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  1. #21
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    Originally Posted by Faith4Bride View Post
    ,Universalism is an emotion based theology.

    The amount of scriptures that confirm that not all will be saved is amazing when studied.

    Universalism always rests on a couple verses, devoid of the rest of scripture which then are twisted to mean what the emotion wants because the rest of scripture is not relied upon to interpret them.

    These arguements always come with judgements against God and are emotionally driven.
    "what kinda God would do that" " i wouldnt serve a God like that" etc...

    Jesus in one chapter clearly gives us three witnesses that prove everyone will not be saved.

    Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:


    Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


    Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:


    Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


    Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:


    Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


    It is clear that their worm will not die, and their fire will NEVER BE QUENCHED.
    Dear Faith4Bride,
    You have a mistaken belief that the First fruits (which is the church) will be the only fruits of the harvest. God will not let His fall harvest rot in the field. Have you never studied the feasts of the Old Testament and what they foreshadow? The scriptures you list are referring to the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. Christ is not speaking of the hell from church tradition. Plus, He is not being literal. He is saying that it is better to believe now than later. Later will be a much more trying experience to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

    My understanding of scripture comes from scripture, not from my emotions. Plus, I have never studied "universalism" has you call it. My faith is based on scripture and not a prepackaged belief system. Try and find scriptures that support you Christian hell, not a garbage dump. I have studied and studied and there are none. The scripture you will probably use are badly mistranslated or meant not to be taken literally. There are no exceptions. Please read the triple witness of scripture that I just posted to RJ and respond to them. Why will you not accept them? Do you not believe they are God's Word?

    May the Lord bless you in your studies,
    Joe in Arkansas

  2. #22
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    Just some thoughts:
    A simple reading of these 2 verses show the flaw in that Universalsit doctrine:
    2Th 1:8 InG1722 flamingG5395 fireG4442 takingG1325 vengeanceG1557 on them that knowG1492 notG3361 God,G2316 andG2532 that obeyG5219 notG3361 theG3588 gospelG2098 of ourG2257 LordG2962 JesusG2424 Christ:G5547
    2Th 1:9 WhoG3748 shall be punishedG5099 G1349 with everlastingG166 destructionG3639 fromG575 the presenceG4383 of theG3588 Lord,G2962 andG2532 fromG575 theG3588 gloryG1391 of hisG846 power;G2479

    If everyone is predestined for salvation no matter how they live what was the purpose of Jesus sacrifice? Shouldn't they just live like the devil and do what they want? This also precludes the need for preaching the Gospel as all will wind up saved anyway. This revelation will certainly save a lot of money on missionaries- LOL! Just kidding.
    In Judas case it would have been better if he had never been born (Mat 26:24)- that does not sound like someone who will be redeemed.
    Then of course you are left with a big issue- what about the unpardonable sin ( Mat 12:3132,Heb 6:4 -6)? If what yo believe is true they will be saved anyway and yet remain unforgiven. Do you believe unforgiven sin can stand in the presence of a holy God?

    If one agreed that eternal life was but for an age (based of your view of the word eternal) then our salvation is limited.
    The word used in the sciptures for eternal is AIONIOS and not AION

    From the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

    G166
    αἰώνιος
    aiōnios
    ahee-o'-nee-os
    From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


    Even if I used your "translation" or substitution here I would have to believe that the Holy Spirit is only for an age:
    Heb 9:14 How muchG4214 moreG3123 shall theG3588 bloodG129 of Christ,G5547 whoG3739 throughG1223 the eternalG166 SpiritG4151 offeredG4374 himselfG1438 without spotG299 to God,G2316 purgeG2511 yourG5216 conscienceG4893 fromG575 deadG3498 worksG2041 to serveG3000 the livingG2198 God?G2316

    Mat 25:46 AndG2532 theseG3778 shall go awayG565 intoG1519 everlastingG166 punishment:G2851 butG1161 theG3588 righteousG1342 intoG1519 lifeG2222 eternal.G166
    Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

