the Lord loves everyone, and wishes that none should perish. forgive me for posting so hastily, bless you all : )

From the inception of the rebellion in the Garden of Eden (Gen 3:1-6), our Creator, Jehovah God, recognized that from that moment onward, that two distinct groups of people would arise (1) those who firmly support God's rulership as the "woman's seed" and (2) those who throw their support for the "serpent", becoming his "seed".(Gen 3:15)

The apostle Peter wrote, after having showed that the vast majority suffered "destruction" when (the earth ) was deluged with water", then said that "Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."(2 Pet 3:9)

However, Peter now says, that just as at the global flood that came "as a thief " and wiped almost all of mankind in 2370 B.C.E., that in the near future "Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens (human political governments and institutions that people "look" up to) will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements (human philosophy and other fundamental things that gives the world its ungodly characteristics, reflecting the mind of Satan) being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth (wicked human society that look to the political "heavens") and the works in it will be discovered (or "found out" as being in opposition to Jehovah)."(2 Pet 3:10)

Those who mocked Noah at the time of the global flood were deemed as incorrigible, worthy of destruction. These proved to be of the "serpent's seed", following Satan. On the other hand, Noah and his family gave evidence of genuine faith in Jehovah God by obediently building the ark over possibly 40 to 50 years until the day came when "all the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened."(Gen 7:11)

Thus, God's love is not unconditional, but rather has conditions attached to it. Noah obeyed and "did just so" as Jehovah told him.(Gen 6:22) Jesus, quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5, said: "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ "(Matt 22:37)

Jesus further said to "go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:13, 14) The vast majority today, just as during Noah's day, have rejected God's direction of guidance (in great part because the religious leaders have caused their "flock" to stray, Jer 10:21; 23:1)

Thus, there is a wide chasm between those who serve Jehovah God and those who do not, between the "few" that will ' find life' and the "many" that will be wiped off the face of the earth.(Prov 2:21, 22) In the near future, when the "great day of God the Almighty" has arrived (Rev 16:14), only those "marked for survival" will retain life.(Eze 9)

Jaareshiah,

I really dislike reading the New World Translation (Jehovah's witnesses bible) passages you post.

Tiz true...


Were you aware that "Jehovah" is comprised of letters from one word (Yahweh) and the vowels of another (Adoni)?
(Historical fact)


Anyway.. God loves us all. John 3:16 is clear, Jesus died on the cross for "whosoever" and that includes all of us. For we all are sinners in need of God's grace.

Originally Posted by Strypes

Jaareshiah,

I really dislike reading the New World Translation (Jehovah's witnesses bible) passages you post.

Tiz true...


Were you aware that "Jehovah" is comprised of letters from one word (Yahweh) and the vowels of another (Adoni)?
(Historical fact)


Anyway.. God loves us all. John 3:16 is clear, Jesus died on the cross for "whosoever" and that includes all of us. For we all are sinners in need of God's grace.

Are you aware that all the personal names in the Hebrew Scriptures, commonly called the Old Testament, are possibly not accurate, due to ancient Hebrew having no vowels, but only 22 consonants ? The reader had to supply the vowel sounds from his knowledge of the language. Hebrew writing was like an abbreviated text, as for example when a black basalt stone was found near the city of ancient Dan in northern Galilee in 1993, with the letters "bytdwd", that was unveiled as meaning "House of David". (Biblical Archaeology Review, March/April 1994)

Thus, such ones as Jeremiah, Joseph, Jethro, etc are not real Hebrew names but are Latin, just as the name Jesus is Latin (as is Jehovah) of the Greek I·e·sous´and corresponds to the Hebrew Ye·shu´a‛ or Yehoh·shu´a‛ that means “Jehovah Is Salvation”.

Rather than sticking with the OP (original post), you go out of your way to attack Jehovah's Witnesses and not provide any meaningful, detailed Scriptural information. Please stick with the OP.

