Originally Posted by DutchChristian

i'm against it because we should pray for our enemies

and not cut their ear of in the physical, not even to speak about shooting someone with a gun! if you try to save your life you will lose it, if you life by the sword you will die by the sword.

Matthew 26:52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Maybe you don't have violent crime where you live! And are you serious that if someone in your family was being harmed you wouldn't help them, but would only pray? I think praying for your enemies is more along the lines of for their salvation and that God will have mercy on their souls, like Stephen did while he was being stoned. On the other hand, what Christian in his right mind would only pray while an armed gunman was in his home threatening the lives of his children and wife?

God has hardwired self defense and the strong will to live in all of His creation, from the smallest creature right up to us, and as such it is right and good to preserve and protect life. Guns save innocent lives many times every day; and self-defense is not "living by the sword", it is criminals that live by the sword.

If my wife is being raped or violently mugged by some thug, my duty is to protect and try to save her, even if it costs me my life. Any praying I would be doing would be that my wife comes out unharmed.

"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it". This says to me that praying for, instead of helping a victim is an act of cowardice, an act that says, "this is a dangerous situation that might get me hurt, so you take care of it, God!"So doing nothing but praying is an attempt to save your own life.............pass the buck to God because you might get hurt.

So, as in the passage in James, praying for, or bidding well to someone does nothing if you don't actually do anything about it!

James 2:15-17
15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Using a gun to protect and save the innocent is better than doing nothing but saying, "be thou protected" and walking away.

Originally Posted by Peace Seeker

Maybe you don't have violent crime where you live! And are you serious that if someone in your family was being harmed you wouldn't help them, but would only pray? I think praying for your enemies is more along the lines of for their salvation and that God will have mercy on their souls, like Stephen did while he was being stoned. On the other hand, what Christian in his right mind would only pray while an armed gunman was in his home threatening the lives of his children and wife?

God has hardwired self defense and the strong will to live in all of His creation, from the smallest creature right up to us, and as such it is right and good to preserve and protect life. Guns save innocent lives many times every day; and self-defense is not "living by the sword", it is criminals that live by the sword.

If my wife is being raped or violently mugged by some thug, my duty is to protect and try to save her, even if it costs me my life. Any praying I would be doing would be that my wife comes out unharmed.

"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it". This says to me that praying for, instead of helping a victim is an act of cowardice, an act that says, "this is a dangerous situation that might get me hurt, so you take care of it, God!"So doing nothing but praying is an attempt to save your own life.............pass the buck to God because you might get hurt.

So, as in the passage in James, praying for, or bidding well to someone does nothing if you don't actually do anything about it!

James 2:15-17
15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Using a gun to protect and save the innocent is better than doing nothing but saying, "be thou protected" and walking away.

Where is your faith?

your gun won't help you only GOD Can Help you! God Can prevent any armed robber from bothering your house in the first place!

Originally Posted by fallen

And should they be used against others to defend yourself. If you are a police officer how does that fit in with your Christian Ideals. Do you use them to hunt or for fun or protection. If you own one why do you have it or them?

I refused to take part in a shooting range because deep down I felt it was wrong as a Christian. I would like other opinions on this please. Maybe I am being wrong in my assumptions. Yet I know Thou shalt not kill resonates within me. Guns are made for killing. If as Christians you have a gun what justification do you have in owning one?

Thanks in advance

I would feel so insecure were the folks around me carrying 'guns' Dear Lord.

I would question if these 'guns' were carried regularly...or for shooting occasions?

Have to put in my couple o' cents here. I have kids and my husband is a truck driver which means he is not home very often. If it ever came down to it, YES, I would shoot an intruder...I have two almost grown boys (who could probably handle their own) and a 10 year-old. Doesn't matter though, I would risk everything if ever their lives were put in danger due to a reckless individual and his need to reek havoc in peoples lives.

Originally Posted by DutchChristian

Where is your faith?

your gun won't help you only GOD Can Help you! God Can prevent any armed robber from bothering your house in the first place!

Whoa!! Where is his faith?!! Its in action. Its NOT faith to sit on your hands and do nothing. Love protects. Its not love to watch your family get killed or hurt and do nothing but watch. Or did you forget?

Faith worketh by love.
Faith without works is dead (not faith)

Actually this is another rabbit trail. If you knew GOD you would know that there is a time to be violent and a time for peace. GOD HIMSELF is not a lover of violence but has many times in the past said "Kill them all, their men women children camels cattle sheep and so on. There must always be a reason for the violence and protecting our loved ones is such a time. Read the WORD!!

This talk of Christian ideals indeed!! What does the WORD say?

Originally Posted by DutchChristian

Where is your faith?

your gun won't help you only GOD Can Help you! God Can prevent any armed robber from bothering your house in the first place!

So all the millions of gun owners are wrong and you're right?

And do you do absolutely nothing about anything in your life but instead wait for and expect God to do it all for you? You just pray about everything and do nothing? If someone is hungry do you feed him or pray for him? If someone is being violently assaulted should you help him or just pray for him while he is dying? And I think you missed one point about firearms, that in many cases being armed is a deterrent to crime in the first place. And in a lot of cases pulling out a firearm is enough to stop a crime in progress, with no need to actually fire the weapon, if that's what you have an aversion to.