  3. #23
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    Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
    Just some thoughts:
    A simple reading of these 2 verses show the flaw in that Universalsit doctrine:
    2Th 1:8 InG1722 flamingG5395 fireG4442 takingG1325 vengeanceG1557 on them that knowG1492 notG3361 God,G2316 andG2532 that obeyG5219 notG3361 theG3588 gospelG2098 of ourG2257 LordG2962 JesusG2424 Christ:G5547
    2Th 1:9 WhoG3748 shall be punishedG5099 G1349 with everlastingG166 destructionG3639 fromG575 the presenceG4383 of theG3588 Lord,G2962 andG2532 fromG575 theG3588 gloryG1391 of hisG846 power;G2479

    If everyone is predestined for salvation no matter how they live what was the purpose of Jesus sacrifice? Shouldn't they just live like the devil and do what they want? This also precludes the need for preaching the Gospel as all will wind up saved anyway. This revelation will certainly save a lot of money on missionaries- LOL! Just kidding.
    In Judas case it would have been better if he had never been born (Mat 26:24)- that does not sound like someone who will be redeemed.
    Then of course you are left with a big issue- what about the unpardonable sin ( Mat 12:3132,Heb 6:4 -6)? If what yo believe is true they will be saved anyway and yet remain unforgiven. Do you believe unforgiven sin can stand in the presence of a holy God?

    If one agreed that eternal life was but for an age (based of your view of the word eternal) then our salvation is limited.
    The word used in the sciptures for eternal is AIONIOS and not AION

    From the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

    G166
    αἰώνιος
    aiōnios
    ahee-o'-nee-os
    From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


    Even if I used your "translation" or substitution here I would have to believe that the Holy Spirit is only for an age:
    Heb 9:14 How muchG4214 moreG3123 shall theG3588 bloodG129 of Christ,G5547 whoG3739 throughG1223 the eternalG166 SpiritG4151 offeredG4374 himselfG1438 without spotG299 to God,G2316 purgeG2511 yourG5216 conscienceG4893 fromG575 deadG3498 worksG2041 to serveG3000 the livingG2198 God?G2316

    Mat 25:46 AndG2532 theseG3778 shall go awayG565 intoG1519 everlastingG166 punishment:G2851 butG1161 theG3588 righteousG1342 intoG1519 lifeG2222 eternal.G166
    Dear Boanerges,
    You are right that I would say that aion or it's adjective form aionios means age or age-enduring. During the time of the writing of the scriptures there was no word that meant eternal or everlasting in the Greek language. That definition was added to aion at a much later date to help support the eternal hell doctrine. The word aion clearly means age if you would give it an objective study and its adjective form aionios cannot contradict that meaning. An age has a beginning and an end - it can never mean eternal or everlasting. There is no conflict with saying that we will have aionion life (life during the ages) or that the Holy Spirit is aionion. This does not mean that our life or the Holy Spirit ends at the completion of the ages. We will be given immortality that will continue on past the ages. I can see you went to a great deal of work to break the scripture out into the Greek but it means nothing since the definition meaning "everlasting" was never the original intent of the word. One thing I have learned, is that the translations of the scripture are full on bad translations, errors and in some cases, out right fraud. As Paul commanded Timothy, one must study and that means going back to the Greek and the original meanings.

    You said:
    If everyone is predestined for salvation no matter how they live what was the purpose of Jesus sacrifice? Shouldn't they just live like the devil and do what they want? This also precludes the need for preaching the Gospel as all will wind up saved anyway. This revelation will certainly save a lot of money on missionaries- LOL! Just kidding.

    I have heard this line of reasoning many times before and I am always amazed by it. No one is saved "anyway". There is only one way to be saved and that is through Jesus Christ. All will come to repentance and faith in Christ. He is the only way. If anyone wants to "live like the devil", I can assure you that they are not at present converted and saved. Christ will change us all so that we have His law written on our hearts. We are drawn to Him out of love (not fear of hell) and we are changed from the inside out. When we are converted, we will produce the fruits of the Spirit and will no longer desire to "live like the devil". I have had many people tell me that if they are going to be saved "anyway", that they might as well live it up now. That only shows that their heart is not converted. They have not died to self and been reborn by the Spirit. There is only one way for Salvation and Christ will cause all men to seek it (as for hidden treasures) and find it in Him.

    You said:
    Then of course you are left with a big issue- what about the unpardonable sin ( Mat 12:3132,Heb 6:4 -6)? If what yo believe is true they will be saved anyway and yet remain unforgiven. Do you believe unforgiven sin can stand in the presence of a holy God?


