Register
Sign In
Join Community
Register (takes 30 seconds)
Check your email for verification
Join the community!
Our Purpose: to show you the love of Jesus Christ, His promises of Salvation & Blessings and to spread the Good News to the ends of the Earth [Mark 16:15]. We're also here to edify the church [Ephesians 4:11-12].

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24
Facebook Tweet StumbleUpon Digg Email Print Share Share Thisshare this
shares
  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Online
    08-28-12
    Posts
    10
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Undisclosed

    The Beast Revelation

    The Beast Revelation

    This letter is dedicated to all Christians.

    The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.

    The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.

    This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.

    Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you will have eliminated some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet, which is misleading and puts a stumbling block square in the road to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.

    Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to recieve a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.

    Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.

    Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. This is when the number 666 identified an individual. The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Govenment. Hamas did not recieve salaries. Also, Hamas did not recieve the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.
    It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.

    In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.

    Now, concerning the the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ishmail Haniyeh.

    Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men".
    Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.


    Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.

    The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similtude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistant with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching offtrack for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.

    May God bless all who read this letter.

    Michae1
    Last edited by michael777; 07-14-11 at 06:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Member cman77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Online
    04-22-12
    Posts
    135
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Undisclosed
    I am one of those nuts that thinks that we are past the millennial reign and during the time when Satan is loosed on the earth. Which means that Christ could come at anytime.
    I did not choose God, God chose me

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Online
    09-11-12
    Posts
    32
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    United States

    response

    two long to comprehend what is the crux of your statement?

  4. #4
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Online
    08-28-12
    Posts
    10
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Undisclosed
    For those who are watching, the blindness is about to end.

    Michael777

  5. #5
    Senior Member brakelite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Online
    05-21-13
    Posts
    612
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    New Zealand
    Location
    Waikato
    Age
    60
    Michael, I was once where you are now. Standing at the gate watching the end of the street for the Antichrist to appear and come down the road slaughtering Christians left right and centre.
    I have since discovered he is already in residence right next door, and was there before I was even thought of.
    You really do need to free yourself from your 'futurist' (an invention of Antichrist to divert attention away from himself) mindset. The threat you are looking to the horizon for is behind you and is about to run you over.
    Kia noho nui te kupu a te Karaiti i roto i a koutou i runga i te matauranga katoa....Coll. 3:16

  6. #6
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Online
    08-28-12
    Posts
    10
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by brakelite View Post
    Michael, I was once where you are now. Standing at the gate watching the end of the street for the Antichrist to appear and come down the road slaughtering Christians left right and centre.
    I have since discovered he is already in residence right next door, and was there before I was even thought of.
    You really do need to free yourself from your 'futurist' (an invention of Antichrist to divert attention away from himself) mindset. The threat you are looking to the horizon for is behind you and is about to run you over.
    Speak for yourself. My writings are not about being scared or worried, they are the truth. If you are content with your theology, which I disagree with, by all means continue. There are lots of beliefs which center around Christianity, and I don't believe them all. I disagree completely with preterism. Actually, when I first heard it, I thought it was a joke, until I realized the people were serious. Michael

  7. #7
    Senior Member brakelite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Online
    05-21-13
    Posts
    612
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    New Zealand
    Location
    Waikato
    Age
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by michael777 View Post
    Speak for yourself. My writings are not about being scared or worried, they are the truth. If you are content with your theology, which I disagree with, by all means continue. There are lots of beliefs which center around Christianity, and I don't believe them all. I disagree completely with preterism. Actually, when I first heard it, I thought it was a joke, until I realized the people were serious. Michael
    I am no preterist either. I follow the same methodology as the early church fathers and the reformers, that is historicism. Might I suggest you take a look at the thread :Were they right?" As you read through that thread, don't miss the point that it isn't about a 'revived Roman empire' but rather a continuation of the Roman Empire...an empire that has never gone away since its inception, it merely has changed its form, from pagan to counterfeit Christianity. Like the statue in Daniel 2, there is no gap between the fourth metal that represents Rome, and the second coming. And the little horn that grows out of the 10 horns before it, it also was still alive and well at the second coming. More on that however on the other thread, You are welcome to comment there.

    If what you propose in your post is the truth, then it must comply with every single aspect of prophecy, without exception. If it deviates in just one small point, it isn't the fulfillment of the prophecy.
    Kia noho nui te kupu a te Karaiti i roto i a koutou i runga i te matauranga katoa....Coll. 3:16

  8. #8
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    02-17-12
    Posts
    14
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Canada
    "I follow the same methodology as the early church fathers and the reformers, that is historicism."

    Don't know who you're reading that told you the early church believed this theory, but they did not. You can always find a scholar somewhere who will tell you what you want to hear, which you clearly have found.

    The early church recognized this as prophecy, which anyone can see. It does contain elements of symbolism but it also contains many rock solid objective statements too.

