Originally Posted by Rog

There are many in our government that plan to do just that. Neo-Cons have seized upon this ideology, and wish to hasten Christs return.

Revelation 6:1-2
1.Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, "Come and see."
2.And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.









Revelation 17:10-11
10.There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
11."And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

One of the seven kings, is also the eighth king. The eighth king will have ruled before as one of the seven. Meaning, one of the seven kings will return to rule again. When the anti-christs mortal wound is healed, he will rise as the eighth king.



Revelation 17:12
12."The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.

The Bible tells us they are ten kings that have no kingdom yet. This would suggest they are ten people. Though I do believe they will rise from the EU, it is not ten nations.

The anti-christ will be an individual.


Praise the Lord of Glory,
Rog

Revelation 17:5 talks about how one world religion is coming to play.

Roman Catholics who is the mother of harlots , meaning that she had daughter pertaining to protestants because they were split with catholics in 15th century.

Originally Posted by mikemattice

Okay, here's what I believe:
I am a "pre-wrath rapture" believer. I am prepared to suffer the Tribulation of the saints in my lifetime. Since we are talking about interpretation of prophesies that have not been fulfilled yet, I could be wrong. But, I would rather be prepared to go through it and be wrong (be raptured before any of it happens), than to believe I am not going to suffer the tribulation and find out that I'm wrong. Believe me, those who are not spiritually-prepared to persevere, even unto and including death, will be deceived and falter.

Also, consider what Jesus said about that time in Matthew 24. One of the symptoms (or signs, if you will) will be "a great falling away". This is specifically a reference to the Body of Christ. He says that many will be weak in their faith and turn away at that time. When the sifting begins in the house of God, as I've said, many who are not sold-out to the Lord will compromise, and dismiss their professed faith (having a form of godlinesss, but denying the power [or relevance]). But, something else even more disruptive could cause THE GREAT FALLING AWAY! For the last about 130 years (when pre-tribulation rapture teaching really started growing within Christianity), MILLIONS of brethren have firmly believed and taught that the church will not be present for the Tribulation of the Saints period. What would happen to the faith of these if suddenly, they were wrong? I'll suggest a result, see if it is reasonable: Many would feel that their churches had lied to them. If they couldn't trust their pastors/ leaders to tell them the truth about this, how could they be trusted for anything they said? They would walk away from Christianity. Then there would be those who are devastated, believing that they just didn't make the rapture, and were abandoned by God to suffer in this world. What would they do? I'll bet you can guess that answer.

Although I have studied the Bible for years, I don't claim to know all the answers. But, I hang staunchly to what little bits of understanding God has given to me. I write what I believe the Lord has taught me. On the matter of "the Rapture", I do not expect it to occur when most people think it will. Jesus said the timing for it wasn't even up to Him. Only the Father knows when. I know it will happen. I hope I'll be included. I am prepared for the purifying fire of tribulation, even unto my death (but I also have some understanding God has shown me about living through it, but that's for a different post).

Please forgive my lengthy post. I wanted to clearly communicate the different interpretations people have of the prophesies. God bless you all as you study His living Word! - Selah (think about it)

excellent! i like that!!!

to the rest

I dont' know how to explain what all I see using the scriptures quite yet. but from the time I was 16 I have had dreams of these things. trying to understand/interpret what I saw is quite interesting and a life long adventure.
what I know for sure is we are all in for some huge surprises.
I have only told my family these things so .. I dont' even know how to express them to others .. so everyone be patient with this.
ok so what if Ezekiels temple shows up mid trib? and what if we go there to that temple , to maybe "Make ourselves ready" or sort of ... would that be veiwed as a rapture? we will not be meeting him in the sky.. we are just translating to the temple to ready something .. then what is the potential of prophesy being played out in that temple and it being confused with a rapture to "heaven"?
so then the question is who shows up at that temple?
what if the mid trib point is where man has destroyed the world and his reign and rights have ended. God takes the reins and begins to clean house.. isn't that Mid point where the father takes control and judges the world, he judges the others with the help of the 144000 .but his attention is on the world . jesus say clearly to his disciples it is not him till He comes at the end with fire and a sword.

so what happens if it appears to us as if we go to "heaven" and it isn't really heaven but to the EZ.'s temple ... because I have been to Ezekial temple when i was 16 in a dream and I know it was on earth shouded in a cloud and I know it wasn't over yet..
and it was not over yet!
will his people know it isn't Him if it play out that way? knowing the real him doesn't show up till the end?
oh yes that is just one of the potential big surprises I'm afraid..

what is the enemy doing during that time his people are being judged?
what is it that jesus says goes is on in that/a temple during the tribulation? it is there in REV and daniel .
i can come close to explaining this in scriptures . but not without a lot of explanation from my dreams. and I can't do that to folks as you sure don't know me. I can only encourage you to find it yourself. and who am I to stand in the way of the lord when it comes to your discovering him in these ways. we serve the greatest God !
but mostly I doubt that anyone will believe it, because who am I really..
mostly all I can say is if you hear someone in the back of the court screaming " it isn't HIM" well that would be me. and really it isn't Him! but you sure wouldn't know that, if you haven't studied the scrptured while being lead by his spirit .


and no I do NOT feel like I have TO FIX IT for everyone either and tell all, like how i saw it from the stars from the sky or the condition of the earth at that time. NO dont' or won't have any blood on my hands and such.. Nope...Not since we are to have his spirit in us.
Paul says everyone should prophesy for just these reasons. because of his spirit in each man is now responsible for their own state of affairs and if they have truly submitted their life and if they have "study to show thyself approved "or not this last trail puts proof in the puddin .
the scripture says he will give all we need of his spirit and wisdom if we knock and keep knocking. so no it is not olden days and I do not have to reveal the mysteries or their explanations he has given me.
but I will pray he shows them to you also. you all have to pray that too of course .
I can tell you , ask him and he will show you what he wants you to know .. I don't think he wants us in the dark and that is why paul asks us all to seek to prophesy .I know he does NOT want us to stress worry or fret about it either but to be steady and working to do his will now, his will is that we study. He will tell you and you might be able see it coming , then you will stress a lot less ? if I can see it coming I don't stresses because I know he got there before me. so ask him to reveal it he will.
if you haven't studied the whole bible following the spirit's lead ,you need too.
god bless you !
nae

I have some issues with what people say regarding our Lords return.