    The unpardonable sin is to sin against the Holy Spirit. It will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come (Kingdom age) but it will be forgiven in the Lake of Fire age. Since when does the "age to come" mean "never" as you believe? All this verse is saying is that if you sin against the Holy Spirit you will not be apart of the church and rule and reign in the Kingdom Age here on earth. But in the following age, it will be forgiven at the "last day" as I spoke of earlier.

    Matt 12:32 Whosoever speakth a word against the son of man shall be forgiven, but whosoever speakth against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven hm, neither in this age, or the age to come.

    May the Lord bless your study,
    Joe in Arkansas


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  5. #25
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    Dear Faith4Bride,
    I looked at your referenced website and must say that I have heard most of those arguments before and they just don't stand up to the light of scripture. The author twists and re-translates verses until they cough up the answer he wants to see. This type of study is an insult to an objective student of scripture and doesn't deserve any further comment.

    Will no one address the triple witness of scripture I presented earlier and explain to everyone why each of those verses can't possibly mean that God's plan is to actually save ALL men as I contend. Please don't say that His plan is to save all men but mankind just won't go along with it. Mankind has no such power to overcome God's will. God is the potter and we are the clay.

    Where are the verses that say that Christ will only save a few men? Where are the verses that say He is not the Savior of the world but of only a very small fraction? Where are the verses that say He will fail to save the world which is why He came in the first place as commissioned by the Father to do? Doesn't anyone see that since the church is called first-fruits of the harvest, that it stands to reason that there will be others to follow, just as the Jewish harvest feasts foreshadow? Where is the love and redeeming value in the Christian hell? Where is the mercy? Scripture says in Revelation that Christ will wipe away all the tears from our eyes - how can He ever wipe away the tears from my eyes if He is torturing my 3 sons in some fabled fire pit for all eternity for no redeeming purpose whatsoever? He will not be able to stop my tears as long as my love ones are burning and suffering. The true God of scripture will have mercy upon them and would even die for them if He has to in order to save them. Oh yeah, He did that already but I guess (according to church tradition) it just wasn't enough. Christ failed to save my sons and now He will wipe away my tears and tell me what??? That everything will be okay for them??? That my sons are suffering for a high purpose and then my heart will suddenly be filled with joy??? Doesn't anyone ever think about how hideous the doctrine of hell is? And you approve and delight in it??? The Christ that revealed Himself to me would never do such a thing. I love the Lord for His goodness, for His love for all men, for His mercy upon us even while we are yet sinners. He is patient, kind, and long suffering for His creation. He simply loves us and will never stop. He is not the monster that the hell doctrine makes him out to be. Which Lord to you know?

    May the Lord bless you,
    Joe in Arkansas

  6. #26
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    Originally Posted by Joe in Arkansas View Post
    You are right that I would say that aion or it's adjective form aionios means age or age-enduring.
    That is not what the Strongs said and not what I said.

    From the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

    G166
    αἰώνιος
    aiōnios
    ahee-o'-nee-os
    From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

    What does a simple Websters Dictionary say about perpetual?

    Perpetual
    PERPET'UAL, a. [L. perpetuus, from perpes, perpetis; per and pes, from a root signifying to pass.]

    1. Never ceasing; continuing forever in future time; destined to be eternal; as a perpetual covenant; a perpetual statute.

    [Literally true with respect to the decrees of the Supreme Being.]

    2. Continuing or continued without intermission; uninterrupted; as a perpetual stream; the perpetual action of the heart and arteries.

    3. Permanent; fixed; not temporary; as a perpetual law or edict; perpetual love or amity, perpetual incense. Exo 30.

    4. Everlasting; endless.

    Destructions are come to a perpetual end. Psa 9.

    5. During the legal dispensation. Exo 29.

    Perpetual curacy, is where all the tithes are appropriated and no vicarage is endowed.

    Perpetual motion, motion that generates a power of continuing itself forever or indefinitely, by means of mechanism or some application of the force of gravity; not yet discovered,and probably impossible.

    Perpetual screw, a screw that acts against the teeth of a wheel and continues its action without end.


