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  1. #11
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    As you can probably see from the thread I am trying to find out when the rapture will take place, pre, mid or post tribulation.
    At this moment I am convinced the rapture will take place pre-tribulation, before the revealing of the antichrist.
    I have this conviction because the Lord promised to deliver us from the hour of trial.

    Revelation 3:10
    10'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

    And 1 Thessalonians 5:9
    9For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    I use the nasb, please read your preferred Bible.
    I am praying about this, and asking God to give me direction. If I believe in pre-tribulation rapture that means the Lord will come with a loud shout and the second coming will take place after the revealing of the antichrist.

    I know confusion does not come from God, but I am confused.

  2. #12
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    Teraside, I agree with you that the rapture will take place before the Tribulation, that the church will be taken out before then. I do not believe, from scriptures that I have given you before, that we will go through the Tribulation. :love:
    Jesus is Lord.

  3. #13
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    Will the rapture take place at the second comming? :star: (Are there two second comings?) If it does, we are looking at a Post-trib rapture.
    Jesus said he would return after the tribulation of those days according to Matthew 24-29 to 30.
    .


    Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    The above scripture says Christ will return after the tribulation to gather the elect with the sound of a trumpet, by angels..

    So the question is, are we changed at his comming, and do the dead rise first? If we say yes then the rapture is Post-Trib (Matthew 24-29 to 31)....if we say no then we have a contradiction of the word.. and we know the scriptures don't contradic themselves. I have a small study on this brother teraside... i might post it again sometime. But we have to be open minded and not bias to any of these interpretations. Also we must let the scriptures interpret the scriptures, or we end up with our own ideas... and not Gods word. Gods word must take presidence over our beliefs.
    God bless
    Last edited by Fellowservant; 05-11-06 at 11:38 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fellowservant
    Gods word must take presidence over our beliefs.
    God bless
    Absolutely brother.

    The saints are commanded to watch. They are not commanded to watch for the Tribulation, but for the blessed hope, which is the Rapture.

    It is written, WHEREFORE COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS-1 Thes 4:18. If we were watching for the horrible Tribulation period, we would not be comforted. We would be terrified. This Scripture could not be fulfilled, if the saints were to go into the Tribulation period.

    It is written, AND WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO COME TO PASS, THEN LOOK UP, AND LIFT UP YOUR HEADS; FOR YOUR REDEMPTION (or your being caught up) DRAWETH NIGH-Lk 21:28. In Luke chapter 21, events of the Tribulation are described. Verse 28 shows that when these events begin to happen, after Israel’s rebirth, then we are to know that the Rapture is about to happen. Note, it did not say, when they "have" happened, but when they "begin" to happen. They begin to happen as birth pangs of a woman about to have a child. Again, if a person was going to go through the Tribulation, the wording of this verse would be inaccurate.

    Ten times in the Revelation the word "wrath" is mentioned as pertaining to the Tribulation. It is written, WRATH OF THE LAMB-Rev 6:16; THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME-Rev 6:17; AND THY WRATH IS COME-Rev 11:18; THE SAME SHALL DRINK OF THE WINE OF THE WRATH OF GOD-Rev 14:10; OF THE WRATH OF GOD-Rev 14:19; IN THEM IS FILLED UP THE WRATH OF GOD-Rev 15:1; WRATH OF GOD-Rev 15:7; POUR OUT THE VIALS OF THE WRATH OF GOD UPON THE EARTH-Rev 16:1; FIERCENESS OF HIS WRATH-Rev 16:19; FIERCENESS AND WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD-Rev 19:15.
    Now, we read, FOR GOD HATH NOT APPOINTED US (the saints) TO WRATH-1 Thes 5:9. The verse concludes by saying, BUT TO OBTAIN SALVATION BY OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. These verses are unmistakably clear. If a person belongs to Jesus, they will not see the wrath of God. Many times in the Scriptures the term, "the wrath of God," is applied to the Tribulation.
    It is written, EVEN JESUS, WHICH DELIVERED US FROM THE WRATH TO COME (which is the Tribulation)-1 Thes 1:10. What is the "wrath to come?" The Bible has just told us ten times about the wrath of God in the Tribulation. It is also written, THEREFORE BEING JUSTIFIED BY FAITH, WE HAVE PEACE WITH GOD THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. MUCH MORE THEN, BEING NOW JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, WE SHALL BE SAVED FROM WRATH THROUGH HIM-Ro 5:1,9. Further, it is written, AND HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE; BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM-Jn 3:36. The Scriptures are very clear. The Tribulation is a time of God’s wrath. The saints will be delivered from the wrath to come.

    http://www.amazingbible.org/Document...0THE%20RAPTURE
    Jesus is Lord.

  5. #15
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    Tribulation is not Gods wrath sister...we are told in the word we will have tribulation. God says we are not appointed to his wrath. God does not tell us we will not have tribulation, in fact it says otherwise.


    Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


    sunshine307: The saints are commanded to watch. They are not commanded to watch for the Tribulation, but for the blessed hope, which is the Rapture.