    Jesus often taught in parables, but in Matthew 24 He was obviously telling them of "things to come," which He said outright. Jesus was not a historist, as evidenced by His statement to look for these things, clearly referring to future events.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Eric E Stahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    05-20-13
    Posts
    571
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    United States
    Location
    Kreamer Pa.

    The Beast from the Sea Rev 13:1

    Copied from America's Last Warning by Eric E Stahl

    Revelation 13:1
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. Bible">KJV

    AT THE TIME of the tribulation period, the revived Roman Empire will again emerge as a dominant world power. It will be an alliance of ten kings or dictators and their kingdoms. Their common denominator will be the apostate Christian church, or what is left of the church after the rapture of the born-again Christians. This ecumenical church will be centered in the city of Rome on seven mountains. In the Scriptures, God calls the apostate church “harlot Babylon” because harlot Babylon takes the place of the proper church as a harlot takes the place of a wife.
    Daniel saw in a vision of the future that four world empires would come to power over a period of thousands of years. The Babylonian Empire of his time was the first of the four. In Daniel 7:7, he describes the last empire, which is evolving in our time. The new Roman Empire will morph into ten separate areas and leaders as indicated by Daniel’s fourth beast having ten horns and ten crowns. We call the Western part of the alliance the European Union.

    Daniel 7:7–8 Bible">KJV
    7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;
    and it had ten horns.
    8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    When we come to the end of time before Jesus comes to take owner- ship of the earth, an eleventh horn, (nation) will come from the ten horns. It is a colony or offspring of the Roman Empire people. The Antichrist, who speaks very persuasively, will come to power in this young country, or little horn. The Antichrist will not come from Europe, which is the original western part of the original ten horns (kingdoms). The Antichrist will not come from the Middle Eastern or the North African parts of the former Roman Empire either, because he will not come from one of the ten areas of the revived Roman Empire.

  10. #10
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Online
    08-28-12
    Posts
    10
    Gender
    Male
    Country
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric E Stahl View Post
    Copied from America's Last Warning by Eric E Stahl

    Revelation 13:1
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. Bible">KJV

    AT THE TIME of the tribulation period, the revived Roman Empire will again emerge as a dominant world power. It will be an alliance of ten kings or dictators and their kingdoms. Their common denominator will be the apostate Christian church, or what is left of the church after the rapture of the born-again Christians. This ecumenical church will be centered in the city of Rome on seven mountains. In the Scriptures, God calls the apostate church “harlot Babylon” because harlot Babylon takes the place of the proper church as a harlot takes the place of a wife.
    Daniel saw in a vision of the future that four world empires would come to power over a period of thousands of years. The Babylonian Empire of his time was the first of the four. In Daniel 7:7, he describes the last empire, which is evolving in our time. The new Roman Empire will morph into ten separate areas and leaders as indicated by Daniel’s fourth beast having ten horns and ten crowns. We call the Western part of the alliance the European Union.

    Daniel 7:7–8 Bible">KJV
    7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;
    and it had ten horns.
    8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    When we come to the end of time before Jesus comes to take owner- ship of the earth, an eleventh horn, (nation) will come from the ten horns. It is a colony or offspring of the Roman Empire people. The Antichrist, who speaks very persuasively, will come to power in this young country, or little horn. The Antichrist will not come from Europe, which is the original western part of the original ten horns (kingdoms). The Antichrist will not come from the Middle Eastern or the North African parts of the former Roman Empire either, because he will not come from one of the ten areas of the revived Roman Empire.

    You have done everything right, except one thing. You forgot to Watch. You've interpreted and read, but it means nothing if you can't see. Watching and interpreting go hand-in-hand. They cannot be separated. Once separated, you have your interpretation. I promise you it will not happen as you say. Michael

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Mans Revelation or Jesus Revelation
    By ushalk in forum Bible Study Hall
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-03-12, 08:01 PM
  2. Who Or What Is The Second Beast of Rev 13?
    By canada in forum Evidence & Bible Prophecy
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 09-01-12, 08:29 PM
  3. Mark of the Beast
    By Chad in forum Scriptural Answers
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 12-29-08, 12:24 PM
  4. Mark of the beast
    By Trishann in forum Bible Study Hall
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-15-08, 11:39 PM
  5. Beast Within
    By pottersclay in forum Poetry
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-13-07, 12:39 AM

Thread Participants: 6

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us

Welcome to Talk Jesus Forums! If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. You will need to register before you can post. Our Purpose: spread the Good News to the ends of the Earth [Mark 16:15]. We're also here to edify the church [Ephesians 4:11-12]. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. We love you and glad you are here!

 

ask & you shall receive...

Please feel comfortable and ask your questions freely in the appropriate forum. As a community, we will help you find the answers about Jesus / GOD, Bible, general life questions and so forth. We're here to support you and each other.

 

faq forum etiquette surprise me! the evidence topical studies
let's socialize
Today's Verse
Facebook Tweet StumbleUpon Digg Email Print Share Share Thisshare this
shares