    Originally Posted by Joe in Arkansas View Post
    The unpardonable sin is to sin against the Holy Spirit. It will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come (Kingdom age) but it will be forgiven in the Lake of Fire age.
    There is absolutely no scriptural evidence for that.

    Originally Posted by Joe in Arkansas View Post
    Matt 12:32 Whosoever speakth a word against the son of man shall be forgiven, but whosoever speakth against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven hm, neither in this age, or the age to come.
    The Age to come is Christ's return and eternal reign on this earth.

    Trying to retranslate the bible to fit your interpretation can be a dangerous thing. A little knowledge of Greek and Hebrew can be a more dangerous thing. In fact some of this same doctrine you are espousing is common amongst the cult of the Jehovah's Un-witnesses ( no hell). Let us see what the bible translators have to say about this. These are men who read and wrote both Greek and Hebrew as easily as you and I would read a newspaper:

    2Th 1:9

    (ASV) who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

    (Bishops) Which shalbe punisshed with euerlastyng dampnation, from the presence of the Lorde, & fro the glorie of his power:

    (CEV) Their punishment will be eternal destruction, and they will be kept far from the presence of our Lord and his glorious strength.

    (Darby) who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might,

    (DRB) Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his power:

    (EMTV) These shall pay a penalty--eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might,

    (ESV) They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

    (Geneva) Which shall be punished with euerlasting perdition, from the presence of the Lord, & from the glory of his power,

    (GNB) They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and from his glorious might

    (GW) They will pay the penalty by being destroyed forever, by being separated from the Lord's presence and from his glorious power.

    (ISV) Such people will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction by being separated from the Lord's presence and from his glorious power

    (KJV) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    (KJV+) WhoG3748 shall be punishedG5099 G1349 with everlastingG166 destructionG3639 fromG575 the presenceG4383 of theG3588 Lord,G2962 andG2532 fromG575 theG3588 gloryG1391 of hisG846 power;G2479

    (KJV-1611) Who shalbe punished with euerlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power:

    (KJVA) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    (LITV) who will pay the penalty: everlasting destruction from the face of the Lord, "and from the glory of His strength," Isa. 2:19

    (MKJV) who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

    (Murdock) For these will be recompensed with the judgment of eternal destruction, from the presence of our Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    (RV) who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

    (Webster) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    (WNT) They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, being banished from the presence of the Lord and from His glorious majesty,

    That is a total of 21 groups of bible translators who completely disagree with your interpretation and doctrine so I think I will have to stick with them on this.



    Last edited by Boanerges; 10-23-10 at 07:45 PM.
    Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

  7. #27
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    The idea that the early chruch did not believe in eternal hell is incorrect at best.

    From the Interactive Bible website:

    • 150 AD Second Clement "If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment" (Second Clement 5:5).
    • 150 AD Second Clement "But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, 'There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!'" (Second Clement , 17:7).
    • 150 AD Justin Martyr: "No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments" (First Apology 12).
    • 150 AD Justin Martyr: "We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire" (First Apology, 21).
    • 150 AD Justin Martyr: "[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (First Apology, 52).