Regarding "where is your faith?" : do you lock your car doors/house doors and windows?; do you have a smoke alarm in your home?; do you have first aid supplies in your home for when you cut yourself, etc.?
Do you put sunscreen on in the summer? If you have young kids, do you hold their hands when you're crossing a busy street? I hope you get my point!

You see, if you answered yes to any of these your reasons for doing any of those things are no different than the reasons the gun owner has for being armed. There are a million things we do every day to protect ourselves, but you think having a gun is somehow being unfaithful.

Where the people are unarmed there is tyranny and helplessness. And Ecclesiastes says there is a time for everything.............

Originally Posted by Peace Seeker

So all the millions of gun owners are wrong and you're right?

And do you do absolutely nothing about anything in your life but instead wait for and expect God to do it all for you? You just pray about everything and do nothing? If someone is hungry do you feed him or pray for him? If someone is being violently assaulted should you help him or just pray for him while he is dying? And I think you missed one point about firearms, that in many cases being armed is a deterrent to crime in the first place. And in a lot of cases pulling out a firearm is enough to stop a crime in progress, with no need to actually fire the weapon, if that's what you have an aversion to.

Regarding "where is your faith?" : do you lock your car doors/house doors and windows?; do you have a smoke alarm in your home?; do you have first aid supplies in your home for when you cut yourself, etc.?
Do you put sunscreen on in the summer? If you have young kids, do you hold their hands when you're crossing a busy street? I hope you get my point!

You see, if you answered yes to any of these your reasons for doing any of those things are no different than the reasons the gun owner has for being armed. There are a million things we do every day to protect ourselves, but you think having a gun is somehow being unfaithful.

Where the people are unarmed there is tyranny and helplessness. And Ecclesiastes says there is a time for everything.............

Ahh I see now. DutchChristian is a baby Christian. He's still in love with all the world. We'll let him get some WORD into him and grow a little. Then he'll see that he cannot sit on his hands while the world burns around him. He'll see that he has to do in order to serve.

Originally Posted by stephen

I would feel so insecure were the folks around me carrying 'guns' Dear Lord.

I would question if these 'guns' were carried regularly...or for shooting occasions?

About feeling insecure around gun-carriers, for me the important issue wouldn't be the guns but the type of people carrying them. People of good character aren't trigger-happy or wont to do crime or harm to someone for no reason, like criminal types are. So rather than worry about law-abiding gun-owners, if I was to worry about something it would be being unarmed and defenseless in an immoral and lawless society run amok.

The underlying argument for gun control seems to be that the availability of guns causes crime. By extension, the availability of any weapon would have to be viewed as a cause of crime. What does scripture say about such a view?

Perhaps we should start at the beginning, or at least very close to the beginning—in Genesis 4. In this chapter, we read about the first murder. Cain had offered an unacceptable sacrifice and Cain was upset that God insisted that he do the right thing. In other words, Cain was peeved that he could not do his own thing.

Cain decided to kill his brother rather than get right with God. There were no guns available, although there may well have been a knife. Whether it was a knife or a rock, scripture does not say. The point is, the evil in Cain’s heart was the cause of the murder, not the availability of the murder weapon.

God’s response was not to ban rocks or knives, or whatever, but to banish the murderer (or institute capital punishment - Genesis 9:5-6). God never said a word about banning weapons.

Many people, Christians included, assume that Christ taught pacifism. They cite Matthew 5:38-39 for their proof. In this verse Christ said:

Matthew 5:38-39 KJV, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

We do not believe Christ was teaching to "turn the other cheek" in virtually all circumstances. Even Christ did not literally turn the other cheek when smitten by a member of the Sanhedrin (John 18:22-23), or when struck on the face by the palms of the Roman guards (Matthew 26:67-68, Mark 14:65, Luke 22:64).

The Sermon on the Mount, from which this passage is taken, deals with righteous personal conduct. In our passage, Christ is clearing up a confusion that had led people to think that conduct proper for the government—that is, taking vengeance—was also proper for an individual. The principle taught in the Sermon on the Mount is that bondservants of Christ should not retaliate when insulted or slandered (Romans 12:17-21). Such insults do not threaten a believer's personal safety. The question of rendering insult for insult, however, is a far cry from defending oneself against a mugger, or a woman using the martial arts against a rapist.

Even the choice of words used by Christ indicates that He was addressing a confusion, or a distortion, that was commonplace. Several times in the rest of the Sermon on the Mount, Christ used this same "Ye have heard that it hath been said" figure of speech to straighten out misunderstandings or falsehoods being taught by the religious leaders of the time.

Contrast this to Christ’s use of the phrase "It is written" or "The Scripture saith" when He was appealing to the Scriptures for authority (for example, see Matthew 4 where on three occasions during His temptation by the devil, Christ answered each one of the devil’s lies or misquotes from Scripture with the words: "it is written").

The reference to "an eye for an eye" was taken from Exodus 21:24-25, which deals with how the magistrate must deal with a crime. Namely, the punishment must fit the crime. The religious leaders of Christ’s day had twisted a passage that applied to the government and misused it as a principle of personal revenge.

Scripture distinguishes clearly between the duties of the magistrate (the government) and the duties of an individual. Namely, God has delegated to the magistrate the administration of justice. Individuals have the responsibility of protecting their lives from attackers. Christ was referring to this distinction in the Matthew 5 passage.

Both the Old and New Testaments teach individual self-defense, even if it means taking the assailant’s life in certain circumstances.