Originally Posted by Jaareshiah

Thus, God's love is not unconditional, but rather has conditions attached to it. Noah obeyed and "did just so" as Jehovah told him.(Gen 6:22) Jesus, quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5, said: "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ "(Matt 22:37)

Is it really true that God does not love sinners, who have not yet repented that first time? Did Jesus hate Judas? Did he not treat Judas the same as the other 11 original apostles? Even when it becomes clear as we read through the gospels that Jesus knews what Judas was going to do, was Jesus not filled with compassion and, yes, love toward this man who Jesus knew was going to betray him? Even if you do not believe that Jesus is God, you surely cannot deny that Jesus did the Father's (the One you call Jehovah God) will in everything... even when it would result in pain and suffering for himself (Matt 26:39-45).

Did not God love people and provide for them the basic essentials of natural life, even though many of them would never acknowledge Him? He loved them. They were His creations, His creatures. If He did not love them then what does this verse mean?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

This doesn't mean that He loved the planet earth on which men dwell. Doesn't it mean rather that God loved the vessels, which you and I are. We, you and I, each of us, are self-contained little worlds given the option of going God's Way, or of going our own ways. He loves us, but the reward of eternal Life (real Life, not the place of condemnation of a mortal man who does not know God) is for those who choose Him rather than themselves. God wants us to choose Him, but He wants us to decide to do so when we have another choice. He really does loves us before we have made such a choice.

Originally Posted by amadeus2

Is it really true that God does not love sinners, who have not yet repented that first time? Did Jesus hate Judas? Did he not treat Judas the same as the other 11 original apostles? Even when it becomes clear as we read through the gospels that Jesus knews what Judas was going to do, was Jesus not filled with compassion and, yes, love toward this man who Jesus knew was going to betray him? Even if you do not believe that Jesus is God, you surely cannot deny that Jesus did the Father's (the One you call Jehovah God) will in everything... even when it would result in pain and suffering for himself (Matt 26:39-45).

Did not God love people and provide for them the basic essentials of natural life, even though many of them would never acknowledge Him? He loved them. They were His creations, His creatures. If He did not love them then what does this verse mean?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

This doesn't mean that He loved the planet earth on which men dwell. Doesn't it mean rather that God loved the vessels, which you and I are. We, you and I, each of us, are self-contained little worlds given the option of going God's Way, or of going our own ways. He loves us, but the reward of eternal Life (real Life, not the place of condemnation of a mortal man who does not know God) is for those who choose Him rather than themselves. God wants us to choose Him, but He wants us to decide to do so when we have another choice. He really does loves us before we have made such a choice.

Jesus said that "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."(John 3:16) He further contrasted individuals who assisted his "brothers" with those who failed in doing this, saying that "these (not assisting Jesus spiritual brothers) will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones (who assisted Jesus spiritual brothers) into everlasting life.”(Matt 25:46) Hence, only those who exercise faith in Jehovah God, are given everlasting life.

Judas Iscariot failed in his love for God and his Son, Jesus, treasuring money as more important.(John 12:6) Jesus, in prayer to God, called Judas Iscariot "the son of destruction".(John 17:12) Jehovah's love is therefore not unconditional, but requires what Jesus said in quoting from Deuteronomy 6:4, 5: "The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ "(Mark 12:29, 30)

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said that "few" would gain life, whereas the vast majority would perish in the near future.(Matt 7:13, 14) Most are unwilling to measure up to Jehovah's holy standards, setting their standards of what they feel is right or wrong, just as Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden, costing them their life.(Gen 3:1-6)

Because the Jews failed to measure up to God's laws he established as their Creator, he destroyed the 10 tribe kingdom of Israel in 740 B.C.E. and then 133 years later, the 2 tribe kingdom of Judah in 607 B.C.E.

And then when Jesus was on earth, three days before he was put to death on a torture stake, he looked at Jerusalem as what was once the center of pure worship, now saying: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But you people did not want it. Look! Your house is abandoned to you. For I say to you, you will by no means see me from henceforth until you say (at Ps 118:26), ‘Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s name!’” (Matt 23:37-39)

Jesus, in answering the question "Lord, are those who are being saved few?", says to "exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:23, 24)

Thence, in the near future, at the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" (Rev 16:14), the vast majority of mankind, after having been put to death by Jesus and the heavenly armies (Rev 19:11-16), will become a "feast" to "all the birds that fly in midheaven", called "the great evening meal of God".(Rev 19:17)

These will feast on "the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”(Rev 19:18)

And of the name of God, Jehovah, it is found in the original Hebrew almost 7000 times. Because the churches of Christendom have removed his name from their Bibles, he personally will deal with them, bringing them down to Gehenna.