      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: and we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the wicked in the same bodies united again to their spirits which are now to undergo everlasting punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years. And if any one say that this is incredible or impossible, this error of ours is one which concerns ourselves only, and no other person, so long as you cannot convict us of doing any harm. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. VIII)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: And hell is a place where those are to be punished who have lived wickedly, and who do not believe that those things which God has taught us by Christ will come to pass. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. XIX)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: while we affirm that the souls of the wicked, being endowed with sensation even after death, are punished, and that those of the good being delivered from punishment spend a blessed existence, we shall seem to say the same things as the poets and philosophers. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. XX)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: For among us the prince of the wicked spirits is called the serpent, and Satan, and the devil, as you can learn by looking into our writings. And that he would be sent into the fire with his host, and the men who follow him, and would be punished for an endless duration, Christ foretold. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. XXVIII)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: Nor can the devils persuade men that there will be no conflagration for the punishment of the wicked; as they were unable to effect that Christ should be hidden after He came. But if they believe that there is nothing after death, but declare that those who die pass into insensibility, then they become our benefactors when they set us free from sufferings and necessities of this life, and prove themselves to be wicked, and inhuman, and bigoted. For they kill us with no intention of delivering us, but cut us off that we may be deprived of life and pleasure. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. LVII)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: the unjust and intemperate shall be punished in eternal fire. (The Second Apology of Justin For The Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, Chap. I)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: assuring him that there shall be punishment in eternal fire inflicted upon those who do not live temperately and conformably to right reason. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chap. II)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: And they, having been shut up in eternal fire, shall suffer their just punishment and penalty. For if they are even now overthrown by men through the name of Jesus Christ, this is an intimation of the punishment in eternal fire which is to be inflicted on themselves and those who serve them. For thus did both all the prophets foretell, and our own teacher Jesus teach. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, Chap. VIII)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: And that no one may say what is said by those who are deemed philosophers, that our assertions that the wicked are punished in eternal fire are big words and bugbears, and that we wish men to live virtuously through fear, and not because such a life is good and pleasant; I will briefly reply to this, that if this be not so, God does not exist; or, if He exists, He cares not for men, and neither virtue nor vice is anything, and as we said before, lawgivers unjustly punish those who transgress good commandments. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, Chap. IX)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: "Trypho," says he, "I am called; and I am a Hebrew of the circumcision,.They affirm that the same things shall always happen; and, further, that I and you shall again live in like manner, having become neither better men nor worse. But there are some others, who, having supposed the soul to be immortal and immaterial, believe that though they have committed evil they will not suffer punishment (for that which is immaterial is insensible), and that the soul, in consequence of its immortality, needs nothing from God." (Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, A Jew, Chap. I)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: when some are sent to be punished unceasingly into judgment and condemnation of fire; but others shall exist in freedom from suffering, from corruption, and from grief, and in immortality." (Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr with Trypho, A Jew, Chap. XLV)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: Here Plato seems to me to have learnt from the prophets not only the doctrine of the judgment, but also of the resurrection, which the Greeks refuse to believe. For his saying that the soul is judged along with the body, proves nothing more clearly than that he believed the doctrine of the resurrection. Since how could Ardiaeus and the rest have undergone such punishment in Hades, had they left on earth the body, with its head, hands, feet and skin? For certainly they will never say that the soul has a head and hands, and feet and skin. But Plato, having fallen in with the testimonies of the prophets in Egypt, and having accepted what they teach concerning the resurrection of the body, teaches that the soul is judged in company with the body. (Justin's Hortatory Address To The Greeks, Chap. XXVII)

    • 155 AD The Martyrdom of Polycarp "Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3).
    • 160 AD Mathetes "When you know what is the true life, that of heaven; when you despise the merely apparent death, which is temporal; when you fear the death which is real, and which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the everlasting fire, the fire which will punish even to the end those who are delivered to it, then you will condemn the deceit and error of the world" (Letter to Diognetus 10:7).
    • 177 AD Athenagoras "[W]e [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated" (Plea for the Christians 31).
    • 181 AD Theophilus of Antioch "Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God.. [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things.. For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire" (To Autolycus 1:14).
    • 189 AD Irenaeus of Lyons "[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire" (Against Heresies 1:10:1).
    • 189 AD Irenaeus of Lyons "The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming ... [I]t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, 'Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,' they will be damned forever" (Against Heresies, 4:28:2).
    • 197 AD Tertullian "After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending" (Apology 18:3).
    • 197 AD Tertullian "Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshippers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility" (Apology , 44:12-13).
    • 212 AD Hippolytus "Standing before [Christ's] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: 'Just if your judgment!' And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3).
    • 226 AD Minucius Felix "I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there either measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them" (Octavius 34:12-5:3).
    • 250 AD Ignatius of Antioch "Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death. how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God. for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2).
    • 252 AD Cyprian of Carthage "An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will thee be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life" (To Demetrian 24).
    • 252 AD Cyprian of Carthage "Oh, what a day that will be, and how great when it comes, dearest brethren! When the Lord ... [will] cast into hell evildoers and will condemn our persecutors to the eternal fire and to punishing flame!" (Letters 58:10).
    • 307 AD Lactantius "[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding for ever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when He shall have judged the righteous, He will also try them with fire" (Divine Institutes 7:21).
    Last edited by Boanerges; 10-23-10 at 08:00 PM.
    Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

  8. #28
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    Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
    That is not what the Strongs said and not what I said.