    Actually they are told to watch for the signs of his comming as well (ie the abomination of desolation that Daniel spoke of. And to watch and pray that they will be worthy to escape all that is to happen, and stand before the son of man. They are also told to endure to the end. If they were to go through nothing, then why tell them to endure to the end...Mat 24:13


    Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
    Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.




    sunshine307: It is written, WHEREFORE COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS-1 Thes 4:18. If we were watching for the horrible Tribulation period, we would not be comforted. We would be terrified. This Scripture could not be fulfilled, if the saints were to go into the Tribulation period.

    The above quote sister is out of context...it has nothing to do with tribulation.

    We must read the scriptures in their context...



    lets look at comfort one another with these words. Paul was saying here that some were worrying about their dead loved ones, and wanted them to have a hope of a resurrection. So he said dont worry... God will resurrect them when the time come's


    1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.



    Yes the return of Christ will be a grorious event, but not till it comes. And Paul says it will not come, till there is a falling away first, and the man of sin is revealed, as i already posted.
    God bless

  6. #16
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    Brother I'm not here to argue, and I'm not taking anything out of context. If you think what we are going through now is tribulation we're getting away very lightly.
    Last edited by sunshine307; 05-13-06 at 02:17 AM.
    Jesus is Lord.

  7. #17
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    Article from gotquestions.org

    Question “When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?”

    Answer: The timing of the Rapture in relation to the Tribulation is one of the most controversial issues in the church today. The three primary views are Pretribulational (the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation), Midtribulational (the Rapture occurs at the mid-point of the Tribulation), and Posttribulational (the Rapture occurs at the end of the Tribulation). A 4th view, commonly known as Pre-wrath, is a slight modification of the Midtribulational position.

    First, it is important to recognize the purpose of the Tribulation. According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth “week” (7 years) that is still yet to come. Daniel’s entire prophecy of the seventy weeks (Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth week, the Tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time.

    The primary Scripture passage on the Rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The Rapture is God removing His people from the earth. A few verses later in 5:9 Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The Book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the Tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the Tribulation. It would seem inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth during the Tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.

    Another crucial passage on the timing of the Rapture is Revelation 3:10. There, Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things: (1) Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or (2) Christ will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept “from.” It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the Tribulation. The purpose of the Tribulation, the purpose of the Rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the Pretribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the Pretribulational position is the most Biblically consistent interpretation.

  8. #18
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    Chad... The purpose of the Tribulation, the purpose of the Rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the Pretribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the [U]Pretribulational position is the most Biblically consistent interpretation.

    First.. not all things are to be interpreted literally, the book of revelation is full of non literally interpretations. Those beast from the book of revelation are not literal beast...


    I disagree with the above quote.. there is more support for a Post-Trib rapture right from the mouth of Christ himself, unless he shortens the days for the elects sake (and we have to find out where he will shorten those days), it will be a Post-Trib Rapture as Christ said in Matthew 24, or should i say resurrection.



    Matthew 24.. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



    The word Rapture is not even in the Bible, (but the word Caught Up is though, same meaning.. Revelation Chapter 12) According to the way Pre-Trib was first thought, the rapture is the resurrection .. Im not even a Post-Trib teacher, im Pre-Trib.. but not the way it has been taught all this time.

    And if it is Post-Trib, ill take the attitude of the three well known holy saints of God from the Old Testament... who said to a King, God is able to deliver us, but if he does not... we still will not bow to your Idol, and we know what happend after that. All the articles in the world from the internet wont change what Christ said in Matthew 24.. 29 to 31 unless he shortens those days. Sorry we dont agree here brother.. but i have to go by the words of Christ, and seek a better undertanding of this.

    God bless

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine307
    Brother I'm not here to argue, and I'm not taking anything out of context. If you think what we are going through now is tribulation we're getting away very lightly.
    Im not here to argue either... whos argueing? im here to help and teach as much as possible, as God leads. As far as not haveing much tribulation sister we in the western world are not haveing much, but go to the third world countrys and preach the gospel, and you will have a change of mind, if you go to the right place.

    God bless

  10. #20
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    I think those who have not signed up for the free newsletter / mailings from Gospel for Asia (GFA), please do so. You will read about the 3rd world countries that are facing their consequences (if I may say it that way bluntly). America is not left out (earthquakes, hurricanes, 9/11, droughts, floods, etc). America is simply put, spoiled but we'll know eventually the wrath of GOD.

    Remember, whoever is going through tribulation now or not yet, the entire world will pass away

    Matthew 24:34
    I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

    Mark 13:30
    I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

    Luke 21:32
    "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

    Let's remember this one thing before we try to figure out the tribulation / rapture / etc...

    GOD WANTS ALL TO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AND --NOT PERISH!--

    That is the main focus today isn't it? Yes, indeed. Scripture says so. Its the main focus of the Holy Bible after all.

    John 3:16
    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Let's reach out to the lost instead of trying to deciper things that *ultimately* only the Father in Heaven knows of...the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. When He returns, do we want to be caught in sin or yet, in quarrels about certain topics as this?

    Note: forgive me if I missed out on some points. I'm at a cafe now multi-tasking like a crazy man :D

    God bless.

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