theologeon.

Father God has many, many names. And you're arguments are convoluted. I am going to ask you a very simple question, Michelle: Are you a member of the Jehovah's Witness church?

God called Himself the First and the Last in both the Old Testament and the New Testament:

Isaiah 44:6
⁶ Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
“I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.


Revelation 1:12-18
¹² Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, ¹³ and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. ¹⁴ The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, ¹⁵ his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. ¹⁶ In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.


¹⁷ When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, ¹⁸ and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Green Berean..awesome post. I also like the "worthy" centurion's speech (at which Jesus "marvelled"),"Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed."

And why would the Son of God marvel or be surprised. Because the faith of this outsider was more logical and honorable than Israel after all the many gracious deliverences of the LORD. Is it possible that a Gentile could reverence the Word of God more than the Jews?


A post earlier said that a son does not carry our fathers name upon us...all humanity is called mankind (after the likeness of man; Adam. Or the nation of Israel, literally the decendants of Jacob later named Israel). How then is there any difference in the Son of God? To say that He is not God is to say He is not God's Son (for the fruit must be after the likeness of the seed sown). The spirtual likeness between the Father, who is Spirit, and the Son is perfect; wherein Jesus may well say He and the Father are one. But the very fact He refers to God as a seperate person to whom He is subject in word and deed proves a lineage within the trinity (which is why after all things are brought under Christ, so too Christ subjects Himself and all that is of Him and in Him unto the Father. 1 Cor 15:22-28). For Christ comes not in His own name, was "sent" by the Father (all consistant with the Example He sets to the church who is commissioned to testify and minister in His name), so also the Spirit comes because Jesus goes unto the Father, and will testify and glorify Christ.

Think of Christ, "the express image of His person," as a concave lens bringing into clarity the world vastly beyond our vision. The impossible things to know of God are made manifest in the flesh, that we may know them, having "handled" them ourselves. Through which God is made real to us, not as a figment of imagination, but made manifest before our very eyes. "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

You want to appeal to a human authority, this is more than problematic when searching for truth. All knowledge and wisdom are found only in one place: Jesus Christ.

Collosians 2:1-4
For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face,² thattheir hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ,³ in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

There comes the red herring. No I'm not JW, not Mormon, not unitarian, not anything other than a born again Christian who believes this..

I believe in God the Father Almighty maker of Heaven and Earth. And in His only begotten Son, our Lord. Who was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.
He suffered under Pontious Pilot, was crucified, died and buried. He decended into hell and trumped all principalities, and authorities. He rose again on the
third day. After 40 days of ministering in this earth, He ascended into heaven where He is sat at the right hand side of God, His Father who is The God of
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Anyone who would come to the Father must go through His Son, Jesus Christ, who is the price paid for sins. He is the only
righteousness. Any who believe on him will not perish, but have eternal life. This same Jesus, who is the Word of God read in Revelations, will come again
in Glory. After He has put all His enemies under His feet, He will offer the kingdom up to God is Father.

I worship my God above all gods. He is the only one who I am redeemed back to through my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who I praise and thank each day
for His sacrifice, His endurance of the cross while I was yet a sinner. I am saved by grace through faith, for there is no way this flesh could ever be good
enough for my God to look upon.

Originally Posted by Michelle71

There comes the red herring.

It appears you're denying the deity of Christ, and internet forums are a perfect place for someone to push lies about Jesus. So don't be indignant because I question your potential denominational leanings.

I've discerned a contentious spirit about you since you started posting weeks ago, and that hasn't changed. If you declare that Jesus was not God, you deny the deity of Christ. Wrap it up any way you like, it's antichrist.

Father God is one. He is the only one we should worship, Jesus declares as much. And yet, Jesus received worship from man. Imagine that! If Jesus wasn't God, why wouldn't He warn people to stop worshiping Him like the angel who warned John in the Book of Revelation? Or the apostles when the Greeks thought they were gods because of the power manifesting in their ministry? Or when Cornelius tried to worship Peter in Acts?

There is only one conclusion to draw: Jesus was God in flesh. Here are the prooftexts to back this up:

Matthew 4:10
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"

Matthew 2
11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.


Matthew 14
33 And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."


Matthew 28
9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.


17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.


Luke 24
52 And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,


John 9
38 He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

Matthew 2
2 saying, "Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him."

Hebrews 1
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

Revelation 22
3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

What more proof do you need than to hear Father God Himself call Jesus God!?

Hebrews 1:1-14
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, ² but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. ³ He is the radiance of the glory of God andthe exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, ⁴ having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
⁵ For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?

Or again,
“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?

⁶ And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God's angels worship him.”

⁷ Of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”

⁸ But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
⁹ You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

¹⁰ And,
“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
¹¹ they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
¹² like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.^[a]
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”

¹³ And to which of the angels has he ever said,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?

¹⁴ Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

No where has there been a denial of the deity of Christ. He has all the power of the Godhead. He is worthy to be praised and worshiped for God has given him all authority.

Now, for someone to be antichrist they have to deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, and is the Son of God. Anyone who would fail that test needs to be prayed for. The faith
that the apostles had are what every Christian needs to take a hard look at because the time is coming where a one world religion will be knocking on the door. This oneness
doctrine is leading many down the wrong path with the rod of fear that if anyone looks hard at their beliefs to make sure they are of the faith will end up riding at cult down the
river of fire into hell is not true.

Every single person who is redeemed is instructed to contend for the faith.

Jud 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Jud 1:2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Now, you can go down the road of thinking like the Buddhists if you want, but for me, I am going to confess what Mary confessed, and what Christ Himself said.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

When I stand before my Lord, I will know Him, and I will know His Father who sent Him. That is enough.