    From the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

    G166
    αἰώνιος
    aiōnios
    ahee-o'-nee-os
    From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

    What does a simple Websters Dictionary say about perpetual?

    Perpetual
    PERPET'UAL, a. [L. perpetuus, from perpes, perpetis; per and pes, from a root signifying to pass.]

    1. Never ceasing; continuing forever in future time; destined to be eternal; as a perpetual covenant; a perpetual statute.

    [Literally true with respect to the decrees of the Supreme Being.]

    2. Continuing or continued without intermission; uninterrupted; as a perpetual stream; the perpetual action of the heart and arteries.

    3. Permanent; fixed; not temporary; as a perpetual law or edict; perpetual love or amity, perpetual incense. Exo 30.

    4. Everlasting; endless.

    Destructions are come to a perpetual end. Psa 9.

    5. During the legal dispensation. Exo 29.

    Perpetual curacy, is where all the tithes are appropriated and no vicarage is endowed.

    Perpetual motion, motion that generates a power of continuing itself forever or indefinitely, by means of mechanism or some application of the force of gravity; not yet discovered,and probably impossible.

    Perpetual screw, a screw that acts against the teeth of a wheel and continues its action without end.



    There is absolutely no scriptural evidence for that.


    The Age to come is Christ's return and eternal reign on this earth.

    Trying to retranslate the bible to fit your interpretation can be a dangerous thing. A little knowledge of Greek and Hebrew can be a more dangerous thing. In fact some of this same doctrine you are espousing is common amongst the cult of the Jehovah's Un-witnesses ( no hell). Let us see what the bible translators have to say about this. These are men who read and wrote both Greek and Hebrew as easily as you and I would read a newspaper:

    2Th 1:9

    (ASV) who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

    (Bishops) Which shalbe punisshed with euerlastyng dampnation, from the presence of the Lorde, & fro the glorie of his power:

    (CEV) Their punishment will be eternal destruction, and they will be kept far from the presence of our Lord and his glorious strength.

    (Darby) who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might,

    (DRB) Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his power:

    (EMTV) These shall pay a penalty--eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might,

    (ESV) They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

    (Geneva) Which shall be punished with euerlasting perdition, from the presence of the Lord, & from the glory of his power,

    (GNB) They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and from his glorious might

    (GW) They will pay the penalty by being destroyed forever, by being separated from the Lord's presence and from his glorious power.

    (ISV) Such people will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction by being separated from the Lord's presence and from his glorious power

    (KJV) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    (KJV+) WhoG3748 shall be punishedG5099 G1349 with everlastingG166 destructionG3639 fromG575 the presenceG4383 of theG3588 Lord,G2962 andG2532 fromG575 theG3588 gloryG1391 of hisG846 power;G2479

    (KJV-1611) Who shalbe punished with euerlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power:

    (KJVA) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    (LITV) who will pay the penalty: everlasting destruction from the face of the Lord, "and from the glory of His strength," Isa. 2:19

    (MKJV) who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

    (Murdock) For these will be recompensed with the judgment of eternal destruction, from the presence of our Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    (RV) who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

    (Webster) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    (WNT) They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, being banished from the presence of the Lord and from His glorious majesty,

    That is a total of 21 groups of bible translators who completely disagree with your interpretation and doctrine so I think I will have to stick with them on this.



    Dear Boanerges,
    I have never said that the lake of fire will not be a place of judgment - it will be. It will be mentally tormenting but it will not be a place of physical torture or of actual fire. Fire is merely is a symbol for judgment. God uses fire for judgment because fire refines and purifies. God's judgment is not like man's judgment. God judges people in love and for there own good. The book of Revelation was symbolized to John. Everything he was shown was a symbol - the book is not literal. When each person's judgment of fire is complete, they will have "learned righteousness" and then find Christ. They are only judged until they have "paid the last penny". Judgment for them is not eternal or everlasting. As I said before, aion and all its forms mean a period of time that as a beginning and an end, i.e. an age. This is completely consistent with scripture. The translators added the meaning of everlasting to aion and its forms to make it consistent with their hell doctrine. It doesn't take a doctorate to research this one Greek word and learn the truth behind the changes to its definition. I am not impressed by your long list of translations that support the hell doctrine. Over the centuries, if a scholar wanted to be accepted by the mainstream church, then they had to support its doctrines. I would expect nothing less of them.