First there is going to be a silent rapture? what the bible describes sound like the noisiest even ever on Earth?

Some will be taken before the tribulation? The Word of God and Jesus clearly states the when he comes it's the last day.

All these theories that some preachers proclaim to be truth is verses out of context, and ignoring or down playing others.

I get a feeling that our preachers are lying or is preaching but not God inspired.

Seems to me that one of the last days prophecies is being ignored here, the one about false prophets (I assume preachers too) deceiving even the elect/saints?

Originally Posted by Kotwebck

I have some issues with what people say regarding our Lords return.

First there is going to be a silent rapture? what the bible describes sound like the noisiest even ever on Earth?

Some will be taken before the tribulation? The Word of God and Jesus clearly states the when he comes it's the last day.

All these theories that some preachers proclaim to be truth is verses out of context, and ignoring or down playing others.

I get a feeling that our preachers are lying or is preaching but not God inspired.

Seems to me that one of the last days prophecies is being ignored here, the one about false prophets (I assume preachers too) deceiving even the elect/saints?

Kotwebck,


When Jesus comes for us in the air at the time of the rapture of the church age believers he will shine like the sun. The world will see his light but not know what is happening. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17


2 Timothy 4:1
¹ I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


Revelation 1:16-18
¹⁶ And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
¹⁷ And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
¹⁸ I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

I don't know about "silent", but I do think it will be unexpected for most everyone.

Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mat 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Mat 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mat 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Mat 24:41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Mat 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Mat 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

If this happens as "the final event". Then why are some left alive? Why is only one man taken from the field? Why only one woman from the mill?
Maybe this is the people who are believers before the tribulation?

1 Thes 5:2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1 Thes 5:3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1 Thes 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;

Rev 3:3

As for some being taken before the tribulation. The thought is, after the tribulation, people will be expecting it.

So some take this as a discrepancy to....

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

But this isn't necessarily true. It could be talking about all the people who died during the tribulation (after the rapture as the case may be) which still sounds like a fairly substantial number, a third to a half of mankind at least. Possibly 3 or 4 billion people. Even if the rest of the believers were taken up before the tribulation. Notice verse 5 say "the FIRST resurrection", so is this ONLY those beheaded during the tribulation who "came to life" in verse 4?

BAC

There are Five Phases of the First Resurrection




Jesus came to earth, lived as a man, died for our sins rose from the dead went back to heaven and took captivity captive and gave gifts unto men the first time.
(1) Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven at His ascension. Prophecy Psalms 68:18 KJV, fulfillment of prophecy Ephesians 4:8 KJV

Jesus will come the second time to the atmosphere of the earth and catch up the church age believers.
(2) The Holy Spirit and the church age saints are caught up to heaven before the antichrist is given power in the Christian nations. 2Thessalonians 2:3-12, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 also see John16:7-8 KJV which explains that the Comforter or Holy Spirit will reprove sin in the world when He comes into the church.

Jesus will come to earth the third time at the middle of the tribulation when the antichrist calls all the armies of the world to attack Israel see Zechariah 14:1-4 and Isaiah 16:1-5 and Revelation 12:14-17. The antichrist will control Jerusalem for the last half of the tribulation Revelation11:1-2.
(3)The mid tribulation catching up will include the two witnesses Revelation11:3,7-14 KJV,
the 144,000 sealed Jews from Revelation chapter 7 who where redeemed from the earth. See Revelation 14:1-4, and the
redeemed dead saints from the first half of the Tribulation. Revelation 15:1-4KJV

Jesus will come to earth the 4th time at the end of the tribulation with the army of heaven Revelation 19:11-21 He will revive the dead saints from the last half of the tribulation at that time.
(4) The dead saints from the last half of the tribulation are redeemed from the earth after the tribulation. Revelation 20:4KJV

(5) The dead saints from the Kingdom age will be judged at the great white throne judgment along with the second resurrection sinners. Revelation 20:11-15KJV

Originally Posted by Eric E Stahl

(4) The dead saints from the last half of the tribulation are redeemed from the earth after the tribulation. Revelation 20:4KJV

Hmmm... you could be right. I haven't really looked at point 3 above that way. More study is needed here :-)
But obviously we agree on points 2 and 5 and even point 4. I have read this over literally dozens of times, and I don't see how point 4 could be any other way.

My big issue with including point 1 (yes, I agree this happened) as part of the "first resurrection", is because I believe this already happened 2000 years ago.

Originally Posted by B-A-C

Hmmm... you could be right. I haven't really looked at point 3 above that way. More study is needed here :-)
But obviously we agree on points 2 and 5 and even point 4. I have read this over literally dozens of times, and I don't see how point 4 could be any other way.

My big issue with including point 1 (yes, I agree this happened) as part of the "first resurrection", is because I believe this already happened 2000 years ago.

BAC,

1 Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
²¹ For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
²² For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
²³ But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits (1st phase); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (2nd phase).