Originally Posted by Jaareshiah

Are you aware that all the personal names in the Hebrew Scriptures, commonly called the Old Testament, are possibly not accurate, due to ancient Hebrew having no vowels, but only 22 consonants ? The reader had to supply the vowel sounds from his knowledge of the language. Hebrew writing was like an abbreviated text, as for example when a black basalt stone was found near the city of ancient Dan in northern Galilee in 1993, with the letters "bytdwd", that was unveiled as meaning "House of David". (Biblical Archaeology Review, March/April 1994)

Thus, such ones as Jeremiah, Joseph, Jethro, etc are not real Hebrew names but are Latin, just as the name Jesus is Latin (as is Jehovah) of the Greek I·e·sous´and corresponds to the Hebrew Ye·shu´a‛ or Yehoh·shu´a‛ that means “Jehovah Is Salvation”.

Rather than sticking with the OP (original post), you go out of your way to attack Jehovah's Witnesses and not provide any meaningful, detailed Scriptural information. Please stick with the OP.

Did you know that the New World Translation is not available in the Greek language because the people of Greece were picking out the heresies in the Watchtowers not so very well translated bible?

BTW get used to me challenging the false doctrines you are posting on "Talk Jesus". Most here are not aware of the true nature of your mind control cult, but I am.

As for the opening post..

According to Watchtower doctrine, "Jehovah"(the mean spirited tyrant false god of the Jehovah's witnesses) only "approves" of baptized Jehovah's witnesses IN GOOD STANDING in their congregations as determined by judicial committees backed by Bethel who protect pedophiles (27 Million to the girl in California who PROVED IT will come from the world wide work funds which has defended "Jehovah's good name" by funding pedophiles defense attorneys for decades. . As you are on what they consider a site in league with satan, (yep, all Christians are considered in league with satan because the Jehovah's witnesses believe ONLY THEY have the truth and all of us born-agains are of satan's seed)...

That means you are spiritually weak and are in danger of dying at Armageddon. (according to your religion)..

Fear and condemnation are just a few of the mind control tricks they employ to keep the rank and file in line to protect their free labor source for their publishing company.

I am reminded of another Casting Crowns song...

"But the voice of Truth tells me a different story
The voice of Truth says "Do not be afraid"...

1 John 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. 19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother. "

How many of your family are you shunning? How many are shunning you? Are you made to sit on the back row at the Kingdom Hall? Do you shun those that are? Are you seeking the approval of men or just afraid that if you question any of their doctrines your mother will consider you as dead and all the "friends" too?

Link is to a Huffington post article regarding the 28 million dollar (I was off by one million) judgment against the Watchtower.

link was to be given as supporting evidence

Actually, I am not going to post the link as I am not sure if you can post links on this site and the subject matter may be too "adult" for some readers on this site.

Google "Candace Conti" and you can see for yourself what I said is true. There are also videos on youtube too.

7 million was awarded PLUS 21 million in punitive damages. It is the largest single victim award against a religious organization.

The reason we know about it is because Candace Conti could not be bribed and silenced. Most all of the thousands of other pedophile cases litigated by the Watchtower were settled out of court with a gag order provision. The victims are the ones shunned by the Jehovah's Witness Organization (two witness rule) and the pedophiles are protected.

Nightline did a special a few years back. Google Barbara Anderson and you should be able to find it. Additionally there are hundreds of testimonies of the victims of the watchtower on youtube. Most are atheist now due to the spiritual abuse (in addition to the sexual and physical abuse)..

A couple of other questions..

Have you noticed an increase in request for funding the world wide work?

Did you go to the recent convention where they vigorously stressed using only their resources?
(information control: another means your mind control cult uses to suppress it's members)

One final question.. do you have children who go off with other members and if you do, do you know whether or not they are on the pedophile list that is kept secret by the governing body?


1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Back to the main topic of this thread..

Romans 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."