    Also, you said that Christ's reign on earth is eternal. He reigns for two ages - the Kingdom age (current earth) and then the Lake of Fire age (new earth). At the end of the Lake of Fire age, He turns the Kingdom over to the Father and His reign ends because all things have been restored - all enemies are under His feet. This scripture below describes the very end of the final age. It goes further out into the future than does the book of Revelation. It clearly shows us that Christ's reign only lasts until His mission to save the world is complete and death is no more.


    1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation (the last day), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    If there are still unsaved persons at this point, then God could not be "all in all". The above verses describe the end to the wonderful and glorious work of God that has produced many sons & daughters for Him. The hell doctrine tries to make it into a nightmare that never ends for most of mankind, where people live in a dark and miserable world, completely void of love and hope. And according to the doctrine, all a person has to do to receive this future is to be unlucky enough to have died without hearing about Christ and accepting Him. What about the people who lived before Christ came? What about those who lived without hearing about Christ? What about those who died young and were not mature enough to make a decision for Christ? That future doesn't sound very fair for them. God loves each and very one of us all but He has blessed us all differently to suit His on purposes. But in the end, we will all be in the Kingdom of God. If you can't see this future in the scriptures I have posted, then showing you additional scriptures will not help either. God has you where you are and that is where you should be. My desire to share with you what I have been shown is born out of love for you and all who would read what I have written. God's plan for all of us will unfold in due time and we will be brothers in Christ at some future day. I wish you well on your journey.

    May the Lord bless you,
    Joe in Arkansas

  9. #29
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    Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
    The idea that the early chruch did not believe in eternal hell is incorrect at best.

    From the Interactive Bible website:

    • 150 AD Second Clement "If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment" (Second Clement 5:5).
    • 150 AD Second Clement "But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, 'There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!'" (Second Clement , 17:7).
    • 150 AD Justin Martyr: "No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments" (First Apology 12).
    • 150 AD Justin Martyr: "We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire" (First Apology, 21).
    • 150 AD Justin Martyr: "[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (First Apology, 52).

      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: and we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the wicked in the same bodies united again to their spirits which are now to undergo everlasting punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years. And if any one say that this is incredible or impossible, this error of ours is one which concerns ourselves only, and no other person, so long as you cannot convict us of doing any harm. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. VIII)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: And hell is a place where those are to be punished who have lived wickedly, and who do not believe that those things which God has taught us by Christ will come to pass. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. XIX)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: while we affirm that the souls of the wicked, being endowed with sensation even after death, are punished, and that those of the good being delivered from punishment spend a blessed existence, we shall seem to say the same things as the poets and philosophers. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. XX)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: For among us the prince of the wicked spirits is called the serpent, and Satan, and the devil, as you can learn by looking into our writings. And that he would be sent into the fire with his host, and the men who follow him, and would be punished for an endless duration, Christ foretold. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. XXVIII)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: Nor can the devils persuade men that there will be no conflagration for the punishment of the wicked; as they were unable to effect that Christ should be hidden after He came. But if they believe that there is nothing after death, but declare that those who die pass into insensibility, then they become our benefactors when they set us free from sufferings and necessities of this life, and prove themselves to be wicked, and inhuman, and bigoted. For they kill us with no intention of delivering us, but cut us off that we may be deprived of life and pleasure. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. LVII)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: the unjust and intemperate shall be punished in eternal fire. (The Second Apology of Justin For The Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, Chap. I)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: assuring him that there shall be punishment in eternal fire inflicted upon those who do not live temperately and conformably to right reason. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chap. II)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: And they, having been shut up in eternal fire, shall suffer their just punishment and penalty. For if they are even now overthrown by men through the name of Jesus Christ, this is an intimation of the punishment in eternal fire which is to be inflicted on themselves and those who serve them. For thus did both all the prophets foretell, and our own teacher Jesus teach. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, Chap. VIII)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: And that no one may say what is said by those who are deemed philosophers, that our assertions that the wicked are punished in eternal fire are big words and bugbears, and that we wish men to live virtuously through fear, and not because such a life is good and pleasant; I will briefly reply to this, that if this be not so, God does not exist; or, if He exists, He cares not for men, and neither virtue nor vice is anything, and as we said before, lawgivers unjustly punish those who transgress good commandments. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, Chap. IX)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: "Trypho," says he, "I am called; and I am a Hebrew of the circumcision,.They affirm that the same things shall always happen; and, further, that I and you shall again live in like manner, having become neither better men nor worse. But there are some others, who, having supposed the soul to be immortal and immaterial, believe that though they have committed evil they will not suffer punishment (for that which is immaterial is insensible), and that the soul, in consequence of its immortality, needs nothing from God." (Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, A Jew, Chap. I)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: when some are sent to be punished unceasingly into judgment and condemnation of fire; but others shall exist in freedom from suffering, from corruption, and from grief, and in immortality." (Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr with Trypho, A Jew, Chap. XLV)
      • 150 AD Justin Martyr: Here Plato seems to me to have learnt from the prophets not only the doctrine of the judgment, but also of the resurrection, which the Greeks refuse to believe. For his saying that the soul is judged along with the body, proves nothing more clearly than that he believed the doctrine of the resurrection. Since how could Ardiaeus and the rest have undergone such punishment in Hades, had they left on earth the body, with its head, hands, feet and skin? For certainly they will never say that the soul has a head and hands, and feet and skin. But Plato, having fallen in with the testimonies of the prophets in Egypt, and having accepted what they teach concerning the resurrection of the body, teaches that the soul is judged in company with the body. (Justin's Hortatory Address To The Greeks, Chap. XXVII)

    • 155 AD The Martyrdom of Polycarp "Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3).
    • 160 AD Mathetes "When you know what is the true life, that of heaven; when you despise the merely apparent death, which is temporal; when you fear the death which is real, and which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the everlasting fire, the fire which will punish even to the end those who are delivered to it, then you will condemn the deceit and error of the world" (Letter to Diognetus 10:7).
    • 177 AD Athenagoras "[W]e [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated" (Plea for the Christians 31).
    • 181 AD Theophilus of Antioch "Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God.. [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things.. For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire" (To Autolycus 1:14).
    • 189 AD Irenaeus of Lyons "[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire" (Against Heresies 1:10:1).
    • 189 AD Irenaeus of Lyons "The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming ... [I]t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, 'Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,' they will be damned forever" (Against Heresies, 4:28:2).
    • 197 AD Tertullian "After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending" (Apology 18:3).
    • 197 AD Tertullian "Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshippers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility" (Apology , 44:12-13).
    • 212 AD Hippolytus "Standing before [Christ's] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: 'Just if your judgment!' And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3).
    • 226 AD Minucius Felix "I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there either measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them" (Octavius 34:12-5:3).
    • 250 AD Ignatius of Antioch "Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death. how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God. for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2).
    • 252 AD Cyprian of Carthage "An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will thee be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life" (To Demetrian 24).
    • 252 AD Cyprian of Carthage "Oh, what a day that will be, and how great when it comes, dearest brethren! When the Lord ... [will] cast into hell evildoers and will condemn our persecutors to the eternal fire and to punishing flame!" (Letters 58:10).
    • 307 AD Lactantius "[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding for ever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when He shall have judged the righteous, He will also try them with fire" (Divine Institutes 7:21).
    Yes, I agree that it did not take long for the wolves to come into the church. Paul prophesied that the corruption of the churches he started would happen quickly. However, there were plenty of early church writers who held on to Paul's teaching of salvation for all. But the corruption of the church quickly took over the mainstream of Christians and the doctrines of scripture were perverted or replaced by newly created doctrines. And I am sad to say, that those same false doctrines are still mainstream today. But that is in accordance with God's plan. Just as the Jews quickly corrupted the teachings of the old testament, so called Christians quickly corrupted the teachings of Christ. After all, this is Satan's world and He deceives the entire world (except for God's Elect). Satan even rules in the harlot church system of today (2Cor 11:14-15). Even so, this is still all in accordance with God's will.

    May the Lord bless you,
    Joe in Arkansas

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    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.


    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


    Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


    Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


    Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



    Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


    Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.


    Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

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